‘Fuck the Covid rules.’ Really?

[Yellownotblue]

To all the posters (there have been many) saying they don’t plan to abide by the new rule of 6 - is your attitude specific to Covid, or do you generally don’t care about acting illegally?

For instance would you drink and drive ‘because you have a good reason’?

Or park illegally or drive without a seatbelt?

Would you drop litter on the streets?

I’m genuinely confused by the admission that so many posters see law-abidance as a “nice to have”, rather than some basic standard of life and morality in a society.

I live somewhere where people actually listened to the rules at the beginning and we are now Covid free. Life is 100% normal here with exception of inward travel (you have to isolate)

There's a reason the scientists (not the politicians) decided on 6. No. Scientists present the science. Politicians set the policy. Hopefully at least taking into account the science but also the economy. And whatever else they deem important. However, politicians do like to hide behind ‘the science’ without even publishing it. This is how kids count in the number 6 in England but not in Scotland or Wales. Because of choices made by politicians. And questioning their choices is not immoral when the politicians seem a. Not to abide by the rules themselves personally b. Come out with contradictory messages all the time c. Have not managed to put the one thing in place which would truly make a difference (effective testing and track and trace) c. Give loads of public money to their own friends without any oversight, c. seem to hide behind science rather than explain how they arrived at decisions (anyone seen Merkel explain the limitations of science and how choices were made?) and d. Shift blame to their own citizens who followed their own messaging.

I do understand difficult choices have to be made. And I do abide by the rules set, even if I don’t personally like them, because I can see the bigger picture. But this time, I think there are alternatives like earlier closing times for pubs etc.; like not including kids under 12 in the number 6. And this time I have simply lost trust in the fact their decisions are made for the common good and with competence, and with a balance struck between economy and wellbeing.

A complete year group in Wigan has been told to isolate. www.wigantoday.net/education/year-group-wigan-high-school-sent-home-due-covid-19-2963980

There's a reason the scientists (not the politicians) decided on 6

The scientists would say X will happen with full household lockdown, y with this number, z with that number.

Then behaviour specialists help work out what is actually possible.

I am interested the UK government has included children in the six, for England. This makes it much stricter. Presumably very worried.

The whole thing is a test of control. It’s worked with you.

This.

A more humane approach would be to allow a limited number of visitors to visit, as the risk of them catching coronavirus is less than the social deprivation caused by not letting visitors see the very elderly. agree we are so focused on death we forget what it means to live. To the pp who's dad has been stuck in one room with no touch, no smiles I break for you and him. That's torture, it's inhumane I am so sorry.

@Rainandclouds the majority of Brits did obey the rules bar political advisors and CMOs in fact the government was surprised by the level of compliance. Individuals had no control over the government's decisions not to close airline travel or have an effective quarantine policy, or open up pubs with minimal restrictions.

This is a virus that's very good at spreading itself around. I'm fed up with the implication that if only we'd have been a bit better at lockdown things would be ok. Look at France and Spain, strict lockdown doesn't seem to have helped them much.

@LetMeVent

The whole thing is a test of control. It’s worked with you.

This.

I don't really have much time for conspiracy theories. This sort of paranoia is strange to me.

ShesMadeATwatOfMePam

“You go and live in a tent in the woods then. I'll get back to my normal life.“

Please download and listen to Michael Rosen talking to Emma Barnett about the effects on him of long Covid.

74, yes but hitherto fit, healthy, extremely active and engaged with no underlying health issues. His life is unlikely ever to be normal again. Food for thought.

@rookiemere The lockdown itself I think we got just about right. Locking down a week or two too late combined with the care home fiasco is responsible for arguably the majority of the deaths.

In opening back up, I think the 'get back to the office' policy in England is ridiculous (and not replicated in Scotland and Wales) when people can wfh. The quarantines back from abroad haven't been respected or enforced and there should have been a policy to self isolate children from mixing with others for 7-10 days prior to re-starting school, announced months earlier so people didn't book holidays and go on all kinds of trips.

While there are loads of things that don't seem to make sense, the idea behind the rule is in regulated circumstances where there are Covid secure policies and risk assessments in place ( ie any workplace, education, activity run by a business, licenced venue etc etc) then the risk is mitigated by the policies. It doesn't mean it is safe, it just means it is safer.

When people are meeting in a private or public place without those policies and safeguards in place they are much more likely not to sanitise or wash their hands frequently, and to maintain social distancing.

Any business or institution large or small operating at the moment will tell you they have had to go to great lengths and make great changes to be considered covid secure. That is why they are allowed to continue.

Annabel85 2 weeks quarantine prior to schools starting would be very sensible and logical, unfortunately many people are not playing by the rulebook and contributing to the R number increasing. The talk of 'trade offs' by Chris Whitty are a waste of time as people are coming across as entitled and ignorant to the situation that we are in. Selfishness provails

Your comment about not even one year group being sent home from school is not true. I read thatt a whole school was closed in Harlow, Hertfordshire due to some of the children displaying Covid 19 symptoms.

ChanceChanceChance

If I make up rules for my kids to follow but I don’t follow them myself, can you think of any reason for me doing that? If I tell them how to behave but I don’t follow my own “rules”, what is that other than control?

@LetMeVent

ChanceChanceChance

If I make up rules for my kids to follow but I don’t follow them myself, can you think of any reason for me doing that? If I tell them how to behave but I don’t follow my own “rules”, what is that other than control?

What rules do you mean? I feel like I've missed a bit of the conversation (possible!)

I took the idea behind the new rules was to protect the economy.
So yes we can meet x amount of people in a bar or restaurant as it we need to keep the economy going so the risk is worth taking.
Same idea with work places, schools etc.
There is also measures in place to minimise the risk of infection.
Socialising in homes does not help the economy and is therefore not an acceptable risk. People will not generally social distance so that is where the government must try and stop the spread, even though it will still spread via the other routes.

I live somewhere where people actually listened to the rules at the beginning and we are now Covid free. Life is 100% normal here with exception of inward travel (you have to isolate)
I'd be interested to know did you shut your economy down? In Ireland we did and numbers were so close to being zero but then we opened up and now are up to between 50 to 200 positives a day. How did re opening happen where you are?

@Rainandclouds

I live somewhere where people actually listened to the rules at the beginning and we are now Covid free. Life is 100% normal here with exception of inward travel (you have to isolate)

I wish we lived somewhere where people were smart enough to listen.

Totally agree with the people who say the government have made a mess of this, they absolutely have.

But the people who are saying 'fuck the covid rules' are also part of the problem and will mean this drags on, and on, and on.
The mask refusers, the ones who won't social distance, the ones who are saying don't get tested, the ones who are sending their kids into school when they're under the weather, the ones who are refusing to stick to this rule of 6, you're all just making it worse.
The rule of 6 makes sense to limit social interactions and opportunities to pass it on. It's not great, it's no fun for any of us, but we do need to limit interactions.

Yes the rules are contradictory - the drive to get people back in the office, eating out etc doesn't make sense. Getting kids back in school does make sense but isn't being done safely enough. Fining parents who don't feel safe sending their kids in definitely doesn't make sense.
And of course Dominic Cummings hasn't helped.
But if we all just try and stick to the rules, it will help, and hopefully limit how awful this winter is going to be otherwise.
Feel free to put pressure on the government to make schools and workplaces safer, and leave people be who are happy working from home, too.

I think it is interesting how many young people do not feel the need to respect Covid rules as the dangers ‘don’t apply to them’, and feel that ‘granny’ should isolate until the disease has gone, which could be years.

But what if wealthy taxpayers (many middle aged and elderly) took the same view? No children or use the private school system-avoid or evade the element of tax that pays for the school system, no need for state handouts-evade or avoid the tax element that pays for the social security budget etc etc.

For society to function the less vulnerable need to help the more vulnerable. This applies as much to Covid as to all the other areas of life I have mentioned. Regardless of whether it applies to you, most people believe that you should pay all your taxes and this should not just be voluntary.

Those who want the Covid measures enforced are merely sticking to this same principle.

@larrygrylls

Young people have already given up 6 months of their education, many have lost jobs or cannot get into the employment market, they cannot get treatment for other health issues and they have given up seeing friends and family.

There is no guarantee of a vaccine anytime soon- putting everyone’s lives on hold is not a sustainable measure. The individuals at risk should be given the portion of shielding and funded and supported to do so.

Ecosse,

No.

The current measures are the government’s best attempt to keep Covid to a minimum whilst allowing work to take place and as much leisure as possible (restaurants, pubs, small groups etc).

The measures may need adjusting and some may be wrong but, until we elect a new government, should they not be respected?

I promise you that letting Covid circulate freely would impinge upon your liberty far more, not just the ‘grannies’ that you are happy to put in solitary confinement.

@larrygrylls

I actually don’t have a problem with the new 6 person rules. But we simply cannot have another national lockdown with the economy being destroyed as some are desperate for.

@larrygrylls Very well said.

I have followed all the covid rules, I am a very law abiding person and would never drink and drive.
However I am upset that I can go to work and mix with 200 students everyday but can no longer visit my parents with all.my children. I'm pissed off that my inlaws can have my sil and bil and their 2 dc to visit but not us because we have 5, even though our ds goes to the same school and is in the same yr group bubble as dniece. Hows that fair?
I get the risks, I do, but mental health has also got to be a priority.