AIBU to give up a life's work to see my kids grow up

[doctormumoftwo]

I am thinking of leaving my job and I desperately need advice from other people who may have been in my position. I have two children who are 2 and 6. I work as a junior doctor/surgeon and am halfway through my training/exams. My DH is a full time a doctor. I love my job but it is very stressful. We could get by on DH salary alone but it would mean a big change in lifestyle (no holidays etc). I acknowledge I am very lucky to be in this position. I have been part time since I started but I am falling behind on my surgery and I have realised I can't continue part time as I need more surgical experience to gain competency. I also have final exams to take which means many hours of revision. I will be working flat out for the next 5 years minimum (nights, weekends, exams etc). Due to COVID our parents can not longer help regularly. It will be less stressful (but still demanding) as a consultant. DH cannot go part time to help. Despite the long hours we work, we can't afford private school, we live in a small flat with no garden. We will have to put the kids in school/nursery from 0745 - 6pm 5 days a week, or have a nanny for >50hrs for us to both work. My child's school is not great, there is not much community outside the school. My heart breaks for them, especially the 2 year old. I feel like I am sacrificing their childhood for my career. I have worked so hard to get where I am, invested money, time and incredible effort, but it feels like the demands of my job are just not compatible with being a decent mother. I don't know what to do. Our part time nanny recently quit handed in her notice. My child's reading is falling behind and they always ask me to play but I don't have the time to give them. I am thinking of giving up work and being a mum. I feel so guilty to continue leaving them for so many hours. I don't think a part time solution is going to work any longer because of the surgery, as I am falling behind and I spend many of my unpaid days off at work 'catching up'. I enjoy my job but I am incredibly stressed and sad about the toll it is taking on us all- that I know will not end for many more years. What should I do?

Can you take a very short amount of time off to get a full time nanny settled in with you? Instead of paying for great holidays pay for daily and real help for you so that any time you have at home can be spent with the children rather than on family admin?

I would also caution against giving up.
I worked full time as a City lawyer when mine were small - I completely recognise what you are going through, you sound close to burn out, I had a breakdown. I quit and became a SAHM after my 2nd child. I thought that was what I wanted. Actually it was awful. After being in a highly stimulating and demanding environment the life of a SAHM is so dull it's painful. I love my kids but it just wasn't enough for me. I started to resent them and resent my husband's freedom to 'have it all'. I got a wonderful part time job in a non-City area of law and I love it. With the kids age 8 and 10 I went back full time (still in the non-City role).
You will find lots of people justifying their own decisions on here, particularly the long-term SAHMs who are insisting that it's about 'being there' for their children (even though the children will be out at school or with friends the vast, vast majority of the time).
My advice:

• Try to step back, not quit. I'm not sure of the options for medicine but there must be some. My friend went from cardiology to anaesthetics when she realised it wasn't compatible with family life. Did take years though.
• Try to take an immediate break. You are under too much pressure to make the correct decision now. There must be support for junior medics under pressure; take it. If you cannot then your DH will have to fall on his sword. You are not less than 50% of the adults with a career in your house.
• Remember COVID has made everything worse, for everyone. Don't decide your whole life on the basis of the last 6 months.
• Be wary that the grass is always greener. Having nothing in life except mumming can feel very, very limiting; particularly when you can see the alternative coming home everyday in the form of your DH.
• The pre-school years are the hardest. The demands are 24/7 and unrelenting. Get as much paid childcare as possible and a school with great wrap around offerings. It does start easing at 6-7.
• Remember quality time with your kids is better than quantity. No-one cares or remembers who heated the baked beans or washed the t-shirts or cleaned the floor. The vast majority of SAHM time is not singing rhymes and making collages. It's low-level domestic chores on repeat.
• Outsource as much of the mental and domestic load as you can; home PA, cleaner, send out the necessary ironing, learn to overlook ceases for everything else.
• Make sure your DH has 50% of the responsibility for managing the home and the kids - it sounds like the majority is falling to you and that pressure can be crushing without the pressure of medicine on top.
• Take time for you. A night off, coffee at your favourite place, wine with a friend or whatever. It's the best therapy.

I think some settling in time could set your mind at rest about childcare

Don’t quit. Speak to your dh and find a way of him compromising to make your family life work. It is totally unfair that you throw everything away and he sails through totally unscathed. You’d be putting yourself and your children in a vulnerable position being totally reliant on your marriage to work our for any future financial stability that you’ll need. Not just for the short term but for the next 10,20,30 years time when the children are adults and long gone.

It makes me so sad that all these women above are advocating that you chuck away everything that you have worked for so your dh can not make one sacrifice.

All this stuff about children are only young for a short period. Exactly!!! My kids are now in their teens and I’ve always worked full time. I’ve got an amazing bond with them and they suffer no ill effects from the fact that I didn’t pick them up every day from school. I’m a single mum and they thank me for the financial independence that I’ve maintained has meant that we have a good life even though the men in my life have proven to be assholes. A working mum does not damage children. Living in poverty does.

Try to change everything but your career.

New nanny, cleaner, explore options of moving somewhere that makes you happier, tutor for the kids, take some leave now for some headspace, throw money at the problem for now to get you through. Try to make these work for you first.

My mum worked and yes we did miss out on time with her, but it was during secondary school not primary. I missed her being home after school so much. But then she was an amazing role model and I have her work ethic and she was able to pay for driving lessons, bought me a car and deposit for first flat and more. All because she kept working. Good luck OP.

@WaterOffADucksCrack

I would never give up my job to be dependent on a man. If you split up you've no idea how long it would take to split assets etc. I really encourage women to keep their financial independence.

This!

Your kids will only grow up once.
You only get to see it once.
And it never comes back.
On MN I'd be surprised if 99.99% of posters dont say keep your career as that's how it seems to go.
But you'll miss being around for your kids.
And they need you more as teens, don't listen to anyone who says they don't. Being a teen these days is bloody hard.

If I was being operated on I would rather not have a surgeon in your position. I have never considered or knew that surgeons had this predicament. I find it alarming.

Seriously?

Do you think they're robots or only wheeled out on the occasions they are needed to operate?

They have to deal with all the shite any other person has to. Probably more so due to the responsibility.

I haven't rtft but just wanted to say good luck, this sounds like a nightmare situation.

If I were you I'd take the 3 months off to make up your mind. In that time really live the life you would if you quit and see how it is. I changed career mid life after 4 years unexpectedly as a sahm (primary teacher to university lecturer via some additional education) and you don't loose your old skills, you just reapply them. A break/ change might take you in an interesting and unexpected direction.
Or you might have 3 months of being a sahm and it will drive you up the wall and you'll know surgery is for you.

Medicine is changing now. It might be surgery is the last to see it but loads of my male trainees are working part time now (unheard of 10 years ago) to look after their kids. We are seeing some take shared parental leave. I cheer them on even if it makes life a bit harder for me!

Your DH does need to take some of this. They are his kids too. It is really easy to get LTFT now compared to what it used to be. You just apply and they can't turn you down whatever might be said. If he even just went down to 4 days a week it would help. With Covid wfh is a lot more accepted too. Admin can be done from home clinic letters etc.

Maybe if he's near the end of training then it makes sense for him to finish FT but he needs to negotiate the consultant job for less sessions. Maybe that means a less popular region or hospital, less prestigious. That's the sacrifice he can make so you don't sacrifice it all. I'm sure he would love it if you gave up work so he can do all the hours god sends and justify it but if that's not what you want why should you agree to it.

Would you not resent your DH over time? His world will open up professionally as he qualifies and yours will be very different. In 10 years’ time will he respect you the same as a SAHM as he would if you were working a surgeon? Will all the house and kid related stuff become “your job”. Don’t make a decision in the midst of a childcare crisis, your career and aspirations are important as well

He already doesn’t view you as a team - your career already seems expendable in a way his isn’t.

“A working mum does not damage children. Living in poverty does.”

This.

Resentment kills a marriage. How will you feel with your husband coming home late, having been for a drink with his colleagues or an awards night whilst you have been at home wiping the kitchen surfaces down again.

Please don’t quit. Short term pain for long term gain - once you’re a consultant it’ll mean a better standard of living for all of you. Plus you’re being an excellent role model by showing your children how hard you’ve worked to achieve your qualifications. You can do this!

Don’t quit.

I remember speaking to a colleague who told me, “don’t give up, just keep your foot in the door”. I carried on part-time. I’m not going to lie, at times, it was not much fun, but it got better. I now earn more then my DH and am doing really well

I also received this advice from the man who was my work mentor when I had a clutch of small children at home and thought I'd collapse under it all.

It was the best advice anyone ever gave me. It was a really tough few years (good childcare isn't cheap) but we have reaped the benefits of it for the next 20.

My advice to any woman in this situation is "don't give up" you never know when you will need those qualifications/income generating capacity.

I've watched women sacrifice their own prospects for the DC/DH then deserted in middle age by the high earning man.

I became sole earner when DH was too ill to work and have been evere since - we would have been out on our uppers if I hadn't kept up my work.
This also meant that when my kids were teens (the time you really need to be available to them) I was already well up the tree with much more autonomy about how and where I worked.

Mostly though, why are you making all the career sacrifices/hit whilst DH swans along full time "building his career"? Why is he not sharing the load?

It is difficult training when the children are small - I have been there. The hardest thing was the exit exam with a 1 and 3 year old and married to another acute speciality doctor. I had to completely change the way I usually worked for exams (no late night studying etc). I've now been a consultant for 9 years and glad that I continued. I have sent you a message!

Given how much time and effort goes into your career, and how long a career will last (long after your children have left home) I would not quit but try to power through with the part time and accept my progress would be slower than I would have liked for a few years. Can you find a mentor in the same profession who has had similar struggles, other female surgeons who have older children? I've found these to be so valuable.

I've also found myself unexpectedly as a single mum with teenagers and boy am I glad I kept my career going, it really was hard work in those early years when they were little, but the alternative, to be looking for work right now having taken years out, with two teens who need support, doesn't bear thinking about. Having a career gives our household a good income and choices that otherwise we would not have.

Your husband needs to step up and work out how to facilitate your career for these next few years. If he's sexist and doesn't want to do that, then even more you need to not quit! Me and my husband took it in turns to take mat/pat leave and work part-time with each child, moving back to f/t when they were aged 2. It is hard, and I had some family support as well.

I know lots of women who have had to be the main wage earner at one point or another, due to recession (including in Covid-19 when husband suddenly lost job), divorce, widowed, the husband retired, the husband burned out and changed direction, there's just so many reasons I wouldn't want to rely solely on one wage going into the future.

Also, I love my job even more now, I always liked it but now mine are teens, I'm senior enough to have quite a bit of flexibility and focus on it when I can. I think this would happen for you too.

It's great so many women medics have contributed to this thread to give you other ideas of how to stay in medicine.

Ultimately though, it's about whether as a family you equally support both your careers and dreams about the future, or they get invested into only one person (your husband)- how is he going to make this work for you in the next 3-5 years and perhaps he needs to make some sacrifices, not you sacrifice everything.

I was the first to comment but having read some of the experts, I'd change my advice and not take the time out. To me, it is a simple solution. You need to go 80% to give you the time to train and DH needs to go 80% to support you. He won't like it. It may feel like limiting both of you, but it's actually allowing you both to progress at a slower rate. Then you spend a lot on nannies and cleaners to allow you to survive the next few years and scrimp on other stuff, and you enjoy the time you do have with the kids without washing.
I know they're super cute and needy at this age, I really do know. But it is a very very brief period to throw it all away!! Probably less than four years, which is the blink of an eye in your long career.
I quit. I did a couple of years at home, and then I realised a person like me who has always worked so hard at school/uni/work can't be really fulfilled by park trips, making dinner, cleaning and cbeebies. You are important, this is your life. It may make you happy short term, but probably won't long term.

I agree your husband needs to step up; it shouldn't be you sacrificing your career just because he refuses to go part-time.

My mum was a doctor; I was so proud of her as a child.
Unfortunately she had to massively downgrade her career because of her awful husband not being supportive. She still carried on her career but in a part-time role.

Many children are very happy hanging out with friends and Carers. They still know who their mum is, and parents are the primary relationship. I had brilliant childminders etc but it's the family group that is most important, even if for you it feels like you are often at work.

I would say take the advice to get mentoring and speak to female colleagues as suggested. And speak to your husband too. He is being completely unfair to expect you to give up your career.

Honestly, I would quit. Give your children the attention and support they want from you.
You might absolutely love being a SAHM.
There's nothing shameful in giving something up if it's not right for you.

Don't give up. Personally I think your husband should go part time or you get a nanny. If it was the other way round, wouldn't this happen? It sounds like it's harder for you to go part time than for him to because of the need to do extra surgeries. Once you become a consultant you can get better work life balance and as long as they're physical needs are met and you're focused on them when you're with them, they'll be fine.

Lots of really good advice. I would advocate for staying in work. You are at the hardest point, it gets easier and you will welcome your career further down the line. You don’t know what is ahead of you but having your own career gives you security.

Sorry everything is so hard just now x

Your kids will only grow up once. You only get to see it once. And it never comes back
Why is it assumed that working mums don't get to see their kids grow up?

Of course, you get to see less of it, but less doesn't mean missing out on what matters.

My experience has been that ft working mums actually spend better quality time with their kids because they value it much more when they do. Spending 2 weeks of the summer holidays with them was a massive treat, and we enjoyed every minutes of it. Such ago yeast to my sahm friends who would start moaning in July at the prospect of spending 6 weeks with theirs and looking at ways to pass the time rather than planning it with excitement.

Being a sahm means having more flexibility and time to do chores that ft parents have to do outside of work hours. Some love it, some hate it, but its rarely only just about the kids.

*their