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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask what you think about a British government openly declaring that it will break international law?

385 replies

Pepperwort · 10/09/2020 19:50

This is regarding Johnson’s government’s new stated dislike of the Withdrawal agreement, which Johnson turfed May out over, negotiated, and signed.

For those not watching the news (living under rocks as it’s the top headline), the new Internal Market Bill they are presenting has a clause to the effect that any international law or court can be ignored at will. There are severe repercussions for the GFA and NI. The government have openly confirmed they will break the Withdrawal Agreement and any international law they don’t like. The EU has of course objected, and Gove has confirmed the government does not care. Not only could this scupper talks with the EU, but with the US, who have always been broadly supportive of Northern Ireland. It damages our international reputation in general and risks us being seen as a rogue state. This is beyond political posturing, just as it is beyond the old remain/ leave arguments, because we have already left. A former Tory leader and lord has spoken against it.

For voting, let’s say it’s aimed at the government. So YABU - Britain should not start its independent existence as a sovereign state by breaking laws. YANBU - go ahead, international laws are there for the breaking.

OP posts:
chomalungma · 12/09/2020 20:34

WTO isn’t a “deal

We could do an Australian type deal with the EU...

Is that the same as a Brazil type deal?

Which is No Deal

StoneofDestiny · 12/09/2020 20:35

Sounds like a playground and field day for Boris and co bashing!

No, sounds like history being exposed and not hidden. By their own actions they are judged - nobody has to invent anything to reveal Johnson & Co for what they really are.

But nice try at deflection 'let's look over here, not at the real problem'. It's exactly the tactic Johnson used throughout the Brexit 'debate', 'I don't want to answer that, discuss that, or comment on that...let's get Brexit done'.....and repeat.

He is still avoiding media scrutiny - no appearances on debates and refusing to appear on TV to be questioned. Shallow, evasive, untrustworthy and with Cummings pulling his strings.Shameful government where the PM models himself on Trump.

Clavinova · 12/09/2020 20:36

Perhaps he wasn’t a student there when it happened - just a thought.

David Cameron born 9th October 1966.
Jeremy Hunt born 1st November 1966.

VinylDetective · 12/09/2020 20:37

You’ll wait a long time for the Tories to own it @chomalungma. The cardinal rule is it’s always someone else’s fault. “Look what you made me do ...”

Clavinova · 12/09/2020 20:38

StoneofDestiny
No, sounds like history being exposed and not hidden.

Which specific incident has your source linked to Boris Johnson?

VinylDetective · 12/09/2020 20:38

@Clavinova

Perhaps he wasn’t a student there when it happened - just a thought.

David Cameron born 9th October 1966.
Jeremy Hunt born 1st November 1966.

The article didn’t say who was there. You’re desperate, aren’t you?
jasjas1973 · 12/09/2020 20:39

WTO isn't a "deal"

Yes it is... its an Australian deal lol!

Again hard to fathom why so many swallow this BS.

StoneofDestiny · 12/09/2020 20:39

Clavinova

Johnson and Cameron both claim to regret participating in the Bullingdon Club activities - (more like ashamed it was exposed by the press) - don't kid yourself of their innocence in posh vandalism and primitive behaviour.

StoneofDestiny · 12/09/2020 20:42

David Cameron, George Osborne, Jeremy Hunt and Boris Johnson we're all Bullingdon Members - take your pick.

chomalungma · 12/09/2020 20:42

Again hard to fathom why so many swallow this BS

Has anyone actually challenged any Minister on this?
Just to say that Australia does not have a deal with the EU.

What would be funny would be if Australia did a deal with the EU that is far better than the one we did. If we ever did one.

Then ask Johnson about that.

StoneofDestiny · 12/09/2020 20:44

Joint Enterprise 🥂🥂

Clavinova · 12/09/2020 20:46

"Johnson and Cameron both claim to regret participating in the Bullingdon Club activities."

Yes, but the pig story appears to be nonsense and your source fails to specifically link Boris Johnson to any of her anecdotes.

VinylDetective · 12/09/2020 20:49

@Clavinova

"Johnson and Cameron both claim to regret participating in the Bullingdon Club activities."

Yes, but the pig story appears to be nonsense and your source fails to specifically link Boris Johnson to any of her anecdotes.

The pig story appears to be nonsense to you. I’m not convinced. And it’s a fair assumption that if the Bullingdon Club ethos is mindless vandalism most of its members are culpable. Johnson and Cameron have even admitted it.
StoneofDestiny · 12/09/2020 20:55

In 2008, the Bullingdon class of 1987 reunited at the Millbank Tower, Westminster, to raise funds for one of its most illustrious members, Boris Johnson, who at the time was running for Mayor of London. Amongst the assembled group were Sebastian Grigg, chief of UK investment banking at Credit Suisse, along with David Cameron, leader of the Conservative Party and readying for the 2010 general election. Boris’s mayoral campaign was successful, and David Cameron was elected Prime Minister in 2010.

The intimate network of the Bullingdon remains a force in UK politics, as the 2008 meeting demonstrates. Remember the three members who escaped from the police after vandalising a restaurant in 1987? Two of the young men ensconced in shrubbery were Boris Johnson and David Cameron. Mutual indiscretion clearly forges strong bonds, and it is theorised that the club’s arbitrary criminal acts are to ensure that members can be cajoled and blackmailed by one another. Indeed, when Cameron came to assemble his cabinet, he chose as his chancellor George Osborne, another Bullingdon alumnus, and welcomed Boris too in 2015.

Bullingdon connections got Boris into power, and along with Jonathan Ford, a former member and editor of the Financial Times, he was instrumental in Cameron becoming Tory leader and eventually Prime Minister.

Boris has been publically observed to greet other former Bullingdon members with a bellow of ‘Buller, Buller, Buller’ and a laddish embrace and, along with Osborne, is known to have attended Bullingdon events in recent years. Boris is also swift to remind members of their vow of omertà.

Although their Bullingdon past has been fundamental to their rise to power, all three men have tried to distance themselves from the club. Publication of the photo above, and another of the younger Osborne in 1992, was suppressed for as long as possible by the Conservative Party. Cameron’s attempts to play down his involvement with the Bullingdon must be offset with the fact that he prepared for becoming Prime Minister by serving as club president from 1988. Even Boris has publically criticised the club, calling the notorious photo ‘a truly shameful vignette of almost superhuman undergraduate arrogance, toffishness, and twittishness’.

Although Cameron and Osborne have now left politics, there are, at present, two members of the Bullingdon in the Conservative cabinet: Boris, now Foreign Secretary (mind-boggling, given his famous xenophobia), and his younger brother Jo Johnson, the Transport Minister. Jo was in the Bullingdon at the same time as George Osborne, and they remain close friends. Buller-ties, however, are not indissoluble. Boris and Cameron differed on Brexit, with the latter in favour of EU membership, and Boris an outspoken campaigner for the Leave campaign. After the vote, Cameron resigned, leaving Boris to mount an unsuccessful leadership campaign of his own.

jasjas1973 · 12/09/2020 20:59

Has anyone actually challenged any Minister on this?
Just to say that Australia does not have a deal with the EU

Yes i ve heard a Sky reporter ask a govt minister, he huffed and puffed and made out that Australia does indeed have deals with the EU, which the UK would replicate and enhance.

R4's Profile said many Australians are a: glad to have got rid of Abbott and b: can't believe we think he is an expert on trade, Gillard did all the spade work, indeed, there was a well know FB post, during brexit, from Abbott where he stated no country needed FTA's... forgetting that Australia, when he was PM (for just 2 years) had several.

Also said Abbott was Australia's equivalent to Trump.... God help us.

ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia · 12/09/2020 21:00

Gosh I never knew so many here have such insight into a supposedly exclusive and secretive club. Granted many of us are Oxbridge alumni. I personally prefer Camford for obvious reasons as sibling also went to Oxbridge. I did not know (nor guess) any here on this forum were former members of said club? I thought it was male only anyway and supposedly mostly Etonian too. Usual tried and tested Eaton, Oxford, UK PM route. Nice to hear from other like minded types but I guessing we all matriculated and graduated from different colleges and historically from various years. It would be such a blast if any of us "came out" at the usual alumni summer parties and fund raisers etc! And I thought MumsNet is just a toy for light hearted no brain cell required entertainment and amusement!

SabrinaThwaite · 12/09/2020 21:05

I personally prefer Camford for obvious reasons

Absolutely obvious reasons.

Usual tried and tested Eaton, Oxford, UK PM

Eaton, ah yes.

Clavinova · 12/09/2020 21:05

Hard to believe anyone still thinks Brexit is for the benefit of the ordinary Brit.

Take Grimsby for example;

"Grimsby will receive over £3.5m of Government funding, including £2.2m of new investment for the next phase of its landmark Town Deal."

"In addition, the Humber Local Enterprise Partnership (LEP) has awarded £1.3m, provided through the Government’s local growth fund program."

"The investment brings the total commitment of public and private funding to over £90m to deliver targets of over 8,000 new jobs and nearly 10,000 new homes in Grimsby through the UK’s first Town Deal."

www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/grimsby-news/council-reveals-funding-talks-new-3907043

July - "A major regeneration project on Grimsby Docks has received a huge boost with the award of grants worth more than £1 million."

www.business-live.co.uk/commercial-property/smoking-1m-grants-success-focal-18534888

chomalungma · 12/09/2020 21:09

What has that got to do with Brexit?

Was it difficult to invest in places like Grimsby before?

LimeTreeGrove · 12/09/2020 21:10

chomalungma Nothing. It's just a sweetner.

LimeTreeGrove · 12/09/2020 21:11

Sweetener

SabrinaThwaite · 12/09/2020 21:11

July - "A major regeneration project on Grimsby Docks has received a huge boost with the award of grants worth more than £1 million."

The secured pot adds up to £1,074,000 - £647,400 from the National Lottery Heritage Fund, a £300,000 Transformational Project grant from the Architectural Heritage Fund’s Transforming Places Through Heritage programme and a previously awarded £60,000 from both bodies.

Can you explain how Brexit has directly influenced HLF?

jasjas1973 · 12/09/2020 21:13

Yep UK govt's could have invested in the UK's impoverished towns decades ago and many will now lose EU regional funding, which central govt hasn't promised to replace, take Cornwall for example.

You can do better Clav - i'm disappointed.

SabrinaThwaite · 12/09/2020 21:14

I’m interested because if I can shout Brexit then maybe the two HLF applications I’m currently involved in will be no brainers, yes?

VinylDetective · 12/09/2020 21:17

@LimeTreeGrove

Sweetener
Or, as it’s known in the real world, bribery. Just like selling off council housing stock at knockdown prices.
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