AIBU to give my child an Irish name in the UK?

[FolkSongSweet]

Posting here for traffic. I’ve seen a few heated debates on this on baby name threads recently. I’m considering giving my child an Irish name where the pronunciation isn’t obvious from the spelling. We live in London. Will this be a huge burden to the child when they grow up/a mild annoyance, or not an issue?

(NB this issue could obviously theoretically apply to lots of names, not just Irish ones, but Irish ones are what I’m considering)

YABU - don’t give your child a tricky name
YANBU - it’s not a big deal, people will learn

@LolaSmiles

YANBU

Someone was talking about BAME names (I know not the same), but they said that people manage to teach their children how to say Beethoven and Tchaikovsky and the surnames of foreign footballers, so it's just ignorance and laziness on the part of adults if they claim they're so confused about a non 'native British' name.

It stuck with me.

Names linked to parental heritage are important and nobody should feel they should avoid their heritage to appease a minority of people's ignorance.

So eloquent.

I'm also not one to say you can only name your child based on heritage. Sometimes you encounter a culture in a profound way or really just really understand the meaning and like a name from another culture, go ahead and celebrate it with your child. And I say this as a black African : if all we do is limit each other to our own cultures, names, food, hairstyles etc, then what are we doing? Where is the harmony.
OP, go ahead. Those that are decent human beings will take time to learn to pronounce

My little brother is called Declan and he grew up in London. Everyone calls him Decland? I don't get it, surely you can see there's no D on the end.

He is super chill though so doesn't give a rats ass.

I have an Irish name, no longer living in Ireland. My name was unusual in spelling even in Ireland. Honestly, I love having an unusual name, people learn how to spell and pronounce it and I have had many ice breaker conversations over the year about my name. Even some career opportunities where I think having a memorable name has helped. I love Irish names, myths and legends, all of that, they all sound magical to me in some way. Will happily give my own DC Irish names when they come long, they give a sense of my identity and background.

@79andnotout

My little brother is called Declan and he grew up in London. Everyone calls him Decland? I don't get it, surely you can see there's no D on the end.

He is super chill though so doesn't give a rats ass.

How odd :/

I wouldn’t even put Declan in this category. It’s not a Gaelic name, it’s an easy to say/spell name that’s popular in Ireland. Like Kevin, say.

I don’t get issues with its pronunciation, it couldn’t be easier.

Yes Deaglán is the irish i think.

Very middle aged. No baby declans

I grew up near london and names were completely varied from all cultures with many Irish and asian names. I knew many Aoifes, Seans and Siobhans and don't remember any one having any issues with it. The only thing I could see being a mild annoyance is people getting the spelling wrong, I still have to look up certain names for spelling.

I would go for it OP. It is your heritage and will be part of baby’s heritage too. Give her the name and be proud of it!

As others have said, you and she WILL have to correct pronunciation and/or spelling from time to time, but you could easily get that with a very traditional English name anyway.

The one thing I’d also say is, as your DD gets older, be prepared for people to expect her to “sound Irish” and to be disappointed that she has a London accent. My dsis has a classic Welsh name (DM is Welsh) but an English accent and people often express surprise that she doesn’t “sound properly Welsh”.

But again that’s no reason not to pick the name.

The point is that yes it is a name from another language but you cant then be annoyed when people pronounce it wrong first time, are people supposed to know that bh equals v or about fada’s and stuff

The point about Russian, Arabic or names from the Indian sub-continent is the English version you are seeing is a phonetic transliteration of another script. They are easier to pronounce because they are the sounds written down according to English phonetic rules. DH is Arabic.

Irish names are phonetic but to Irish rules. My DDad used the Anglicised version of his name even though he was an Irish speaker.

I’m fascinated by how many people seem to want to use a name to acknowledge their heritage, why is that?

That’s such a weird question...why do you think? Because their heritage is meaningful to them. My children have welsh names because it matters to me to connect them to their heritage.

The names are lovely but the spellings dont represent the sounds, i.e. Caoimhe is lovely but really its no good getting annoyed if people get it wrong as it doesnt sound anything like Keeva

No, you’re right. Much better to have a nice phonetic Stephen, Phillipa or Phoebe eh?

My Irish children were born in US. Both with Irish names/spellings.

Initially I used to have to wait to hear their surname when their names were called in drs office or dentist, as their names were mangled. But after a little while all the places that matter added the phonetic spelling to their file. And that ceases to be a problem.
Meanwhile we returned to Ireland, and the people in the County that we live in cannot prounounce my surname correctly 😂. Once I spell it they give it their own pronunciation!! ‘Oh you mean ....’. No, I don’t actually’!! 😂😂😂

Imagine having to call a “Sadhbh” to come in for an interview. I believe many people would feel intimidated. I guess one could look up the pronunciation of that name, but do people really want to put in the extra effort in real life? They may or may not be willing to do so.

I can usually pronounce any name, African, Indian, Middle Eastern or Asian because most names are spelled in a way that is recognizable to an English speaking person and the name pronunciation can usually be worked out. But a name like Sadhbh just makes me pause...I have no clue how to even begin to pronounce it without offending.

We are expecting a baby girl as well, and while the name we have chosen reflects our culture/faith, one of the conditions was that it had to be fairly easy to pronounce/spell by everyone.

Of course, you have a right to call your child what ever you want 🙂

God, these threads always bring out the belligerently monoglot Little Englander thickos, burning with outrage that someone’s name might take them for a moment out of their comfort zone where all proper people are called Emily and James..

Something to bear in mind is that your child may not live in London or indeed anywhere in the UK. And Irish spelling, while perfectly logical and consist in itself, is just so different to the spelling used in almost any other language (I guess Scottish Gaelic is probably similar, can't think of any others). If I chose to gave an Irish language name to my child, I'd give a more "internationally straightforward" middle name that I liked as well---most people are OK with having to correct spelling and pronunciations, but there is a chance your child will find it tiresome and may choose to use a middle name instead, or use the middle name in certain circumstances.

God, these threads always bring out the belligerently monoglot Little Englander thickos, burning with outrage that someone’s name might take them for a moment out of their comfort zone where all proper people are called Emily and James..

Not necessarily. I'm not a monoglot and we're a bilingual family. But I'm not bilingual in Irish, so my being bilingual does not really improve my ability to know how to pronounce Sadhbh without looking it up. The spelling system of Irish is really different to that of any other langauge I can think of.

And it's not my discomfort that's the issue--I'd be worried about causing embarassment/annoyance to someone who probably already spends their life correctly spelling and pronunciations.

Forgot to mention but I work with people who are Russian, Brazilian, Chinese and a whole bunch of other nationalities---they also would like Sadhbh far harder to know how to pronounce compared to a name like Emma. Do you also think they are awful people?

I voted YANBU because I can't reasonably tell you not to give your child a name from your heritage. But she'll be going through her life spelling it out to everyone, and I can say from experience that sucks.

For a native English speaker, Irish spelling/pronunciation seem very unintuitive, more than most other European or south Asian languages. Though that may just be me knowing hardly any Irish people.

(I have a less common spelling of a fairly common English surname. I've seen just about every variant imaginable. I've also started spelling out the first few letters and still seen people write what they wrongly assume the rest of it will be.)

I think it's sad if people don't use these names because otherwise they die.

Although I'm not sure how many Irish people were ever called these Irish names.

I’ve lived all over the world with a little-known Irish name and surname, @Kokeshi123. They have never caused me problems. People generally pronounce them correctly when they’ve been told the pronunciation, just as I manage to pronounce João, Tadeusz or Siroezhkin, despite not speaking Portuguese, Polish or Russian. I have to conclude people don’t have your fear of other phonetic systems.

I was a supply teacher, I've always started taking the register with, "If I get your name wrong please correct me"

My difficulty is when there is one spelling but two different names, eg Jose or Iona.

OP

Go for it, in London you come across names from all cultures, people cope.
just as I manage to pronounce João,

That's a name I have had to practice, I really struggled getting my mouth to go from J to a 'w' sound.

I think it's sad if people don't use these names because otherwise they die. Although I'm not sure how many Irish people were ever called these Irish names

really? In Ireland? You don’t think we were called these Irish names???
Spoke to 3 girls named Sadbh today (work in education). They’re all fairly run of the mill here.
OP - I’ve almost had the reverse problem - named DD an Irish (spelled five ways) type name (Orla/Orlaith sort of thing) and went with the simplest spelling as I lived in the UK at the time. Came home permanently and unexpectedly. DD is now in Nursery here. Teacher, proud gaelgoir and defender of the language refuses to use the spelling we went with. She frequently comes home with name badges with the Irish spelling.

Declan IS an Irish name as is Kevin.

My father went to London to work in the 1950s. The era of no blacks, no Irish no dogs. His name was Kevin. Nobody had heard of the name & he was called Kenneth.

people manage to teach their children how to say Beethoven and Tchaikovsky and the surnames of foreign footballers, so it's just ignorance and laziness on the part of adults if they claim they're so confused about a non 'native British' name

True. Although sports commentators seem to get it wrong all the time - even with British sportspeople.

I think the difference between something like Clare and Claire is that people know how to pronounce it, even if they spell it wrong. Whereas if you see as an example, Siobhan, on a form, you might not know how to say it.

But I had a maiden name (English place name) that British people found impossible to spell (although actually it was phonetic and not that bad, and when I moved to Germany everyone seemed to know how to write it!)

Declan IS an Irish name as is Kevin.

They’re already anglicised, not the original Gaelic. Phonetically they pose no problems.