‘Fuck the Covid rules.’ Really?

[Yellownotblue]

To all the posters (there have been many) saying they don’t plan to abide by the new rule of 6 - is your attitude specific to Covid, or do you generally don’t care about acting illegally?

For instance would you drink and drive ‘because you have a good reason’?

Or park illegally or drive without a seatbelt?

Would you drop litter on the streets?

I’m genuinely confused by the admission that so many posters see law-abidance as a “nice to have”, rather than some basic standard of life and morality in a society.

I can calculate my own risk so I'll be continuing to see my family.
My parents, my family (2 adults 2 kids) my sisters family (2 adults 2 kids) my brothers family (2 adults 2 kids) will continue to mix probably all of us together no more than once a month (2 kids birthdays before Christmas). We won't do this if anyone has symptoms or any if the schools has an outbreak.
None of us work outside the home, we are just doing socially distanced leisure activities and now school. Nobody vulnerable. We are prohibited from mixing but 6 adults who work in a hospital, a bus driver, a factory worker, supermarket worker, in office every day, cleaner etc could all meet despite their risk profile being much greater.
So yeah I'm not going to cancel my kids birthday to keep to this rule!

@katedan

Please correct me if I am wrong but I have read the government advice and it says 2 households who exceed 6 people can meet as long as they practice social distancing, this is very important for large families who still want to grandparents. Otherwise if you have 5 children do you need to now get rid of one to be able to go out?

That used to be the case but now in Englad it's 6 people in total. This means you individually could meet 5 people from different households to make a gathering of 6. However to meet another household you cannot exceed 6 people so that's only an option if you leave most or all your kids at home to fend for themselves.

And another!

Out of interest @katienana how do you calculate your own risk? What RR factors do you use? How do you keep up with local P and R rates? What weighting do you give each individuals personal characteristics, sex, age, ethnicity etc? How do you get a working estimate of the effect of schools?

@katienana

I can calculate my own risk so I'll be continuing to see my family. My parents, my family (2 adults 2 kids) my sisters family (2 adults 2 kids) my brothers family (2 adults 2 kids) will continue to mix probably all of us together no more than once a month (2 kids birthdays before Christmas). We won't do this if anyone has symptoms or any if the schools has an outbreak. None of us work outside the home, we are just doing socially distanced leisure activities and now school. Nobody vulnerable. We are prohibited from mixing but 6 adults who work in a hospital, a bus driver, a factory worker, supermarket worker, in office every day, cleaner etc could all meet despite their risk profile being much greater. So yeah I'm not going to cancel my kids birthday to keep to this rule!

Wonderful example to set to your kids.

I'm all right Jack to hell with everyone else.

I am actually shocked by the selfishness of some people.

I'm actually thinking they need to change the law to no household mixing.

Not because it should be necessary but because we are a selfish nation who do not think about others.

@katienana

I can calculate my own risk so I'll be continuing to see my family. My parents, my family (2 adults 2 kids) my sisters family (2 adults 2 kids) my brothers family (2 adults 2 kids) will continue to mix probably all of us together no more than once a month (2 kids birthdays before Christmas). We won't do this if anyone has symptoms or any if the schools has an outbreak. None of us work outside the home, we are just doing socially distanced leisure activities and now school. Nobody vulnerable. We are prohibited from mixing but 6 adults who work in a hospital, a bus driver, a factory worker, supermarket worker, in office every day, cleaner etc could all meet despite their risk profile being much greater. So yeah I'm not going to cancel my kids birthday to keep to this rule!

If you do this and other people think like you does the chance of your dc’ school remaining open go up or down?

What about the likelihood of further restrictions or a lock down?

All I can hope reading these replies is you all have significantly the same mindset to live in similar areas and you close your own schools leaving the more compliant areas to keep functioning

An incompetent, arrogant bunch of people are running this country, yes. But aren’t they a reflection of what we are becoming as a society? Didn’t we vote them in? No surprises there OP.

@katienana

Then I hope you are caught and prosecuted.

Out of interest, if one of you caught it and track and trace contacted you would you admit breaking the rules?

My job involves me dealing first hand with the shambles that is government policy making on Covid. I take everything they announce with a pinch of salt and apply critical thinking to it all.

The last 6 months have been a real eye opener for me regarding just how many people want to be told what to do by government and who feel most comfortable when they are projecting their anxieties on to everyone else. The judgement and self righteousness has been sickening at times.

I'll continue to assess my own risk and I invite everyone else to do the same. The risk of any adverse outcome from catching covid for the VAST majority of the population is miniscule. The risk of an adverse outcome from isolating elderly people, shutting down the economy and making people too frightened to go outside is much bigger.

If you want to stay in or not invite your mum to Christmas dinner- your choice. Your decision. I won't comment on it.

For me, there'll be 8 of us. We'll be hugging and kissing and having a lovely time.

@EDSGFC

It's still not logical though is it? The basic thing that these restrictions are trying to do is reduce the risk of spreading the virus. So if you take 20 family members from several different households, none of whom are displaying any symptoms whatsoever, under current rules in Scotland they cannot meet in a garden even with social distancing, masks and hands washing but they could all trot down to the local pub and sit at different tables indoors, with no masks apart from when they move around the place. That's ok because the landlord makes a living!!! But it still doesn't reduce the spread of the virus. Just not logical.

Back during WW2 we had rationing, it made sense, food was running out. There were far more important things than going to the pub (where drink was rationed too).

What is plainly obvious is that the government had no fecking plan for something like this despite a trial run being done a few years ago - all recommendations were ignored. They are now firefighting or, as Jonathan Pie so eloquently put it, playing 'Whack-a-mole' with policies because they haven't got a bloody clue and are more concerned with how they can look good so they remain in power.

@Hotcuppatea

My job involves me dealing first hand with the shambles that is government policy making on Covid. I take everything they announce with a pinch of salt and apply critical thinking to it all.

The last 6 months have been a real eye opener for me regarding just how many people want to be told what to do by government and who feel most comfortable when they are projecting their anxieties on to everyone else. The judgement and self righteousness has been sickening at times.

I'll continue to assess my own risk and I invite everyone else to do the same. The risk of any adverse outcome from catching covid for the VAST majority of the population is miniscule. The risk of an adverse outcome from isolating elderly people, shutting down the economy and making people too frightened to go outside is much bigger.

If you want to stay in or not invite your mum to Christmas dinner- your choice. Your decision. I won't comment on it.

For me, there'll be 8 of us. We'll be hugging and kissing and having a lovely time.

And it's your attitude that will mean the elderly and vulnerable are pushed back into shielding and people get even more isolated, that more people get ill and die alone in hospital, that schools close. But did the rest of us, right? Because you've done your own risk assessment

@Hotcuppatea

My job involves me dealing first hand with the shambles that is government policy making on Covid. I take everything they announce with a pinch of salt and apply critical thinking to it all.

The last 6 months have been a real eye opener for me regarding just how many people want to be told what to do by government and who feel most comfortable when they are projecting their anxieties on to everyone else. The judgement and self righteousness has been sickening at times.

I'll continue to assess my own risk and I invite everyone else to do the same. The risk of any adverse outcome from catching covid for the VAST majority of the population is miniscule. The risk of an adverse outcome from isolating elderly people, shutting down the economy and making people too frightened to go outside is much bigger.

If you want to stay in or not invite your mum to Christmas dinner- your choice. Your decision. I won't comment on it.

For me, there'll be 8 of us. We'll be hugging and kissing and having a lovely time.

You and all the others that want to carry on as they wish will bring about more restrictions, closed schools, more unemployment.

I'm actually thinking they need to change the law to no household mixing

It may not be long before they do given the number of posts on here alone re people saying they won’t stick to six or it can be six per room etc.

@Hotcuppatea

My job involves me dealing first hand with the shambles that is government policy making on Covid. I take everything they announce with a pinch of salt and apply critical thinking to it all.

The last 6 months have been a real eye opener for me regarding just how many people want to be told what to do by government and who feel most comfortable when they are projecting their anxieties on to everyone else. The judgement and self righteousness has been sickening at times.

I'll continue to assess my own risk and I invite everyone else to do the same. The risk of any adverse outcome from catching covid for the VAST majority of the population is miniscule. The risk of an adverse outcome from isolating elderly people, shutting down the economy and making people too frightened to go outside is much bigger.

If you want to stay in or not invite your mum to Christmas dinner- your choice. Your decision. I won't comment on it.

For me, there'll be 8 of us. We'll be hugging and kissing and having a lovely time.

So if your job deals with it 1st hand why are you so desperate to go back to lockdown?

You mention common sense. The rules in place at the moment should be sufficient to keep the slread of the virus at manageable levels.

So why is it rising so much? People using their common sense and assessing their own risks?

Taking sensible steps just now, and I think limiting the number of people who can meet is a sensoble one, we may be able to gather at Christmas.

I really can't comprehend why people don't get it.

Carry on the way we are, school will be shut, NHS overwhelmed and people will die.

Make some sacrifices now then the future will be a lot more rosy.

I'm actually thinking they need to change the law to no household mixing

It’ll be next on the list I’m sure if people carry on doing whatever

@Wishingforanotherlife

It's not about being logical. It's about having a clear, easy enforceable law because too many idiots have ignored the existing rules or exploited loopholes.

All the law breakers are doing is pushing us towards even more restrictions. We need to do a lot of growing up in this country. There's a reason why countries like South Korea are managing this so well and that's because their population is behaving like adults, with a sense of civic responsibility, whilst we are behaving like toddlers.

And you didn't mention common sense

@EDSGFC and there we have it. The self righteousness bullshit didn't take long to come out did it.

So, I am literally KILLING people by having 8 instead of at Christmas dinner am I? And the fact that all through lockdown my job meant that I was in contact with people every day and I don't know anyone whose had Covid doesn't come in to it? And the fact that in the London borough where I live no one has died for this in months, and that there is currently a grand total of 36 cases in the whole borough is irrelevant?

Risk is part of life dear. We all take risks all the time and covid deaths aren't the only deaths that matter.

Hey, guess what. There's a new job opening for you. The government are looking for people to act as marshalls to barge their way into peoples private lives and tell them what to do. I think you'll be perfect for it.

@Timeforanotherusername the issue for me is that our sacrifices seem to be in vain - so whilst I'm not planning any big gatherings anyway - we all know that mass rises in coronavirus positives are not caused by seeing one extra person inside, or minor infractions.

I did my bit last time, and much good it seems to have done me and my family. Unless police crack down in large gatherings, ensure factories are compliant then numbers will rise. Equally if there isn't enough tests available then a rise is inevitable ( NB on a positive note as DS had a cough I booked him in for a test , got a Monday morning slot from checking on Sunday evening and results back first thing Tuesday morning. This is Scotland btw)

I am a law abiding person and have more or less respected the rules of lockdown but NO MORE. I would never drink drive, not wear a seatbelt but the rules are ridiculous. There will be 7 people in my house on Christmas Day regardless of anything Boris says between now and then.

In fact there's loads of you in here that should apply. I reckon it would be your dream job.

[quote Hotcuppatea]@EDSGFC and there we have it. The self righteousness bullshit didn't take long to come out did it.

So, I am literally KILLING people by having 8 instead of at Christmas dinner am I? And the fact that all through lockdown my job meant that I was in contact with people every day and I don't know anyone whose had Covid doesn't come in to it? And the fact that in the London borough where I live no one has died for this in months, and that there is currently a grand total of 36 cases in the whole borough is irrelevant?

Risk is part of life dear. We all take risks all the time and covid deaths aren't the only deaths that matter.

Hey, guess what. There's a new job opening for you. The government are looking for people to act as marshalls to barge their way into peoples private lives and tell them what to do. I think you'll be perfect for it.[/quote]
It doesn’t matter if you think the risk is minuscule if the numbers go up too much we’ll have less choice and more restrictions.

I’m in a London Borough, a different one I hope, numbers are low. I want them to stay that way so the schools don’t close.

[quote Hotcuppatea]@EDSGFC and there we have it. The self righteousness bullshit didn't take long to come out did it.

So, I am literally KILLING people by having 8 instead of at Christmas dinner am I? And the fact that all through lockdown my job meant that I was in contact with people every day and I don't know anyone whose had Covid doesn't come in to it? And the fact that in the London borough where I live no one has died for this in months, and that there is currently a grand total of 36 cases in the whole borough is irrelevant?

Risk is part of life dear. We all take risks all the time and covid deaths aren't the only deaths that matter.

Hey, guess what. There's a new job opening for you. The government are looking for people to act as marshalls to barge their way into peoples private lives and tell them what to do. I think you'll be perfect for it.[/quote]
It doesn't matter what you did during lockdown. And it's not just your family. We all have to follow this law.

If you can meet up as a family of 8, why can't I? If I can why can't my neighbour meet as a family of 10? That's the problem - it's not about you as an individual it's about society as a whole.

Do you pick and choose what other laws you follow too? Is it ok for all of us to only follow the laws that we agree with?

@TinySleepThief they're still allowed? Ffs

‘we all know that mass rises in coronavirus positives are not caused by seeing one extra person inside’

Actually @rookiemere that is exactly how the evidence shows it is spread.

rookie

But what is the difference between 7 and 70 people?

Our young people are getting the blame. Ok they shouldn't be having large gatherings. But surely we need to set an example.

I have made sacrifices. I didn't see family for many months. We are now facing that prospect again. I would love to visit them at Christmas.

I am terrified the schools are going to close again and the impact on my children will be devastating.

If i have to continue to make sacrifices then I will as I would never want to be responsible for passing this virus on.

I understand the frustration of people but we have let our guard down over the summer and we need to take action to sort it out.

It will only work though if the majority of people take heed.