‘Fuck the Covid rules.’ Really?

[Yellownotblue]

To all the posters (there have been many) saying they don’t plan to abide by the new rule of 6 - is your attitude specific to Covid, or do you generally don’t care about acting illegally?

For instance would you drink and drive ‘because you have a good reason’?

Or park illegally or drive without a seatbelt?

Would you drop litter on the streets?

I’m genuinely confused by the admission that so many posters see law-abidance as a “nice to have”, rather than some basic standard of life and morality in a society.

All the self righteous outrage only makes me think "fuck it" more. I'm still having 7 for Christmas dinner.

I will follow the rules, but just having laws doesn't always make those laws right. It was for example illegal to read Der Spiegel in East Germany. Not all governments are benevolent. They are made so by the control mechanisms, such as a free press, that exist in liberal democracies. You don't have to agree with everything particularly when it makes no sense, but it's also destabilising for children to see adults breaking rules. I therefore explain to my kids that I don't have to agree with the rules to follow them.

hotcuppatea

If everyone has 8 people instead of 6 people the chances of the virus being spread are increased. You might disagree with the logic, but it is an incontrovertible fact that the more people mixing the greater the transmission. If one person in your household has covid then instead of passing it to 6 people your gathering will pass it to 8. That's only 2 more people right, but it's an increase of 1/3 as many people.

Yes you were allowed to be in contact with more people/be at greater risk for work but this is because the alternative is that you don't work, and I doubt you want that.

Would you prefer a totally consistent approach i,e. preventing you from working/closing schools? Or would you prefer they reduced contact where it is least damaging to do so? And I say 'least' because I know it's not ideal for kids not to have the normal birthday party, its shit for them and they have done nothing to deserve it. But it's surely less bad than them being unable to attend school, or have a parent lose their job.

@roarfeckingroarr

All the self righteous outrage only makes me think "fuck it" more. I'm still having 7 for Christmas dinner.

Hilarious yet so childish

Not outraged but it is infuriating how people are shortsighted

[quote roarfeckingroarr]@TinySleepThief they're still allowed? Ffs[/quote]
Yes protests are still allow. Under the guidance it says who can meet in groups of more than 6.

protests and political activities organised in compliance with COVID-19 secure guidance and subject to strict risk assessments

Of course I'm sure they will all be socially distanced whilst protesting and wearing masks....

You can explain the reason over and still people come in with but why

It’s really is easy to understand

So many bed wetters

I think it should be maximum number of households rather than number of people. With the new rules I can't go to the park with my two kids, my sister and her 3 kids but I can go out for drinks with 5 friends all from different households. It just doesn't make sense.

I'm not going to go to any parties but I will take the kids to the park with my sister, so yes I suppose I will break the rules. I'll use my own common sense.

@user1471500037

So many bed wetters

Such intelligence

Wonder why U.K. is going badly

@MynephewR

I think it should be maximum number of households rather than number of people. With the new rules I can't go to the park with my two kids, my sister and her 3 kids but I can go out for drinks with 5 friends all from different households. It just doesn't make sense.

I'm not going to go to any parties but I will take the kids to the park with my sister, so yes I suppose I will break the rules. I'll use my own common sense.

I think the problem with that there were previously groups of people who all claimed to be from the same household (but weren't) - so it is much easier to enforce if it's a specific number of people. A good example of the inconsiderate ruining things for others.

@Hotcuppatea

My job involves me dealing first hand with the shambles that is government policy making on Covid. I take everything they announce with a pinch of salt and apply critical thinking to it all.

The last 6 months have been a real eye opener for me regarding just how many people want to be told what to do by government and who feel most comfortable when they are projecting their anxieties on to everyone else. The judgement and self righteousness has been sickening at times.

I'll continue to assess my own risk and I invite everyone else to do the same. The risk of any adverse outcome from catching covid for the VAST majority of the population is miniscule. The risk of an adverse outcome from isolating elderly people, shutting down the economy and making people too frightened to go outside is much bigger.

If you want to stay in or not invite your mum to Christmas dinner- your choice. Your decision. I won't comment on it.

For me, there'll be 8 of us. We'll be hugging and kissing and having a lovely time.

So maybe you can answer specifically!

1. How do you calculate your own risk?

1. What RR factors do you use?

1. How do you keep up with local P and R rates?

1. What weighting do you give each individuals personal characteristics, sex, age, ethnicity etc?

1. How do you get a working estimate of the effect of schools, public transport and all ther external factors?

I'm asking as I too assess my own risk on a dialy basis. I am self employed and am in and out of a number of houses every day. Currently they are all supposed to be empty

A. I do NOT wear a mask inside
B. I do wash my hands before going in and when I leave
C. If tenant or landlord insists on being inside I still do not wear a mask and I do pointedly open windows, leave the front door open
D. I do everything else as per government guidelines

A: I dictate note and no mask is thin enough not to distort the recording
B. I don't rely on other people's idea of clean
C. I want to make the point THEY need to leave, as agreed.
D. Because I don't have the wherewithal to do anything else

@EDSGFC ‘it’s not about being logical’

That has got to be the most jaw dropping, ridiculous statement ever encountered by those of us who retain the ability of critical thinking.

@katienana

I can calculate my own risk so I'll be continuing to see my family. My parents, my family (2 adults 2 kids) my sisters family (2 adults 2 kids) my brothers family (2 adults 2 kids) will continue to mix probably all of us together no more than once a month (2 kids birthdays before Christmas). We won't do this if anyone has symptoms or any if the schools has an outbreak. None of us work outside the home, we are just doing socially distanced leisure activities and now school. Nobody vulnerable. We are prohibited from mixing but 6 adults who work in a hospital, a bus driver, a factory worker, supermarket worker, in office every day, cleaner etc could all meet despite their risk profile being much greater. So yeah I'm not going to cancel my kids birthday to keep to this rule!

Congratulations on being a complete covidiot, you must be so smug and pleased with yourself. 🤬😡

[quote Wishingforanotherlife]@EDSGFC ‘it’s not about being logical’

That has got to be the most jaw dropping, ridiculous statement ever encountered by those of us who retain the ability of critical thinking.[/quote]
Well logical would see schools closed and people send home from work - so perhaps we don't want a purely logical stance.

I am actually shocked by the selfishness of some people.

Yes me too, posters celebrating something that prevents other people from seeing their family. That is a whole new level of selfishness, has no impact on them so who cares about those that it does.

Well logical would see schools closed and people send home from work - so perhaps we don't want a purely logical stance. Actually it would, does, see businesses and schools opening and individuals and families taking additional precautions.

It's an economy based approach! It is logical, it's just not hugging and kissing and having a lovely time.

[quote Wishingforanotherlife]@EDSGFC ‘it’s not about being logical’

That has got to be the most jaw dropping, ridiculous statement ever encountered by those of us who retain the ability of critical thinking.[/quote]
I think it’s time the idea of ‘critical thinking’ was uncoupled with ‘do whatever I want’

Instead think about the big picture and what can be altered without losing jobs or education

@TheGreatWave

I am actually shocked by the selfishness of some people.

Yes me too, posters celebrating something that prevents other people from seeing their family. That is a whole new level of selfishness, has no impact on them so who cares about those that it does.

No one is celebrating.

But I really do not want further restrictions, do you?

@TheGreatWave

I am actually shocked by the selfishness of some people.

Yes me too, posters celebrating something that prevents other people from seeing their family. That is a whole new level of selfishness, has no impact on them so who cares about those that it does.

Who is celebrating the new restrictions.

We all wish they weren't required.

And who is not impacted by the changes? And who is stopping you from seeing your family?

There is nothing to say you can't see your family - just not more than 6.

My actions will be within the law. How is that going to impact on others?

I think 'logical' and 'consistent' are being conflated here.

What they propose is logical given the desire to support the economy/schools. It just doesn't feel consistent.

@CrunchyNutNC

I think 'logical' and 'consistent' are being conflated here.

What they propose is logical given the desire to support the economy/schools. It just doesn't feel consistent.

How can it be consistent when a virus is still waxing and waning on very local as well as a global scale?

[quote Wishingforanotherlife]@EDSGFC ‘it’s not about being logical’

That has got to be the most jaw dropping, ridiculous statement ever encountered by those of us who retain the ability of critical thinking.[/quote]
I'm sorry you aren't capable of understanding.

The logical solution is to tell us to all stay at home and deliver us food parcels until the threat has passed. But that would cause disaster so government are trying to balance competing needs.

What is practical in terms of preserving the economy isn't necessarily logical.

Same as allowing tobacco to be sold legally isn't logical in terms of the dangers to health but it's something government's choose to do for other reasons.

There are reasons why government have chosen to implement these particular restrictions and they won't suit everyone of us individually.

I totally get the difficulty with 6 for larger families. The rules are not well thought out.

But...

Do people not realise that the longer they piss about socialising at will, the longer that this virus will be in circulation?!?!

The countries that have got it under control are those that have had the strictest rules that were well enforced. The sooner we do this the sooner we can open life up more.

I don’t even care any more, I’ve stopped watching the news.

Ignorance is no defense....