AIBU to give my child an Irish name in the UK?

[FolkSongSweet]

Posting here for traffic. I’ve seen a few heated debates on this on baby name threads recently. I’m considering giving my child an Irish name where the pronunciation isn’t obvious from the spelling. We live in London. Will this be a huge burden to the child when they grow up/a mild annoyance, or not an issue?

(NB this issue could obviously theoretically apply to lots of names, not just Irish ones, but Irish ones are what I’m considering)

YABU - don’t give your child a tricky name
YANBU - it’s not a big deal, people will learn

@allhappeningatonce

I've an Irish name, definitely had to pronounce it for people & spell it a lot for people in England but once you do it once, it's grand! In fact, when I lived abroad, people were very accepting of it too. I've taught kids in England & elsewhere with Irish names, including several with non Irish background & they had no issues in school. Wouldn't be an issue at all, your children will grow up in a multi cultural place & once people have heard a name once or twice they are fine with it! I use my middle name in Starbucks everywhere though including in Ireland, just easier😂😂

On the Starbucks thing, I’ve got a friend from Belfast called Becky (this will make sense if you know the accent), who got a coffee in Starbucks in London labelled “Paki” 🤣

Thanks so much for all the contributions. I’m leaning towards using it now. Hopefully she won’t mind the implications!

@isadoradancing123

The names are lovely but the spellings dont represent the sounds, i.e. Caoimhe is lovely but really its no good getting annoyed if people get it wrong as it doesnt sound anything like Keeva

@isadoradancing123 - this view comes up regularly on mn. It is just such an insular view. Why on earth would you expect a name or word in a foreign language to follow the rules of English?

Although, interestingly, you rarely see the same bleating about the spelling of French names not representing the sounds.

I’m fascinated by how many people seem to want to use a name to acknowledge their heritage, why is that?

I do not have an British background at all, my parents did this and I found it very strange. With my own DC I really didn’t consider this and wouldn’t have known where to start including the four different cultures we combine.

For how many generations is it meant to continue?

I’m fascinated by how many people seem to want to use a name to acknowledge their heritage, why is that?

I do not have an British background at all, my parents did this and I found it very strange. With my own DC I really didn’t consider this and wouldn’t have known where to start including the four different cultures we combine.

Worked in an RC school.

Irish names were a doddle (other than remembering who spelled theirs Anglicised and who spelled them properly with the Irish spelling. Only irritation was that some systems didn't recognise the ' in names like O'Hanlon and no fadas at all.

Polish names can be harder at first, but that's only until you get your 'ear' in and get used to the particular sounds. And remember who spells Olivia as OliVia and who spells it as Oliwia/Susannah as Zuzanna, Suzanna, Victoria/Wiktoria and so on (which is no different to remembering which Sue is Susan, Suzanne, Susannah, Susanne/Lyn is Lyn, Lynda, Lin, Lynne, Linda, Lindy, Linn, etc, etc, etc).

Demographics change. Fashions change. So names change. Meh, you just learn how to say them and get on with your day.

A school friend was called siobhan and got so annoyed with people saying it or spelling it wrong she changed the spelling to Chevonne.

A friend's daughter has just started spelling her Irish name the English way because she's fed up of spelling it - her mum is miffed. If you'd be okay with this potentially happening, go ahead. I don't have an unusual name, but I am known by my middle name and it's a right pain in the arse, so I would tend to err on the side of ease, but that's just me.

@RubyFakeLips

I’m fascinated by how many people seem to want to use a name to acknowledge their heritage, why is that?

I do not have an British background at all, my parents did this and I found it very strange. With my own DC I really didn’t consider this and wouldn’t have known where to start including the four different cultures we combine.

My Irishness is important to me. I live here because of my DH and my job, but I prefer Ireland and am particularly grateful for my citizenship at the moment in light of Brexit.

My children will most likely grow up here and they have an English surname (didn’t want to give them mine for complicated reasons not worth going into, though I’ve kept it for myself), but they will be Irish citizens (DH is too, through a grandparent) and I would like that to be “obvious” to an outsider because it’s likely nothing else about them would suggest it. Of course it will he open to them to reject that when they are older, just as it will be open to them to change their names I suppose.

I also just really love this name.

@mitzik, this is what I mean, I don't know many Polish people but I have seen enough polish names written down now to know that wiktoria is Victoria and Ewa is Eva and so I learn from that that a w is a v sound.

And so. I do wonder, does that not happen to English people. After they've seen Niamh, Siobhán, Sorcha and Sinead written down umpteen times, they must notice that S before a slender vowel = sh sound. bh and mh = v sound. S before a broad vowel = s sound same as in English. a fada elongates the vowel sound (eg Siobhán and Pádraig) Patterns must emerge! ?

It's hard for me to be objective about this being Irish, but the phoneticism must start to take shape for people who have a grá for languages :-p

I've got a non English surname and I have to spell it out letter by letter every single time I use it on the phone. I don't mind that much and I do like my name but I really couldn't be arsed if it was my first name.

I would if the spelling and pronunciation was straight forward. Otherwise I wouldn't. But it seems quite fashionable now.

Heritage and your own personal reasons are more important than pandering to a small group/ type of person who will insist on charlie or lily or whatever the simple name that is "acceptable" to that mindset (which is very strong now with our heightened xenophobia - same mindset as racism don't forget). For the majority of your childs' life they will have educated and worldly and travelled people around them if they choose to have an interesting (or successful) life of experiences - don't start them off on the back foot by trying to please the opposite types who will be brought up to sneer at the audacity of being proud of another land or culture.

Most people here are lovely and OP I promise I don't want to derail the thread but..

For those asking why heritage keeps going, why is it important to keep these names alive etc. This is recent enough that people who witnessed this could be on this site. Or the children watching it. Or grandchildren who know this is why relative XYZ isn't around.

My DDs both have Italian/French names. I am Irish but have a Spanish name (my grandmother). When I lived in Ireland my kids went to a Gaelscoil. In the Middle East they learned Arabic. I lived in West Africa for years and there was never a problem with kids from Europe learning local languages.
All kids should be given every opportunity to learn foreign languages.
I am so sad that languages have been demoted here because of Brexit. Surely world trade depends on multiculturalism and language learning.
This government will not be respected in the history books of the future.

I have an Irish great grandparent so I’m not Irish but have some Irish heritage and we named our dd Aoife. I still absolutely love it. She has just started school and no problems in nursery or school with it being pronounced wrong. For me, it being such a beautiful name was more important to me than worrying whether people will pronounce it or spell it wrong. Anyone who matters will make the effort to get their name right.

@bellinisurge I’ve seen that before. Clever and hilarious! 😂

An Irish man in Australia bit my head off for calling him Donald, which I thought was what they said when they introduced him. His snarling fury was really startling. I still didn't catch his name, but I stayed well away from him after that, so it didn't matter. Now, when I fantasize about baby names, I always choose ones that I think would travel well.
I'm more aware of the ramifications of British colonisation of Ireland than a lot of people in the UK, by the way. I just don't know if your child's name is the best place to show your national pride.

I just don't know if your child's name is the best place to show your national pride.

Why not?

Depends on the name.... Irish and speaking from experience...
A name that is easy to pronounce like Siobhan etc, fine.
A name that Irish people in Ireland can't say or refuse to say correctly, such as Sorcha..... the uou are setting them up for a lifetime of grief...

I suppose it depends how ‘Irish’ you are planning...

I worked with Irish people and for an Irish organisation (most staff were Irish). Some names were easy enough (Moya) but others were more tricky to spell and pronounce and people would forever be spelling names out (or even changing the spelling to make it simpler ‘N-u-l-a’).

I’m a great one for names that ‘work’ across the board (family, where you live etc). This is speaking as someone with a long wazzy name that made me stand out.

There’s a thin line between ‘oh that’s a lovely/unusual name’ and ‘can you spell that?/where’s that from?that’s, um, different - ma...moh...miii...Mary?’

Sounding wrong in a different accent can happen with any name. My friend is from the Home Counties and her husband from Newcastle. They loved Joseph until they realised Joe sounded totally different depending on which of them said it.

Go for it. Lots of people will be introduced to your daughter in person and will hear 'Sh-vawn' before they see 'Siobhan', for example. Others will see it written down, make a bollocks of it and then get it right - if they don't make an effort then it is bloody rude. Randoms who you only come across once may get it wrong, but does it matter?

My name has about a million spellings with one common alternative letter, and lots of different shortenings. I only get pissy if someone who knows me gets it wrong!

@CoalTit

An Irish man in Australia bit my head off for calling him Donald, which I thought was what they said when they introduced him. His snarling fury was really startling. I still didn't catch his name, but I stayed well away from him after that, so it didn't matter. Now, when I fantasize about baby names, I always choose ones that I think would travel well. I'm more aware of the ramifications of British colonisation of Ireland than a lot of people in the UK, by the way. I just don't know if your child's name is the best place to show your national pride.

Meh, some people are a bit aggressive about it, but seeing as you are so well versed in the history, maybe you can understand why. And hearing his name and turning Donal into Donald is quite ignorant tbh. If you met a Nigerian Bola and said "what? Bob? Nice to meet you Bob" or an Italian Lorenzo and said "what? Laurence? Nice to meet you Laurence", I would also think you were quite ignorant. Donal and Donald sound quite different. Did you think Ronan Keating was called Ronald?

I think the sur name is a factor. Eg Aoife Smith may feel a better fit for a girl growing up in England. My kids do not have an Irish sur name but I can really see how irish names + irish sur name could seem like their name didnt represent the fact that they grow up in England and sound English and feel English. Just something to factor in. If an irish first name is only 50 % of your full name and 50 % if your heritage it might feel a better fit.

@FolkSongSweet

My favourite name (which I don’t want to say as it’s a bit outing) isn’t one of the well known/easier ones unfortunately.

It’s easy to say for an English speaker, but the spelling doesn’t make that obvious.

I'm wondering is it my daughters name.which I also don't want to say on here

@WiserOlder

I think the sur name is a factor. Eg Aoife Smith may feel a better fit for a girl growing up in England. My kids do not have an Irish sur name but I can really see how irish names + irish sur name could seem like their name didnt represent the fact that they grow up in England and sound English and feel English. Just something to factor in. If an irish first name is only 50 % of your full name and 50 % if your heritage it might feel a better fit.

Yep I’ve already said a few times that my daughter will have my husband’s English surname. That’s partly why I’d like her to have an Irish first name.

As I’ve also said a few times, the pronunciation is very straightforward, sounds the same in English and Irish accents (and there is only one acceptable pronunciation in Ireland - it’s not like Caoimhe (which has 2) or Sorcha (which people get wrong)). It’s 2 syllables so not a mouthful. It’s not Fiadh but I guess similar in that the sounds are easy but spelling not intuitive for an English person.

@CoalTit like it or not names say a lot about you as a parent, and people do make assumptions about a person based on their name. I’m sure the names Octavia, Zainab, Lacey-Mae for example all conjure up certain associations and I’d like my child to be associated with being Irish if that’s ok with you.