AIBU to give up a life's work to see my kids grow up

[doctormumoftwo]

I am thinking of leaving my job and I desperately need advice from other people who may have been in my position. I have two children who are 2 and 6. I work as a junior doctor/surgeon and am halfway through my training/exams. My DH is a full time a doctor. I love my job but it is very stressful. We could get by on DH salary alone but it would mean a big change in lifestyle (no holidays etc). I acknowledge I am very lucky to be in this position. I have been part time since I started but I am falling behind on my surgery and I have realised I can't continue part time as I need more surgical experience to gain competency. I also have final exams to take which means many hours of revision. I will be working flat out for the next 5 years minimum (nights, weekends, exams etc). Due to COVID our parents can not longer help regularly. It will be less stressful (but still demanding) as a consultant. DH cannot go part time to help. Despite the long hours we work, we can't afford private school, we live in a small flat with no garden. We will have to put the kids in school/nursery from 0745 - 6pm 5 days a week, or have a nanny for >50hrs for us to both work. My child's school is not great, there is not much community outside the school. My heart breaks for them, especially the 2 year old. I feel like I am sacrificing their childhood for my career. I have worked so hard to get where I am, invested money, time and incredible effort, but it feels like the demands of my job are just not compatible with being a decent mother. I don't know what to do. Our part time nanny recently quit handed in her notice. My child's reading is falling behind and they always ask me to play but I don't have the time to give them. I am thinking of giving up work and being a mum. I feel so guilty to continue leaving them for so many hours. I don't think a part time solution is going to work any longer because of the surgery, as I am falling behind and I spend many of my unpaid days off at work 'catching up'. I enjoy my job but I am incredibly stressed and sad about the toll it is taking on us all- that I know will not end for many more years. What should I do?

@AgentProvocateur

He is nearly finished so he can't go part time- although he's allowed, it would have a negative impact on his career prospects (there is still quite a lot of sexism about this in medicine).

So your husband CAN go part time. He’s just choosing not to as it will have a negative impact on his career prospects. Yet he’s presumably happy for you to give up your career completely? You’ve done the part time already to enable him to progress his career when the children were small. It’s his turn to make sacrifices for the next few years.

I am with @AgentProvocateur here. This seems a bit unfair. Your career is ALREADY stalling and he's happy for you to take all that heat? I think it's time for him to step up. Worst case, you both suck it up for however long it takes him to qualify, and THEN he has to reduce his hours for a couple of years while you step it up. The point is he's not having this debate is he? He's not worrying that it's EITHER his career OR the children because he knows he can just leave that on you.

I think it would be very sad for you to give up now. You've worked long and hard to get here. And as a woman who has had surgery more times than I like, I WISH at least one of those surgeons had been a woman.

Nanny is clearly your best option. Someone kind and who will be part of your family. Someone who you agree long hours with and who will make your life easier so that when you get home, your kids are bathed and fed and you get to spend quality time with them. Accept that outside of work and family you will have little going on - free time is for sleeping or being with your kids.

But mostly, I do think you need your DH to STEP up here.

I understand this must be such a tough decision for you. But 5/6 years IS a long time when contemplating their childhoods.

I went part time a couple of years ago (non medical) but stressful job with long hours and lots of travel. Because I wanted a better work/life balance and I've now got it. I also hated the thought of my child being in breakfast and after school club every day plus spending the vast majority of the holidays in a club.

I would definitely explore other (less demanding) areas of medicine or to see if you could take an extended break and come back to it in several years.

Hopefully this won't come down to you having to make a straight choice between the two and there may be some way that the two can be combined.

Good luck

You’ve hit that really difficult part with more than one child (so big hike in childcare costs) and they’re at the stage where frankly, they’re more interesting and fun than the young baby bit, so you’re hyper aware of what you’re missing.

I absolutely would not throw away my career though. You make it sound very black and white whereas in reality there must be other options, even if you can’t take them right now.

I would be planning to move somewhere where there’s a better community feel and you can afford a nicer place home. Doctors are needed everywhere so even if you can’t do it right now - plan!

Your dh could reduce his hours, you’re just letting that age old sexist thing creep in that somehow he shouldn’t be expected to because he’s a man.

Also you mention that your parents can’t help at the moment because of Covid, which implies they were supporting you previously. Covid won’t be around forever - things may look quite different in 6 months or a year’s time, and they could be back on board helping. That’s worth a lot - you’re very lucky to have wider family able to do that

So All in all, after all your training and financial and emotional investment in your work, I think you’d be making a big mistake to completely chuck it in, which you may well regret in a couple of years. Instead, look at the changes you can realistically make over the coming months and years

I was in your exact position and I gave it up without hesitation. The major difference for me was that I didn’t love the job, in fact I’d begun to hate it even before DC so in some ways I was relieved to have a way out. I was fortunate that this was not a problem financially - not just because DH is a high earner but because I have income from an inheritance. My DC are still young, but I do worry about what on earth I’m going to do once the DC are all in school. We don’t need the money, but I’ll obviously need to find something worthwhile to do with myself. I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it. No regrets though.

I do think this is a lot about good childcare here. You've had the double whammy of your parents bowing out and the part time nanny resigning. This is the moment when I feel guilty usually when childcare is in flux. I would invest rather a lot of money into getting a full time nanny who the children like and fills you with confidence.Het proactive and interview. I would definitely work on doing that first and giving it six months of them in role before you make any other lasting decisions.

Don't give up, but do try and get a cleaner/nanny/other help so that you can spend some quality time with the kids.

My husband is one of 3 boys, both his parents were doctors who worked all hours. He and his brothers are absolutely fine, and his parents made sure that the time they spent with them was real quality time. Your children are seeing you work hard on an important job, which is a valuable and important thing to see.

It sounds tough but I think you will regret giving up now.

Firstly thank you for being a Doctor and looking after all of us who need your help.That said this is a tough call for many professionals .Could you maybe become a GP in a London suburb? Maybe seems like a "step down" but children grow so quickly and it seems a shame to not enjoy their childhood as much as you can .Could you not retrain later on? The NHS is very tough going at times(My Cousin is a Doctor in a busy A /E dept within a big Northern Teaching Hospital)so maybe just take your foot off the gas and have fun with DC for the moment

Assuming you actually enjoy medicine/surgery and it is just the current intensity/training/juggling with parenting that is creating the stress then I really think you would regret giving it all up to be a SAHM

I would do whatever is necessary to make daily life easier, if you can get a reliable FT nanny and other domestic help as necessary (cleaner etc) and agree a plan with your DH for the next few years (move from a flat to house with a garden) which will make hard work worth it in the longer term (assume if you give up work entirely this will make a move financially difficult)

I would also push your DH to support you more and negotiate with his bosses about working more flexibly/cutting his hours

When does your husband fully qualify as a consultant?

He can do part time then, easily.
He could go part time while you get fully qualified and then swap back

Unless he won't because he is "too important"

Hi op, not sure whether this has been suggested or not but could you take some time out (think you said you can take up to 3 months out without affecting anything) to really weigh everything up, spend some time with your children, explore other options ie moving, dh helping to support etc and to allow you the headspace to make a decision? Sounds like you need some breathing space anyway.

I'm another one agreeing with AgentProvocateur. If your husband was willing to take a bit of a hit by going part time, you could keep your career, and presumably go part time later once you are in a better position to. Long term it would leave your family in a much fairer and better position. If you prioritise his career and he becomes unable to work in the future, or you split you will be left in a real mess.

You have to ask yourself at this time what would be the biggest sacrifice, your job or having more time seeing your children grow up ?
At primary my DD had a friend whose parents were both consultants and had a day nanny. I would have the friend over for play dates and she would often mention she never saw her parents, they often missed plays, assemblies etc. She seemed quite affected by the lack of time she had with them tbh

Tara 66 are you saying you think all Surgeons should be middle aged men then? Pilots,Doctors ,Solicitors all have massive life changing decisions to make at work! This is 2020 not 1960 !

Just a different perspective, can you use all your wonderful medical training, qualifications and knowledge for a different career? I have no experience of the world of a medic (apart from being a patient!) but could you, for example, become a specialist writer? Or researcher? I don't know of other roles open to you but it'd mean you don't waste all the years you've invested so far, still have a career, etc. but also have more balance in your life. It would close one big door for sure, but others would open instead.

I think you need to be very careful not to make an irreversible decision that you will regret later. I think I am right in understanding that you currently have a training number. If you leave you will never get back in. I would try to keep going on as part-time a basis as they let you get away with - 40% if need be. Don't feel under pressure to take these exams. Wait until your kids are both in school and you can use some of your time away from work to revise.

Also, I think that your living arrangements might be the cause of some of your stress. It must have been hard work having such young children in a flat during lockdown. Perhaps you can both look to moving to another part of the UK. Medicine is transferable. Living somewhere that enables you to afford a family house could make the world of difference.

@MojoMoon

When does your husband fully qualify as a consultant?

He can do part time then, easily.
He could go part time while you get fully qualified and then swap back

Unless he won't because he is "too important"

That. Don't just throw away all you have done so far. Yes DC are only small for a short time, but that goes both ways. They will not need you so much in a few years, but you can't just jump back in where you left off. And you have your entire life ahead of you.

@doctormumoftwo You ask AIBU to give up a life's work to see my kids grow up? But that’s not what you are really asking!
You sound really stressed and miserable. Ask yourself - do I still want to be a doctor? Or is the training and the time commitment too much? It’s ok if it is - it doesn’t make you a bad person to change your mind about your career.

If you don’t want to carry on, then don’t- you can afford it. But maybe look at other work options- your choices aren’t limited to being a doctor or SAHM only ... there are loads of jobs with regular hours, no nights, no ongoing examinations, that would value your training and life experience to date.

If you do want to carry on being a doctor, I’m afraid you must find a way to make your husband step up and support you. If he has to go part time too, so be it. If he refuses, maybe remind him that with 50/50 custody he’d be forced to work it out - and you’d have free time to study, work and rest. I’m not saying ltb just remind him you are a team and he has to do his part too.

Oh you poor thing - I am Medical too - GP not surgical speciality.
You sound exhausted and I can completely understand!
Things to think about

• are you exhausted/ burnt out and could you have a break? Even just 3 months
• Could both you and hubby work part time so the children don’t miss out and you feel less guilty
• May be worth seeing your GP - some basic bloods to make sure no anaemia and thyroid ok and to rule out depression
• when we are busy our own self care disappears - too tired to eat properly and exercise and those are the time self care matters most

-what inspires you outside Medicine?

• I am in NZ but MPS provides 6 sessions psychological support - I use it. Good to see someone outside your own situation - gives perspective that colleagues and family can’t.
• All Medicine is hard. It’s a wonderful thing but it’s hard. 2 doctor families have a load. You or your husband may need to change tack but don’t make that decision from a place of exhaustion and being overwhelmed.

Best wishes to you - PM me if needed.

I struggled for many years working in a professional job and caring for my two children. I thought about giving up many times - it would have done were it not for the many hours of work I'd put into qualifying. My husband left me out of the blue when the kids were 14 and 11. I was so very grateful I had a well paid job to fall back on. The children are young adults now - and are fabulous - I'm glad I never gave up.

Don’t take advice from people on the internet! You know your children, your husband, your work. You know whether your heart is in your work or not. Yes it feels awful to turn away from a career you have invested huge amounts of time and money into but there are other careers out there. Work is not the be all and end all. Reading through the lines you sound like you are looking for permission to stop. You can give yourself permission!

Personally I’d take a month out and see how you like the SAHM life. It’s not for everyone I have several friends who quite honestly hate looking after their kids, weekends and holidays are enough and they will go on about how important their careers are until the sun goes home. I have my own business but it was running me into the ground, taking a step back becoming a SAHM ish (I still have the business and the financial benefits of it albeit reduced) was the best thing I did, our home life is 1000 times better, I’m much more relaxed and a nicer person, I cherish the time I get to spend with my daughter as it goes so fast and I know what it’s like to be completely frazzled and at my wits end and I have no interest in going back to that.

You get one shot at life, it’s ok to go against the grain and do what is right for you and your family. Remember you have choices and others justifying their own choices only serves them and not you.

I'm sure it has been said a billion times, please continue with your job and studied the DC will be fine better than fine.
I worked night when my first was young to spend lots of time with her now she's 12 she doesn't remember or care about all those finger tip pictures.
She would have been very proud had I been studying over the years.
Keep going.

@doctormumoftwo please listen to the many doctors who have commented in a similar boat and who understand how our training works (I’m an anaesthetic reg). It doesn’t have to be all or nothing and I totally agree with what has been said about your husband pulling his weight!!

Also, my mum who worked throughout my childhood in the NHS doing long and antisocial hours, is my inspiration and I am immensely proud of her. We so often do a disservice to those mums who work when actually I think we should also look at the positives (and this is not bashing SAHP but just showing that there can be some huge positives to a group often who get spoken about in negative terms). Please don’t think that you have to do this alone and your career is just as important as your husbands.

Can't work out how to vote but I think you should hire a nanny (even if it means sacrificing in other areas), go full-time and push on through. I think most people would say they don't remember much of early childhood - quality time with the children at that age is more important for you than it is for them (as long as they are having consistent care from someone caring and stimulating, but this can be a nanny or another family member). It's as they get older that they need you more and notice how much you are around. You have chosen an amazing career and already put so much into it. It will be wonderful for the DCs to see you thriving in that, especially if you have girls. It will be worth it.

If I were in your shoes, I would give up and be a full time mum. Your children need you now, later they won't so much and I am sure you will be able to go back to work in the future. Possibly to pick up your training, possibly in another role entirely....what you have so far will not be wasted though.

I am nearing retirement. I look back at my own children's years, I was with them in the very early years but soon went back to retraining and then more and more piled on. I have huge regrets and I cannot go back and change it. The children needed me still and I didn't notice how much at the time, and eventually the stresses cracked our marriage apart too.

I have the benefit of hindsight; it is easier to pick up again in future years but impossible to go back to your children's childhood and re-do it.....

OP you’re also being very emotive by talking in binary terms of ‘giving up your life’s work’ or ‘missing seeing your children grow up!’

As a woman in my fifties, I was back at work when my first child was 12 weeks old. I did work part time for a while but went back up to full time when our children were still very small. It’s absolutely not true that you ‘miss them growing up!’ Dh and I are close to all 3 of our (now adult) kids and they are all happy and well adjusted and certainly don’t feel that they grew up without parents

I appreciate you’re feeling very emotional about it but try to think objectively about the situation. Imagine that in a years time, your parents could be helping again. Imagine in two or three years time, you could have moved somewhere with a better community and where your money will go further. Doctors are needed everywhere! Imagine if your dh steps back a bit in his career so that you can focus on yours.

There are so many variables here and it’s a bit depressing to hear from a woman with a great, hugely valuable career, which she has invested a lot in, just assuming that when things get tough, her career is by default the thing that’s jettisoned.