AIBU to give my child an Irish name in the UK?

[FolkSongSweet]

Posting here for traffic. I’ve seen a few heated debates on this on baby name threads recently. I’m considering giving my child an Irish name where the pronunciation isn’t obvious from the spelling. We live in London. Will this be a huge burden to the child when they grow up/a mild annoyance, or not an issue?

(NB this issue could obviously theoretically apply to lots of names, not just Irish ones, but Irish ones are what I’m considering)

YABU - don’t give your child a tricky name
YANBU - it’s not a big deal, people will learn

I worked with someone (Irish) whose siblings gloried in names like 'Assumpta'. She has a very 'ordinary' name in comparison.

😆. That’s part of a different strain of Irish naming where very catholic themed names were all the rage in the 50s/60s. Assumpta being a classic, but also things like Concepta, Rosarii, Majella, Jacintha, Loretta, Bernadette, Carmel, Goretti.

These have gone entirely out of fashion. There are no baby Assumptas these days.

Saoirse: seer-shah. Seer rhymes with beer or deer (or searing a steak). The shah is like a blend of -ah and -eh as a final sound. Someone can probably explain it in a better way than that.

@SionnachRua

Saoirse: seer-shah. Seer rhymes with beer or deer (or searing a steak). The shah is like a blend of -ah and -eh as a final sound. Someone can probably explain it in a better way than that.

Thank you so much! The penny has just dropped with me. It was the shah but I’ve been getting wrong! I was saying sah. Or lord! What a difference it makes when someone takes the time to explain in writing.

@unmarkedbythat
I have the same issue with Arabic. There are some sounds that are almost indistinguishable for me but change the meaning of the word.

Some Irish names are lovely - well, all the ones I've come across

I once had a team (who admittedly had each anglicised or chose english names to use, Mix of nigerian and chinese) who couldn't get their heads around a Niamh in another part of the organisation; the'd either say "you know... her", or a long pause followed by a strangulated "Knee-Am-Her" - I think its a lovely name though.

Go for it - choose something amazing

If you can say ‘Knee’ you can say ‘Niamh’

If you can say ‘Knee’ you can say ‘Niamh’
TBF with this example it's not about pronouncing it, but about knowing from the look of it how you say it.

[quote ChazsBrilliantAttitude]@unmarkedbythat
I have the same issue with Arabic. There are some sounds that are almost indistinguishable for me but change the meaning of the word.[/quote]
One summer I waited tables in a restaurant where almost all the other waiting staff were Chinese and Malaysian and they got their kicks from teaching me things to say and then laughing hysterically when I inevitably mispronounced it so badly as to entirely change the meaning of it. It was, embarrassingly enough, the first time I had ever learned that some languages are tonal- and yet wiki tells me that something like 70% of languages are such! In many ways being a native English speaker makes life easier, because so many people around the globe speak it, but it also makes it easier to remain ignorant and lazy.

This is such an interesting thread :)

Seer rhymes with beer or deer

When you say beer, is it all one long eeeeeer sound, or more of a two syllable bee-uh sound?

@IntermittentParps, absolutely - the first time. Every time after that Knee still sounds like Niamh.

@unmarkedbythat

Seer rhymes with beer or deer

When you say beer, is it all one long eeeeeer sound, or more of a two syllable bee-uh sound?

Irish accents are rhotic, so beer is like bee-rrrr.

@unmarkedbythat

Seer rhymes with beer or deer

When you say beer, is it all one long eeeeeer sound, or more of a two syllable bee-uh sound?

All in one - I've never heard someone pronouncing beer with two syllables tbh!

Glad it made sense @DeliciouslyFemale

It's like Aoife being Eefa. The aoi in Saoirse is creating an ee sound.

On the Saoirse thing, I actually know two English couples (friends of friends, so sadly I couldn’t help them til it was too late!) who have called their daughters Saoirse after Saoirse Ronan and because of her pronounce it sersha (she keeps saying it rhymes with inertia, which it does, in her specific accent, but not an English one).

It’s definitely seersha - “aoi” = “ee”.

Ah, thanks @BigBlondeBimbo and @SionnachRua :)

Now I have another thing to google- rhotic accents!

Now I have another thing to google- rhotic accents!

Rhotic accents in English: southwest England (Devon and Cornwall), most of Scotland, most of Ireland, generic American and Canadian, Indian. Think of how people pronounce the words 'father' and 'farther' If you can hear a difference between them, it's probably a rhotic accent.

Rhotic r meant I never heard the phrase ‘chest of draws’ until I lived in the UK. Draws and drawers sound very different in my accent

@SionnachRua, where Im from (South Wales) worlds like beer, seer, dear, poor, sure all have two syllables. Bee-uh, Dee-uh, poo-uh etc

Rhoticism creates all kinds of confusion in print when discussing accents

@unmarkedbythat and @Fink, I’m aware there are sounds the brain can’t always differentiate in adults, but hearing the difference between sounds isn’t the issue with the ‘ll’. You only have to read the piss taking about welsh ‘spitting’ to know people hear it. They just don’t know how to form it, which is entirely fair if you’ve never needed to! But that doesn’t mean most people can’t learn it with some direction. I’m a speech therapist, I’ve taught dozens of people how to do it.

My grandparents are Irish and I love Irish names. Particularly saoirse & caoimhe (for girls), cabhan & tadgh (for boys). But I'm reluctant to use them because of the spelling/pronunciation problems that they will probably endure for their whole life!

Yes, my mum is Welsh (although not Welsh speaking, nor are any of the family sadly) and I say beer and deer the way she does.

I didn't mean to imply learning the Welsh ll as an adult wasn't possible, @Owlbethere, I'm sorry if it seemed like I was. It just got me thinking about how it really is hard to say, and sometimes even to hear, sounds in languages you don't know.

Rhotic r meant I never heard the phrase ‘chest of draws'. Draws and drawers sound very different in my accent
Mine too.

I've never heard beer said as one syllable.

The Sersha to rhyme with inertia pronunciation is likely to be popular, just like Neev has taken over from Nee-v. This is what happens when names from a different language are used, slightly changed and ten become mainstream.

@OwlBeThere, not everyone is a speech therapist and you won't be there when your daughter goes to school, college, work.

I have never been able to teach anyone to say Ll, and no amount of correcting Llanelli or Llangollen has worked. The english people who can say Ll properly have one welsh parent.

I'm called Siobhan. I love my name. I've always looked forward to Christmas and birthday cards every year to see the spellings of my name. It's more common now than when I was born in the 70's but I love my name and feel proud to be carrying on our Irish heritage. My mother's is more unusual. Go for it. 😁

@LemonDrizzle44 you have similar taste in names to me 😊 I'm having a boy and love Tadhg. Need more ideas like this!