AIBU to give up a life's work to see my kids grow up

[doctormumoftwo]

I am thinking of leaving my job and I desperately need advice from other people who may have been in my position. I have two children who are 2 and 6. I work as a junior doctor/surgeon and am halfway through my training/exams. My DH is a full time a doctor. I love my job but it is very stressful. We could get by on DH salary alone but it would mean a big change in lifestyle (no holidays etc). I acknowledge I am very lucky to be in this position. I have been part time since I started but I am falling behind on my surgery and I have realised I can't continue part time as I need more surgical experience to gain competency. I also have final exams to take which means many hours of revision. I will be working flat out for the next 5 years minimum (nights, weekends, exams etc). Due to COVID our parents can not longer help regularly. It will be less stressful (but still demanding) as a consultant. DH cannot go part time to help. Despite the long hours we work, we can't afford private school, we live in a small flat with no garden. We will have to put the kids in school/nursery from 0745 - 6pm 5 days a week, or have a nanny for >50hrs for us to both work. My child's school is not great, there is not much community outside the school. My heart breaks for them, especially the 2 year old. I feel like I am sacrificing their childhood for my career. I have worked so hard to get where I am, invested money, time and incredible effort, but it feels like the demands of my job are just not compatible with being a decent mother. I don't know what to do. Our part time nanny recently quit handed in her notice. My child's reading is falling behind and they always ask me to play but I don't have the time to give them. I am thinking of giving up work and being a mum. I feel so guilty to continue leaving them for so many hours. I don't think a part time solution is going to work any longer because of the surgery, as I am falling behind and I spend many of my unpaid days off at work 'catching up'. I enjoy my job but I am incredibly stressed and sad about the toll it is taking on us all- that I know will not end for many more years. What should I do?

@Devlesko

A lot of early years childcare is dull and focused on cleaning up and preparing food.

Erm, no it's fun and watching your child progress through your activities is a huge reward.
If it's as described you'd best use proper childcare, coz you ain't got it, love.

Comparing with making people healthy again, yes, I'd say it's dull.

I get lots of joy out of watching ds grow, but quite frankly I do get more joy or as much from getting scientific results and watching my students grow too.
Children grow quickly and then you're left behind most times.

It's not even to be career driven, but we can leave our mark in the world other than through our children.

Well I obviously “ ain’t got it “ either as I didn’t enjoy scraping dried up puréed fruit and regurgitated milk off Various household surfaces .

My mother had very young children when she decided to build a school. So she did. She has seen thousands of children progress and grow and develop. Children who loved the school so much they are now sending their own children there. It's rewarding.

@Devlesko

A lot of early years childcare is dull and focused on cleaning up and preparing food.

Erm, no it's fun and watching your child progress through your activities is a huge reward.
If it's as described you'd best use proper childcare, coz you ain't got it, love.

I aint got it either. The early years are shite and school runs are such a poor use of my time I could cey over thr time lost in a sodding playground. I take my kids to activities so they develop into functioning happy adults. No so i can sit back and be rewarded My reward and pride is in providing a home for my kids and being a role model so they dont think getting a little job in a shop is aspirational while their husband gets the freedom and enjoyment of work. Love.

And i have learned that teenagers are disloyal and dont give a shit what you have done for them. So by that point you have sacrificed over 10 years to 'be rewarded' to then be treated like shit, moaned at, stuck clearing up their shit and paying them money for all the things they need. Then they leave.
I am looking forward to living again on my own having them flying on their own. What will you do when yours leave?

I enjoyed watching my children grow and progress but I didn’t need to give up work and be home all the time to do that. Believe it or not, parenting is something that’s done by people with jobs as well as those without.

It’s about striking a healthy balance in life so that we’re all able to develop all our talents, be they work-based or childcare/home- based.

And frankly, while being at home with young children is far more than scraping purée off the walls, changing nappies and running the hoover round, the fact is that if you have a set up with one WOHP and one SAHP, the majority of the mundane stuff will fall to the parent at home simply because it’s easier for them to do those things when they’re not going to work. I was only ever home full time on maternity leaves, but during those months I was the one doing the laundry, wiping up mess and prepping dinner- simply because I was there to do it.

So while I’ll well aware of the joys of watching children grow and learn, I’m conscious of the fact that that’s not something exclusive to parents who are home full time, and I’m equally conscious that quite honestly, a lot of the daily routine isn’t actually mind blowingly exciting. It’s necessary stuff but frankly I’m flipping relieved I wasn’t singlehandedly responsible for doing all the school runs, laundry, food shopping etc

@Showandtell1

And i have learned that teenagers are disloyal and dont give a shit what you have done for them. So by that point you have sacrificed over 10 years to 'be rewarded' to then be treated like shit, moaned at, stuck clearing up their shit and paying them money for all the things they need. Then they leave. I am looking forward to living again on my own having them flying on their own. What will you do when yours leave?

Hmmm That’s really not everyone’s experience

I recently dropped my hours at work so that I now work a 4.5 day week over 4 days, so I have an extra day at home with DS. It's lovely and I'm really glad I did it but mostly because it's really nice for me to have a day with less rushing and to chill out and to spend with him. I haven't noticed that I suddenly have 50% more memories of him - how does that work, that if I read him ten books a day at the weekend, so 20 a week, I won't remember the cute way he turns the pages and joins in with the ones he knows but if I do it 30 times I will? Or is it just that I still don't get the memories because I'm still the dreadful working mother so I really need to do it 70 times a week to have a hope of remembering it?

What is blissful is that DH now also works a four day week, and it is so nice having a day where I work but don't worry about nursery drop-offs and where dinner is made before I even stop work. We also did shared parental leave and the four months where I was at work and he wasn't were probably the easiest of parenthood. So I totally get why so many men suddenly discover an ideological commitment to someone (the woman, of course) being at home with the children, it's why so many women find it so attractive that I find a bit baffling.

@Lweji

When did wanting to look after your own child become a low aspiration?

It is, if it's all you want to do in your day.
Even more so if you're giving up years of training.

Mums with jobs and careers also look after their children, you know? They won't cry for the caregiver or the nanny at night or if they're ill.

I disagree with you. I don't think wanting to look after your own children all day is having low aspirations. I pity anyone who thinks it is.

I don't think it's an aspiration as much as a want or a choice (hopefully, some are obviously forced to due to other circumstances). Anyone could stay at home, I feel sad if girls have staying at home with my children as their aspiration growing up.

We have according to the latest report the unhappiest children in Europe .
It was put down to poverty in uk but the happiest children were in poorer countries where parents weren’t working full time . Denmark had the happiest children. They have a culture of more part time work too.

So if you feel guilty then step back for a few years . Raising happy children is far more important than a career . I went back to work when my children started school and stopped when I realised it wasn’t helping them - it was all about me and this belief we all have to be out there earning ( and paying tax - so governments promote that idea) Luckily I had them young and have been able to go on a start my own successful business . All your stress feeds to the children and husband with all that entails .

You can also cook better meals and shop more economically . It never ceased to amaze me what we could manage without . Obviously this is not a criticism of mums/ dads who have to work but there is def a culture against the SAHM .

Anyway - think your answer is in above report 😊

If my husband was a doctor, I'd have a little part time job in a shop or something, and pick my child up from school every day!

But OP is also a doctor. She hasn’t just married one. I don’t know much about the medical career path but I am guessing she has already spent many years and many thousands of pounds on getting to this point. She also enjoys her job.

There is another thread currently active on here which was started by a mum who has a ‘little part-time job’. Guess what, she isn’t super happy.

Also why is the phrase ‘little part-time job’ SO irritating?

It was put down to poverty in uk but the happiest children were in poorer countries where parents weren’t working full time . Denmark had the happiest children. They have a culture of more part time work too.

Denmark is a very wealthy country with a very large proportion of women in work and heavily subsidised childcare. It’s often held up as a beacon of gender equality.

@annabelindajane

We have according to the latest report the unhappiest children in Europe . It was put down to poverty in uk but the happiest children were in poorer countries where parents weren’t working full time . Denmark had the happiest children. They have a culture of more part time work too.

So if you feel guilty then step back for a few years . Raising happy children is far more important than a career . I went back to work when my children started school and stopped when I realised it wasn’t helping them - it was all about me and this belief we all have to be out there earning ( and paying tax - so governments promote that idea) Luckily I had them young and have been able to go on a start my own successful business . All your stress feeds to the children and husband with all that entails .

You can also cook better meals and shop more economically . It never ceased to amaze me what we could manage without . Obviously this is not a criticism of mums/ dads who have to work but there is def a culture against the SAHM .

Anyway - think your answer is in above report 😊

Yeah as a pp said Denmark is one of the wealthiest countries in the world. They have amazing parental leave policies which means that both parents are incentivised to take time off when kids are born, but the flip side is that the vast vast majority of women then return to work. They have excellent childcare, ie what the OP and her husband should be aiming for.

It was 25yrs ago but I have a friendwho qualified as a doctor and hated it and became a beautician out of her house when she had young children. Then all the cosmetic procedures took off and she now has a very successful business. It might not be for you but she can sneer right back at those who thought she wasted her education.

It might not be for you but she can sneer right back at those who thought she wasted her education.

Well she didn't waste it if she has gone on to do cosmetic procedures, surely?

Also OP doesn't hate her job.

‘ Raising happy children is far more important than a career‘

Never said to men.

‘In contrast, the approximately equal numbers of male and female physicians in Scandinavia have coincided with the emergence of progressive work–life policies, the belief that motherhood and employment can be combined, and changing expectations of work-life balance.’

Denmark does raise happy children (generally) but importantly realises the above.

There’s still a drop off for some specialities though. The op has done very well so far. I’m glad to hear the update.

We have according to the latest report the unhappiest children in Europe .
It was put down to poverty in uk but the happiest children were in poorer countries where parents weren’t working full time . Denmark had the happiest children. They have a culture of more part time work too.

I'm sure that is probably a very simplistic view to say parents not working make for happier children. UK children start formal school much younger than other countries, where they spend more time in nursery / kindergarten. We have some of the biggest class sizes. Vast differences in wealth, long hours, long commutes.

But you know what I'm sure kids would be happier in the comfort of knowing there's plenty food in the cupboard but mum and dad are working than mum and dad both at home relying on the food bank.

Don't take it for granted that Dad will always be fit enough to be the breadwinner.

The employment rate of women with children is quite a bit higher in Denmark than in the UK. So children of working mothers must be happier?

My DH very vocally wanted me to stay in work when our first DC and then our second was born. I didn’t want to stop working but I couldn’t put them in nursery or leave them with a nanny and he couldn’t, and didn’t think it necessary, to cut back his work to be at home with the children. My old job is notoriously incompatible with any form of hands-on parenting. The percentage of men at the top of the tree Is in the high 90s.

A decade later, and while I have at times found being with the children so boring and dull as to want to make me run away, it’s suddenly got a whole lot easier. I have time in my hands for the first time. I’m sure that quitting work was the right decision (DH still thinks “it would have been fine if we’d had a nanny” - which it would have, for him and no doubt for the DC too, but not for me). I’m looking forward to putting the skills I trained for 7 years to acquire, and put into practice for 14 years, to use in a way that allows me to have it all now. Perhaps part-time paid work in the not-for-profit sector, perhaps voluntary work, perhaps studying. For pleasure.

I will say that the woman I am now is quite different from the one I was 10 years ago. I haven’t lost ambition. I’m just ambitious across all parts of my life now, and also have ageing parents who require care. I don’t have laser focus on my career to the exclusion of all else. For me, this is a much more balanced, and healthier way to be in my 40s. I have no regrets.

You can also cook better meals and shop more economically . It never ceased to amaze me what we could manage without . Obviously this is not a criticism of mums/ dads who have to work but there is def a culture against the SAHM .

Newsflash.
It doesn't have to be either or.

We can work full time and still prepare healthy meals that don't take hours in the kitchen.

We may work full time, but not the long hours that would take us to the top.

The culture of working long hours with poor work-life balance is the main problem.

But there are other choices we can make.
For example, I've chosen to spend more time with DS than going out or with friends, for example. We did similar activities or I went to and socialised with parents at his activities.
I didn't send him to bed at 6pm because I needed adult time.
It was never a problem for me to stay with him in bed till he fell asleep because it was a good time to chat.
He has actually been exposed to my work environment and colleagues, which is so much more enriching than home. (We've still gone to too many museums and parks, in his opinion )

I came on to say that Denmark also has heavily subsidised childcare and a culture of better gender equality than the UK and many other places, but I see others have pointed that all out too. Happier children is not all down to part-time work, and it certainly isn't all down to women forgoing or giving up careers.