AIBU to give up a life's work to see my kids grow up

[doctormumoftwo]

I am thinking of leaving my job and I desperately need advice from other people who may have been in my position. I have two children who are 2 and 6. I work as a junior doctor/surgeon and am halfway through my training/exams. My DH is a full time a doctor. I love my job but it is very stressful. We could get by on DH salary alone but it would mean a big change in lifestyle (no holidays etc). I acknowledge I am very lucky to be in this position. I have been part time since I started but I am falling behind on my surgery and I have realised I can't continue part time as I need more surgical experience to gain competency. I also have final exams to take which means many hours of revision. I will be working flat out for the next 5 years minimum (nights, weekends, exams etc). Due to COVID our parents can not longer help regularly. It will be less stressful (but still demanding) as a consultant. DH cannot go part time to help. Despite the long hours we work, we can't afford private school, we live in a small flat with no garden. We will have to put the kids in school/nursery from 0745 - 6pm 5 days a week, or have a nanny for >50hrs for us to both work. My child's school is not great, there is not much community outside the school. My heart breaks for them, especially the 2 year old. I feel like I am sacrificing their childhood for my career. I have worked so hard to get where I am, invested money, time and incredible effort, but it feels like the demands of my job are just not compatible with being a decent mother. I don't know what to do. Our part time nanny recently quit handed in her notice. My child's reading is falling behind and they always ask me to play but I don't have the time to give them. I am thinking of giving up work and being a mum. I feel so guilty to continue leaving them for so many hours. I don't think a part time solution is going to work any longer because of the surgery, as I am falling behind and I spend many of my unpaid days off at work 'catching up'. I enjoy my job but I am incredibly stressed and sad about the toll it is taking on us all- that I know will not end for many more years. What should I do?

Would just throw in a few aspects that haven't been mentioned yet.

I think Covid changes things. Pretty clear that we will have this virus for a couple of years at least.

What happens if someone in your family gets ill? You will be needed.

Yes income and quaifications are important, but so is life itself.

I'm looking at the headlines today and there are many NHS doctors who are saying they are no longer going to sacrifice their mental and physical health for the profession. Do'nt get me wrong but I have the greatest of respect for doctors. Other doctors suffering PTSD and so on from over work.

What I am saying is we all need a better way of working one that balances community and family better.

I did qualifications updated about two years ago. My health suffered and wasn't able to enter a profession at that time that I was planning to enter. Manage at the moment on what for many is a very low income by living simply. Very simply. Focus on food, school, wellbeing as far as I can. DD now 15.

Before Covid there were many times when I missed working in former profession and felt infulfilled.

But now with Covid I am really glad that I kept it simple. Would agree with previous poster about kids needing you still I believe even more so when they are teens. At the moment so many young people are going through mental health difficulties of their own due to the aftermath of Covid. And so I am very glad that at this point in time I am able to be there for them.

Keeping it simple doesn't necessarily mean moving house. Keep the journeys simple. There is a lot to be said for doing things locally. No garden? Have you thought about an allotment or taking part in a community plot? What open spaces are near you that you could be in with the family that would help your wellbeing.

Looks like travelling abroad and holidays may be problematic for some time to come so local solutions might be a way forward on this.

Re career, I think the trick is of finding a way to keep your hand in. How many years would your training be valid for and could you do part time training to stay up to date. I don't know the medical profession but could you move sideways within the NHS part time and then pick up at a later date?

Whatever you do good luck. I guess I'm saying think outside the box. Yes, maintaining your quals is important but so is, quite frankly staying alive and intact with your wellbeing so that your working life and your family life can be sustained. Hope this helps.

Don't apply a long-term fix to a short-term problem. Try to picture yourself in 10 years time if you give up now. Let your future self advise you now.

I know several doctors who have done this and none of them regret it.

Also not sure if anyone has said this but you are amazing. To get into medical school and to be training as a consultant is incredible. Not only that but you have two children. Wow!!! Your parents must be so Very proud. When your kids are teens and their friends ask what their mum does (which they all do) they will be so proud to say doctor or consultant. When they are older they will really appreciate what you did for them - providing them with a comfortable lifestyle and probably good education. Well done.

He is nearly finished so he can't go part time- although he's allowed, it would have a negative impact on his career prospects (there is still quite a lot of sexism about this in medicine).

So your husband CAN go part time. He’s just choosing not to as it will have a negative impact on his career prospects. Yet he’s presumably happy for you to give up your career completely? You’ve done the part time already to enable him to progress his career when the children were small. It’s his turn to make sacrifices for the next few years.

I agree with this 100%. Your DH is also responsible for your and his DCs. Why should you be the one having to make all the difficult decisions and potentially take the career hit?

PS why are people still suggesting the OP goes part-time/becomes a locum now? She's made it perfectly clear that she's at a vital stage of her training and she can't do that right now.

If you love the job then don't give it up.

All of the posters saying you should walk away are missing this point. Being a FT SAHP will only be the right decision for you if it's what you want to do and if you are happy to leave the job behind. But that doesn't sound as if it's the case.

Your H must step up here. You've talked about him not being able to go PT because it would negatively impact your career - but it's OK for you to give up your career entirely?!?! They are his children too, he jointly decided with you that you would both have a family, so he must take an equal part of the responsibility for caring for them.

Your H needs to go part-time. If it takes him longer to get where he wants to be, then tough. But you should not be the one making all the sacrifices here. If he loves you then he will understand and agree to this.

Aside from that I agree with the other advice - FT nanny, outsource as much of the household stuff as you possibly can, so that when you and your H are at home you are solely focused on quality family time.

My Mum ran her own business when we were growing up. She worked 7 days a week as it was non-stop and she was always busy. I'm glad we grew up with her as that example; she was very clear with us that we should work, not allow anyone else to derail our career prospects (regardless of whether that was working as a cleaner or nuclear physics!) and that we should never be financially dependent on someone else. Her other advice was also that women should be able to drive and have their own car, and have immediate access to their own money - so that if the shit hits the fan you can get away and look after yourself.

Junior doctor here. I can fully understand what you are going through. I have a 10 month old and my maternity is going to end , but I am taking more time off( not in training yet) . My heart breaks every time I think of leaving her and going back to work as I know it would mean I will be missing a lot of her growing up( as it will involve long days, weekends and nights and incredibly stressful)I feel so helpless. But I am planning to take as much as I want to as I can’t prioritise work right now. Honestly have no advice, but a massive handhold and hope you will be able to make a decision that works for you.

If I were in your shoes, I would give up and be a full time mum. Your children need you now, later they won't so much and I am sure you will be able to go back to work in the future

Yep for what? They will need thee OP for the next 5 years. And then?
They’ll start living their life, be more independent whilst the OP, but of course, certainly not her DH, is sacrificing her career, her financial independence etc.... But she should be grateful to be able to retrain (that is if she can financially do it as finances are now restricted) Or start again in what? At least 10 years time. Probably more . Because her DH still will not go part time (his income will be higher HE has a career he can’t jeopardise).
And anyway the OP won’t have worked/has no career anyway so why the fuss???

Why is it that women are encouraged to sacrifice themselves like this???

Thanks for your lovely reply OP. I think these feelings are sadly common for so many women in the workplace. Only you know all the viable options that might work for you as a family. I’m not sure any answer to this problem is perfect and I’ve found accepting that can help with decision making, as otherwise you can end up going round in circles. Also, think about your options if you decide to be a SAHM now but later want to return to working outside the home. What would those options be in a year, 3 years, 5 years, 10 years? Perhaps the career break would enable you to test out being a SAHM with minimal risk? Best of luck with your decision

I agree with PP. I'm in awe of anyone that can do what you and your husband and all the other thousands of Doctors do. I've nothing but respect for all of you💪🏻
The training is brutal and the exams are pure evil. (Some of those pass rates are shocking!).

I honestly don't know what I'd do in your situation. It seems such an all or nothing situation.

@Tappering your mum was very wise!

Could you go private? Less pressure more control over your working hours? So sorry you feel this way OP. We need more women doctors xx

I’d complete your training then consider your opinions.

I can't offer any advice but thanks for all your work as a doctor. I really hope you can find a solution that works for you and your family.

Tappering good points. Several people have said they don’t regret giving up their work, but also admit they didn’t like their job much/ preferred being at home anyway. So you can’t really make a direct comparison there. The OP fundamentally likes her job and has invested huge amounts of time and energy. Like any good career, it’s going to have stress points (but then frankly, low paid low status jobs and also being at home all the time have stress points too... )
Don’t make a major life change on the basis of the current circumstances

I fully understand your dilemma. I have watched my work slip away from me over the past ten years, seen all my friends who are childless thrive and take opportunities I couldn't. My career may not recover.

There will be less (if any) recognition for the enormously difficult, important and skilful work that mothers do. Being aware of that, we must be careful not to martyr ourselves. We can be 'good enough' mothers, find fulfilling work, look after ourselves and our own needs.

I am glad of the choices I made, I am a bit sad that I won't perhaps get to where I might have had I put the kids into childcare and focussed on my work more. But not very. Having glimpsed what 'success' looks like, I know that it often isn't quite as fulfilling as we hope it would be.

I have a close, loving, fabulous relationship with my children, I love them deeply and get much joy from them (and we all drive each other up the wall, naturally, as is normal and healthy).

Good luck, OP. I think you will be okay whatever you choose, and ultimately you probably know deep down what the right choice for you is. I'd also look for 'third way' - we can dither over a two-choice dilemma, it's better to know that there are several choices/paths open to us.

It seems such a shame to throw away all that hard work though OP. If I were you I would start searching for a decent nanny.

I think the fact that if you continue to work you will be able to work part time in the future albeit in a good few years times might swing it for me to chose to stay in work.

I think part time working is the dream.

I used to do it and it was amazing. Literally the best of both worlds.

OP you must do what suits you ultimately, however as someone with now grown up children please don’t think that working parents will harm them in any way.

Honestly, my kids are bloody brilliant. Happy, successful, well rounded. People constantly say how they’re a credit to us.

Many of my friends are hospital medics married to medics, and they have managed to make it work. They've operated as a team, shared parental leave, and both made sacrifices to their careers. None of them are surgeons, but they are anaesthetics, cardiac specialists, etc, which apparently can have better hours (they planned this into their choice of specialism). Some are still juggling their training, like you.

It sounds like your husband needs to take some of the load off, saying it's a chauvinistic field doesn't really cut it, that doesn't make change. And I would certainly consider whether surgery is the right calling for you if you're still fairly early on in your training.

We're in the NW and there are plenty of hospitals within a reasonable commute and two part time medics have a good quality of life from what I can see.

This must be such a hard decision, I really do feel for you OP.

Honestly, if I was in your position I would probably give it up and spend the time with my family. It's rubbish though as I really wish we had more female surgeons, I've hardly worked with any.

No time to read responses at the moment so apologies if what I have said has been said before but just wanted to empathise. I am a GP and DH is a consultant surgeon. The years in which we had young children and he was training were brutal and I have no idea how he would have got through it without having me doing the majority of the child and house care. It seems overwhelming but is just a short time. Once you are a consultant the hours are much shorter (he gets home before me most days- never make the mistake of thinking GP is more family friendly!) and you have much more control over your working life.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this upthread but the best resource for you is going to be Physicians Mums UK on Facebook. There are (I think) about 10000 women on there, all ages and stages of career, many also married to Drs, most of whom have gone through similar dilemmas and these scenarios are frequently discussed! There are some absolutely amazing female surgeons on there, as well as people who have changed career, given up or gone part time and you will get all the advice you need.

If your children were much younger, then maybe, but they're getting to the age where they'll be at school all day so you'll find yourself at a loose end.
I gave up on a job when I was pregnant and I really regret not do something to try and make it work. I worked hard and I loved it. Going back to the job isn't an option and there isn't anything else like it.

From a practical stance, the children are at nursery around about the same time that most working mothers/fathers have, so this aspect is not unusual or related to being a doctor, so it's an issue of you potentially giving up all the training to be a SAHM.

My step mum was a doctor, in the USA, so the training was a bit different, and she specialised as a pathologist and retrained as a GP, which seemed to work out better.

However, I know lots of doctors. A close friend of mine works as a locum on the weekends, another retrained as a music teacher as she hated being a doctor. Another is a consultant, who irritatingly is at all the school functions and able to juggle. She is a specialist and mostly does clinics and some rotations, and relied on nannies when her children were younger, with her husband who also has an on call commitment.

However, as many others have pointed out, the maternal guilt will be there more or less whatever profession.

Lastly, my step mum was a doctor and from the child's viewpoint, there were some things that I missed, and maybe had fantasies that she would be the mum who would bake cookies or whatever, but she wasn't that person. She burned food, she was terrible at most things domestic, but she was a loving, supportive mum.