AIBU to give up a life's work to see my kids grow up

[doctormumoftwo]

I am thinking of leaving my job and I desperately need advice from other people who may have been in my position. I have two children who are 2 and 6. I work as a junior doctor/surgeon and am halfway through my training/exams. My DH is a full time a doctor. I love my job but it is very stressful. We could get by on DH salary alone but it would mean a big change in lifestyle (no holidays etc). I acknowledge I am very lucky to be in this position. I have been part time since I started but I am falling behind on my surgery and I have realised I can't continue part time as I need more surgical experience to gain competency. I also have final exams to take which means many hours of revision. I will be working flat out for the next 5 years minimum (nights, weekends, exams etc). Due to COVID our parents can not longer help regularly. It will be less stressful (but still demanding) as a consultant. DH cannot go part time to help. Despite the long hours we work, we can't afford private school, we live in a small flat with no garden. We will have to put the kids in school/nursery from 0745 - 6pm 5 days a week, or have a nanny for >50hrs for us to both work. My child's school is not great, there is not much community outside the school. My heart breaks for them, especially the 2 year old. I feel like I am sacrificing their childhood for my career. I have worked so hard to get where I am, invested money, time and incredible effort, but it feels like the demands of my job are just not compatible with being a decent mother. I don't know what to do. Our part time nanny recently quit handed in her notice. My child's reading is falling behind and they always ask me to play but I don't have the time to give them. I am thinking of giving up work and being a mum. I feel so guilty to continue leaving them for so many hours. I don't think a part time solution is going to work any longer because of the surgery, as I am falling behind and I spend many of my unpaid days off at work 'catching up'. I enjoy my job but I am incredibly stressed and sad about the toll it is taking on us all- that I know will not end for many more years. What should I do?

Please don't quit. IYou've done so well to get to here. I think you'd regret it 15 years later. You need more support. You need a very good nanny feel starters. The quitting of the recent one has shocked you, but don't over react.

Presumably your Dh is already on a good salary having finished. More if the family money needs to be diverted to you right now, because you need the support.

Get extra lessons for your ds's reading.

Do you know that most, not all, but most kids can't remember their toddler hoods. Most can't remember pre school.

Mine can't remember all the times I took them to places when young. They have no idea I took them to .... Birdworld when they were 3. All they need is loving parents, cuddles, interested parents. You already have that.

In the end, Your'll be finished his stage.and your youngest will be fine in primary. Just see if you can get to this point.

Don’t retrain in a different speciality. It will be marginally less work and you won’t love it enough.

You're working so, so hard and for what? You work all hours, live in a flat with no garden and you're stressed to the eye balls. If you want to change direction or so for a couple of years, it's ok to do that. I wouldn't give up work entirely but as others have said is there another route you can go down to still get qualified? Become a surgeon when your dc are older?

Never the bloody man is it.
If I did this it would be good for the dc but my marriage would not survive the resentment that I lost my career and he carried on as before.

If my husband was a doctor, I'd have a little part time job in a shop or something,

Isn't it sad though that the conversation never seems to be around exploring possibilities of the man going part time or something? Always the woman with a nice little job.

OP only you can decide, it sounds like the workload is an unmanagable balancing act at the moment rather than you dislike the job itself. You must have worked extremely hard to get where you are, how would you feel, as has been said, when they're a bit older and don't need you as much, and you're left without a career? Make sure you consider what you actually want rather than what you feel you should do.

Don't give up, as others say try to find a solution that works, a young relative of mine has recently got into medical school, to see her excitement and enthusiasm is fantastic, I would hate to see all that be lost.

I gave up career (not medicine) ... no regrets at the time but believe me, being 62 & earning barely more than NMW, in a physically demanding job with no prospect of retiring is now my reality.

It's a very tough decision. I did not fulfil my career goals due to having three children close together and no family support after the first. I worked part time (allied health professional) and accepted less senior positions in less prestigious places and took a few years off at one stage. All of this damaged my career and I now work in a different role altogether. But I don't regret the time with my children as life would have been unbelievably stressful trying to carry on full time. They're all grown up now and I feel I have massively underachieved in my career but I also know they had me around when they needed me and our life was better quality back then than it would have been. Why not give yourself a break for a few years...who knows what will happen to training opportunities in the future for rejoining your medical career (they need more medics) or else you might find something else you enjoy?

Hi @doctormumoftwo consultant anaesthetist here, married to another consultant. If you love your job then do try and stick with it. Job satisfaction important and so is financial independence.
I’m sure with you both working together you can find a way through. You don’t say how close your husband is to finishing or his speciality but he can request to go part time as a consultant. This can be part time or perhaps he could job share.
We did all sort it strange combos when training and the kids were small eg cleaner doing school run for us. The kids have not been impacted.
I would say if your husband is not willing to think outside the box about his work then that is an issue and needs to be discussed.

*@Decentsalnotime *
*
Give it up
I did. Not a surgeon but full on financial job involving long commute and study.

No regrets.

The children now 8 and 10, and I’m back part time in local completely different job. Enjoy it, much lower pay, no stress*.

We are all different, but I hung in there and am very senior now but wasn't easy. I do see women that jumped to be a SAHM but regret it hugely from a career perspective later in life and find it so difficult and almost impossible to get back what they have lost, although accept they had more time with their children. As another poster put, as they get a little older they are less dependent.

Don't wast your years of training at this point. It does ease up when you become a consultant (friend of mine went through what you are going through)

What's the kindest most loving decision you can make - for you?

Pick that one.

@Indoctro

You cannot get the time back with your kids, they don't care about money or how successful you are all they just want you

I would quit and see if I could start over once they were teenagers.

I hate this. Your not talking about your personal experience your telling OP that she will lose ‘invaluable’ time with her kids. It’s drenched in guilt tripping and I wish other women would stop doing it to women.

I’ve been a stay at home mum. My brain died, what’s the point in years of schooling and education to give it up to be a nanny/cleaner/cook? . Why do women have to take the short straw? It’s wasn’t enough for me and women shouldn’t be guilt tripped in to thinking they should have to sacrifice them selves for their kids to be a good mother. I wonder if your dc father feels guilt that he goes to work?

Kids need, happy homes, warmth, cuddles, food and love. They don’t need a SAHP.

MitziK

Am I the only person here who thinks it's crazy to chuck away a career with lifelong financial independence for a man that might not be around in ten years' time?
It's not doing it for the children, it's doing it so he doesn't have to trouble himself with them.
Stick it out. That way, you wont be dependent upon a good lawyer getting a fair maintenance arrangement if it goes tits up.

Totally agree with this.
I don't understand why childcare has become only your issue to deal with. Your husband was equally responsible for the children's creation. He has to be supportive of your career just as you have been of his. If that means him going part time in a profession where men rarely go part time, so be it. It seems like you have a very sexist marriage where career sacrifices and childcare can only be done by you.
If you do leave everything, it would be for your husband and not for your children. If you find a great nanny and your husband loses his sexist attitude, would you still want to give up your career?
I agree with many posters here that being a SAHM is not for everyone. I know I couldn't do it. I cannot bear the monotony of it and I know I would rather be a happy mum spending quality time with the DC while having financial independence so that if my marriage does break up, I can continue the life DC are used to while sorting out the legal and financial aspects of my divorce.
You are as brilliant as your husband is. There is no reason why you should enable him to develop his career and he shouldn't do the same. Such sexism infuriates me.

Honestly? This sounds awful, but don’t take general advice from here (or make sure you really sieve out the people who have been in your position and really know what it’s like). Talk to other people who have actually been in your position. You need to sit down, with your DH, and have a warts and all discussion. There isn’t an easy answer to this: there are big pros and cons on either side. Think about finances (short and long term), think about how much being a surgeon means to you, think about what sort of life you have and and want to have for your kids. It’s a very personal decision.

@doctormumoftwo - I have PM’d you

Can you take a career break from your training? Maybe until they are both settled into primary school . To keep in touch with work updates maybe do research at home ,until you can go back . Good luck, I feel for you .

What do other surgeons do in your situation?

I wouldn't give up. You chose this career for a reason - it's not something you fall into, so don't let your passion and drive die because your husband won't compromise!

Also, your children get to see their mum being hardworking and dedicated and self sufficient and saving lives and achieving, and that might not mean anything to them at this age, but it will when they're older. Don't be kicking yourself in ~10 years when they're teenagers and hardly ever at home that you could be doing an interesting, varied, well paid career that you studied damn hard for and you gave it up.

You must have known when you chose surgery that it was going to be a slog, same with kids. This is that slog now - if you can push through, I think you'll be glad you did!

Speak to your husband and see if there's a compromise to be made - your career shouldn't be the only one affected by having children, that's not fair. If you can hire help in, do. If you can switch your child's school, do.

Feel for you OP, but I’d echo what others have said and keep your foot in if you can, instead of giving up on your career altogether.
@Decentsalnotime Judgemental much?

Do we say to men “give it up otherwise you will regret missing that time with your babies”? NO. Let’s stop putting guilt on women. We want our girls to have equality, we encourage them to get the A*s and study STEM, medicine and law yet Once they have babies we tell them to give it all up whilst reading boys continue to work. Is this fair?

Don’t give it up you have achieved what some people can only dream of. This years lots of kids couldn’t get into medicine because of the exam fiasco. Get yourself a full time nanny. Cleaner and gardener. Then enjoy those free days with your kids. As others have said I took mine to Bird world, farms, zoos etc when they were little and they honestly can’t even remember the trips to Disney land at all.

I hate this. Your not talking about your personal experience your telling OP that she will lose ‘invaluable’ time with her kids. It’s drenched in guilt tripping and I wish other women would stop doing it to women.

Yes I agree, I guess a lot use it to try and justify making the decision they made based upon what they want to do (which is absolutely great btw, what you want to do is important); but rather than just say that try and make a point about children suffering otherwise (they won't) and make it seem like a selfless act.

I'm a consultant in a different specialty. I have been where you are and my solution was to leave hospital medicine for an easier career path. That's been a great decision.

Please don't quit entirely. That's so extreme. It's throwing everything away. I hate to see women do that.
The underlying reason is patriarchy. The expectation that you should be the one to give up. There are other solutions that are better than that

If you quit altogether now you know it will be very hard to ever go back
You will be dependent on DH and that is not a good thing. Many medical marriages break up.
Your kids will grow up really quick. This hard bit doesn't last forever. Mine are at secondary school now and I am looking to get back to full time now as they just don't need me so much.

Could you

• look at another specialty. It isn't so hard to change to something unpopular and some of your existing training can be counted. Radiology? Pathology? A&E (shifts yes but do shift and go home. Unpopular. Loads of staff grade available). These have loads of vacancies
• take a staff grade job
• locum for a while
• take parental leave whilst you consider your options
• if you wait for DH to get his consultant job then you can move to a different part of the country where you can get a house on his bigger income and you can apply to a different specialty training scheme there.

Don't see it as x years to consultant
It doesn't matter if your training takes longer. I enjoyed the registrar years a lot. Competent enough to contribute a lot but not ultimately responsible.

Whatever you do please do not give up entirely. Yes something needs to change but to give up your whole career is such a shame.

I wouldn't give up your job, I'd push ahead til you qualify and then see how you feel. Then there's no regrets for your career

My mum gave up her job when I was born. She has always regretted it, and always made us aware that she regretted it. I would rather she had worked and was happy. She would have been a better mother that way.

I also have no idea what my parents would have done had my dad got ill/died/lost his job. As it was, they were very lucky and nothing happened, but they had everything riding on him having a successful career.

I have a full time, senior, intense job, and children. I would hate hate hate a ‘little job in a shop’ while my DH kept the good job and security that comes with it. I spend a ton on childcare, life is stressful, but I think it’s worth it.

@Naughtylittleflea
Thank you. I am glad someone said it. Retraining as a GP is not the easy option some posters suggest and not something to do unless you actively think you would love it. Yes, it is much more flexible and easier to work part time, but you’d be looking at 3 years training to qualify as a GP (or more like 5 years part time), still have to do hospital jobs first and the hours can be long. A day’s work is more like 7-7 and a “half day“ can be 7-4.

I don’t know what I think you should do OP. I do think it is a massive shame that there is still so much ingrained sexism in medicine that the options are quit or continue full time. I understand that although several posters have suggested it you can’t 1) become a surgeon when your children are older, 2) locum in surgery or 3) take 5 years out, but I don’t know what the answer is.

I am tempted to suggest you quit. Continuing as you are will mean you miss your children being young children which you may well regret. BUT as several others on here have pointed out, what about when they are teenagers/grown up and don’t want you around as much? And although I hate to be a voice of doom, what if you separated from your husband? would you regret being the one to have made the major sacrifice and given up the career you’ve dreamed of to be at home?

You could consider retraining in a more flexible specialty eg radiology, public health or in a medical educational role, or even quit medicine and work in the pharmaceutical industry but I think this has to be done as something you think you’ll actively like.

I am really sorry you’re in this position though and think it is so sad that in 2020 it’s still impossible to be able to balance being a surgeon and a being a mother.

Get a good nanny? Use face time/skype for the initial interview. Check references.