AIBU to give my child an Irish name in the UK?

[FolkSongSweet]

Posting here for traffic. I’ve seen a few heated debates on this on baby name threads recently. I’m considering giving my child an Irish name where the pronunciation isn’t obvious from the spelling. We live in London. Will this be a huge burden to the child when they grow up/a mild annoyance, or not an issue?

(NB this issue could obviously theoretically apply to lots of names, not just Irish ones, but Irish ones are what I’m considering)

YABU - don’t give your child a tricky name
YANBU - it’s not a big deal, people will learn

But a name like Sadhbh just makes me pause...I have no clue how to even begin to pronounce it without offending.

But why would you offend? No Sadbh living in London expects someone to pronounce her name correctly on first reading. Where you will offend is if you continuously get it wrong after being told the correct pronunciation/spelling repeatedly.

It always makes me laugh when posters on here state that it's only ok to use Irish names with difficult spellings for English people if you live in Ireland. Because a child born in Ireland will of course remain there, Irish people never emigrate. I think Irish people do tend to consider whether a name will travel far more often than English people (obviously hugely generalising here) because we have such a history of emigration.

The name Siobhan demonstrates three patterns of irish phoneticism.
Sinead / Sorcha show what happens when s is before either a slender or a broad vowel.
Aoife demonstrates that aoi = eeee
Eabha shows that ea = ay

I can see that it's not easy and some catch me out (spelling) but it's not that hard either!

@Kokeshi123 if you are a bi-lingual family then look at how names are spelt, compare that to how they're pronounced. You will not be able to prevent yourself from seeing patterns. The notion that there is no logic to Irish spellings isn't correct.

I admit sadhbh is a challenge, but dh would be silent mostly (always?) and anybody who's ever met a a Siobhan or a Mebh knows that bh is a v sound.

My name is an unusual English name. It's pronounced and spelt incorrectly (even though it's spelt and pronounced exactly as it's written) but I love my name and I just correct people.

Fair enough TheKeatingFive Declan & Kevin are anglicised. However they are Irish names not just names that are popular in Ireland.

Two of my kids have Irish names in London. And they are two that are difficult to spell and pronounce (if you try to pronounce how they are spelt). Doesn't seem to bother them and it is a conversation starter.

Names that were not a problem in my bog standard schools in Hertfordshire in the 1980s:
Aoife
Siobhan
Sinead
Sian (I know that's Welsh)

I think there are certain Irish names that most people know how to pronounce now, like Niamh is pronounced “Neve” and Siobbahn is “Shivorn.” (Sorry if I spelt those wrong).

It’s not about anyone being bothered about names being “forrin” because who gives a hoot. It’s just about pronouncing them because some people get so offended. For instance, I’m Spanish. I can pronounce any name from anywhere as much as the next person. But there was a little girl who started new when one of mine was at nursery and the name on her scooter was Saorise. I thought it was a lovely name, but when I asked if she would like to come to ours for a play, the mum was really rude because I didn’t pronounce the name properly. But how would you know until you has heard it? Even then it’s hard to spell. One if mine has a friend called Liusaidh, which is pronounced the same as “Lucy,” but from all other language groups people constantly spell it wrong.

Thanks for the further replies. Interesting that the poll has stayed around 80:20 throughout!

It has given me serious pause for thought. The other name I really like - Maud - while being a pretty marmite name in my experience! doesn’t have any of these problems. I just don’t love it as much though. DH’s favourite is the Irish one but he’s said I can choose.

FWIW all my friends with Irish names in England have said it’s no problem for them, but then they are all very confident and outgoing and see it as a good conversation starter (as many have said here), but of course my daughter might be shy and hate it.

You’re not being unreasonable at all! My nephew has an Irish name, although we do have Irish grandparents.

However, that doesn’t really make a difference! My SIL is expecting her third child and is giving the child a Hawaiian name - none of her family or ours are Hawaiian! It’s you’re baby, as long as they are happy and healthy that’s all that matters!

I like Maud. Very regal! There was an Empress Maude, also known as Matilda in England, so it actually bridges the gap between Ireland and England.

What was the other name? Otherwise, we can't say you see .

FWIW all my friends with Irish names in England have said it’s no problem for them, but then they are all very confident and outgoing and see it as a good conversation starter (as many have said here), but of course my daughter might be shy and hate it

If it helps OP I'm shy and like having a Welsh name in England as it's a good conversation starter. People usually ask where my name is from and I say Welsh, they ask if I have Welsh family, I say my mother is Welsh, they ask if I speak Welsh, I say I'm learning and then they ask if I can say 'that place with the really long name', I say 'just about' and demonstrate when asked and then we're in a full flow of conversation.

How does empress Maude bridge the gap between Ireland and England (am I being thick?)

@Boscoismyspiritanimal

How does empress Maude bridge the gap between Ireland and England (am I being thick?)

It doesn't. The only Irish connection would be the likes of Maud Gonne MacBride (born in England but of Anglo-Irish descent) who obviously didn't have an Irish name....

Amazing woman though.

@Boscoismyspiritanimal

How does empress Maude bridge the gap between Ireland and England (am I being thick?)

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empress_Matilda

There was a queen of England, called Matilda, but also known as Maude.

Yep I like Maud because of Maud Gonne - big Yeats fan! Also several in my family generations back, mostly called Molly day to day. But it’s not an Irish name.

There was a queen of England, called Matilda, but also known as Maude.

But Maud is also an Irish name, sorry. So a foot in both camps...kind of.

Maud Gonne is a fantastic namesake too.

where all proper people are called Emily and James
@Ilen my mother would be very pleased with this comment

FWIW @FolkSongSweet my PAINFULLY shy and socially awkward daughter loves her welsh name, she says it gives her something to talk about when first meeting people outside of Wales, it’s also something that she’s used to talking about so that takes the pressure off. She’s called Gwenllian so on the days she’s not feeling the love for explaining she just says Gwen, but for the most part she goes by Llian.

Maud is not even slightly Irish tbf. While Maud Gonne is an important cultural reference point she was Anglo Irish ascendancy. The name would be seen as very English in Ireland.

@TheKeatingFive

Maud is not even slightly Irish tbf. While Maud Gonne is an important cultural reference point she was Anglo Irish ascendancy. The name would be seen as very English in Ireland.

Oh is it??! The only Maud I know is also the only person I know who speaks Irish as a first language. So I assumed it was Irish. Thanks for clarifying.

Yeah I don’t think Maud is an Irish name. I think it’s originally Germanic in origin, and was an English nickname for Matilda. I really like the name though!

But I like it less than my other option because it’s not Irish, and my son has an Irish name so it would be nice if they both did.

@quest1on

I think there are certain Irish names that most people know how to pronounce now, like Niamh is pronounced “Neve” and Siobbahn is “Shivorn.” (Sorry if I spelt those wrong).

It’s not about anyone being bothered about names being “forrin” because who gives a hoot. It’s just about pronouncing them because some people get so offended. For instance, I’m Spanish. I can pronounce any name from anywhere as much as the next person. But there was a little girl who started new when one of mine was at nursery and the name on her scooter was Saorise. I thought it was a lovely name, but when I asked if she would like to come to ours for a play, the mum was really rude because I didn’t pronounce the name properly. But how would you know until you has heard it? Even then it’s hard to spell. One if mine has a friend called Liusaidh, which is pronounced the same as “Lucy,” but from all other language groups people constantly spell it wrong.

There's no "orn" in Siobhán!! it's pronounced Shiv-awn. Also in the part of Ireland I live in Niamh is pronounced Ni-av rather than Neeve

Also, did you really never hear that little girls name out loud before you invited her to come round to your house? That would be quite odd, never spoke to her or asked how it was pronounced but you read her name on a scooter the first time you meet and invite her around to play with your child? That story sounds far fetched.

Friends of mine are Fidelma, Eilidh and Ruaraidh. It's never been a problem where we live (Scotland) but I've been on holiday/road trips to England with them and seen how annoying it is having your name mispronounced. That being said if it's a name you like and you are prepared to correct people then go for it!

There's no "orn" in Siobhán!! it's pronounced Shiv-awn

In fairness the ‘awn’ can sometimes sound like there’s a R in it. Like a D4 accent for example.

I much prefer Ni-av.

I find the intricacies of accents and pronunciation very interesting, particularly in ireland and the UK where there’s so much variation.

Flashbacks of the threads on here which debated whether giraffe can legitimately be rhymes with scarf (Smartest Giant in Town). Now they were intense.