AIBU to give up a life's work to see my kids grow up

[doctormumoftwo]

I am thinking of leaving my job and I desperately need advice from other people who may have been in my position. I have two children who are 2 and 6. I work as a junior doctor/surgeon and am halfway through my training/exams. My DH is a full time a doctor. I love my job but it is very stressful. We could get by on DH salary alone but it would mean a big change in lifestyle (no holidays etc). I acknowledge I am very lucky to be in this position. I have been part time since I started but I am falling behind on my surgery and I have realised I can't continue part time as I need more surgical experience to gain competency. I also have final exams to take which means many hours of revision. I will be working flat out for the next 5 years minimum (nights, weekends, exams etc). Due to COVID our parents can not longer help regularly. It will be less stressful (but still demanding) as a consultant. DH cannot go part time to help. Despite the long hours we work, we can't afford private school, we live in a small flat with no garden. We will have to put the kids in school/nursery from 0745 - 6pm 5 days a week, or have a nanny for >50hrs for us to both work. My child's school is not great, there is not much community outside the school. My heart breaks for them, especially the 2 year old. I feel like I am sacrificing their childhood for my career. I have worked so hard to get where I am, invested money, time and incredible effort, but it feels like the demands of my job are just not compatible with being a decent mother. I don't know what to do. Our part time nanny recently quit handed in her notice. My child's reading is falling behind and they always ask me to play but I don't have the time to give them. I am thinking of giving up work and being a mum. I feel so guilty to continue leaving them for so many hours. I don't think a part time solution is going to work any longer because of the surgery, as I am falling behind and I spend many of my unpaid days off at work 'catching up'. I enjoy my job but I am incredibly stressed and sad about the toll it is taking on us all- that I know will not end for many more years. What should I do?

Plus, can your husband really not ltft in his current role? I'm struggling to think of any role where it's impossible? I bet a woman has or could ltft it.

SO happy to read the OP’s update.

OP you have worked most of your life for this and you love your job. Your patients are lucky to have you. As so many pps have said the childcare issues are joint ones and it’s great you now see this. It’s entirely fair that your DH should step up while you need him to. You can both then go full steam ahead when the DCs are older.

I’m in a similar-ish position (another lawyer, not dr) with a DH in a different but demanding career. DS is only 2 and I’m about to go on mat leave with our second and fully prepared for the tough years ahead. But having taken mat leave I know that being a SAHM is not for me, and it’s so much better for my children if I’m happy, fulfilled, can devote the time I have to be fully present with them (rather than regretting it and doing housework) and have the money to give us all a comfortable life (though also in London and by no means luxury!).

The post from hazelbite really resonates.

I went full time parent and have been for four years.

One of my children really needs me.

My dc is super super super challenging and takes me completely for granted so it is completely unrewarding.

My husband works the most ridiculous hours 7 days a week.

My husband has not had a pay rise in 4 years.

All my savings are gone.

Although I know I am doing the right thing by my child has all sorts of undiagnosed behaviour issues and we can't afford any private help and we don't have wider family and he isn't bad enough for anything on the nhs.

I also end up with all the housework - and all the maintenance and I don't get much sleep just like when I was working long hours. It is quite a big thing where everything is down to you in terms of a house and your children. Everything apart from the wage your Dh brings in and all his unpaid overtime is ridiculous.

If I were you I would hang in there and I am glad you are.

It is a very small world being a sahm and especially small during covid.

I also get to look after other children for free all the time because I am a nice person and I am around. No one tend to reciprocate the favour. I have given up now any school volunteering ( the pfa truly suck anyhow).

As soon as I can get my dc in a better place I will be going back to work and I also realise it will not be at the level and amount of money I was earning previously.

Also think about all the activities or schooling you can afford if you are both working. Things always get more expensive.

Best of luck.

I wouldn't quit, I'd find a better nanny, I think you'll regret it long term.

Also a fellow big job mum and I now have teen DS, I used childcare and suffered the mum guilt but you know what I'm now in a position of earning so well, being able to step back as I have employees and spend time with them as teens, I obviously loved them to bits from birth but my career choice has allowed us as a family to really enjoy time now they are older, they are totally ok with me and that I worked so hard, we travel together and really enjoy the family time.

It's just the stage of being overwhelmed and I understand that.

I agree it is about being overwhelmed.

I also wish I had put it in perspective.

I worked huge hours but I was compensated.

The cleaner where I worked were on minimum wage and working ridiculously long hours to make it work.

@Bravefarts gprecruitment.hee.nhs.uk/choose-gp/retrain/Dr-Chris-Lutterodt

Here is an ST3 in core surgery, his experience counted towards GP training. Only cuts training from 3 to 2.5, but it’s still something.

I just asked my kids (now secondary age) if they wished I didn't work and was at home with them more when they were smaller.

DD said 'nah not really. What would we have done for money then?' Mercenary teen

DS said 'obviously I wish you were around all day to hug (charmer that he is) but actually I liked after school club a lot of the time'

To be fair they sometimes did complain at the time about going to clubs and me not always being there for assemblies etc but they don't appear to remember it now. I always compensated with really good birthday parties (which made them popular with peers), days out and holidays which they do remember. Swings and roundabouts I reckon

Op really glad you have spoken up about your concerns. I hope you are able to find a path forward.

Good luck, and if it's any comfort little kids don't really have great memories but they still know who's mum!

I would give up the job, as I did it, it is so tough to decide what's best for your family.

I looked at it that I would always regret not being there for them more than being there. But ultimately it all depends on you and your priorities, no one can tell you what will be best for you but my experience is being at home makes me truly happy and is best for our family.

I was not maternal but it was by far the best decision I ever made, we have a great time and I just adore spending all that time with him. We are hardly ever in the house through the day as we go for days out, I'm still close to my friends so see them when I want and do any research or studies of an evening.

Do you want strangers raising your children? If they are away from you10+ hours per day, you have already chosen this. It would be better to take some time off until both children are older. If you don't have family to help, this is not sustainable.

What a ridiculous comment 'Do you want strangers raising your children?'. A well loved nanny, childminder etc is not a 'stranger'. No one says 'Do you want strangers teaching your children at school?'.

I was a SAHM for many years - but if you compare my DS (now 19) with his friends - you can't tell who had a SAHM or a mum who worked outside the home - he and all his mates are confident, articulate young men making their way in life whether that be University, first job or an apprenticeship. I am sure he doesn't even remember or care that I sat through so many utterly tedious years of school performances and Nativity plays. .

OP - I am glad you have some plans in place to continue your career.

Do you want strangers raising your children?

Do you want 'strangers' operating on you and saving your life? Because I do. I owe both my own life and my son's to people who went all the way through medical training and gained the skills to stop me and my baby dying in childbirth. And I didn't stop the anaesthetist and the surgeon to check who was looking after their children as they worked.

@Ericaequites

Do you want strangers raising your children? If they are away from you10+ hours per day, you have already chosen this. It would be better to take some time off until both children are older. If you don't have family to help, this is not sustainable.

How about her husband quits then? She’s not a single parent. And no, it wouldn’t be “strangers” and they wouldn’t be “raising” her children - it would be someone that parents and children knew and trusted, who was qualified and experienced.

Do you think all families should have a stay at home parent, or is it just women you think should shoulder childcare alone?

It's great that you have a plan @doctormumoftwo but is your DH on board with it? From what you have said he might very well refuse to go PT to enable you to finish your training. He's already said he doesn't feel the same the guilt as you. I wish you all the very best of luck

@Ericaequites

Do you want strangers raising your children? If they are away from you10+ hours per day, you have already chosen this. It would be better to take some time off until both children are older. If you don't have family to help, this is not sustainable.

Strangers raised my children 12 hours a day 4 days a week, they were in school the other 3. I have a good job. I am respected by other parents and teachers. My kids are proud of me. When they are young they don't know the difference-they know what they experience that is all. And they don't remember it much later. It is us who feel guilt and regret. Guilt and regret don't give us pensions though, or pay a mortgage or give us security. Jobs do. Especially careers, especially when you are a doctor. It isn't a 'choice' for a stranger to care for your child. It is normal and necessary for women to have careers and their own security. If you choose to be a SAHM then great. But bear in mind how insecure that is if you separate or divorce, when you've no work history for years and given away your personality and identity to do school runs and groups.

This is what sabbaticals, OOPT, OOPE etc are for. All female doctors find this stage tough with kids. Everyone.

Talk to your TPD - there are options beyond quitting or working FT. You CAN take a sabbatical for a year, one of my friends did it, now a cardiothoracic anaesthetist at Barts so didn’t old her back at all.

A good half of my female colleagues went into research/education fellow/Chief Reg jobs to give themselves a bit of a break from FT training (and yes a PhD is significantly less demanding than a full time training post).

Talk to your TPD, tell them you are burning out and need some time out of programme, and think of some plausible way to fill the time so they can approve it.

OP, I'm glad you have gained some support and ideas from this thread. I have a friend who is a surgeon and mum of two DC a little older than yours. She is a great mum and no doubt an excellent surgeon - she is also the first person who I'd ask for help if I was in serious trouble because she is kind and very competent - the very epitome of 'if you need something done ask a busy person'! She has a husband who mucks in though and at times has put his career second to hers. Just think of all those people who helped you and supported you along the way (and the people who will be inspired by you in future). You have found something you really want to do - some people never find that. I could give up work but I get a lot of intellectual stimulation from my career (teaching) and feel that I'm contributing to other DC as well as mine. Gosh it was hard when our DC was little though.

Koru Kids is a good agency. We've just hired a nanny from them and they do all the tax etc.

And keep working on that DH. It would be very good for society if more men had insight into the issues of doing professional jobs part time.

Am so pleased you have found a solution that will work for you. If it makes you feel any better I worked all the time my DC were small. We had a fabulous FT live out nanny who stayed for about 6 years and whilst she cost a fortune to employ, we all loved her.

I am now on the verge or retirement and my adult DC say they have never felt they lost out through me working - they are also lucky that my job has funded them through university and paid for cars and holidays. When I point out that I used to worry that I never baked them a birthday cake they just look at me blankly - there was always a cake but they never considered where it had come from

Its a tough one OP.

I’m not a doctor. I think it simply boils down to what you want the most? You can’t get them memories or children stages back

I wouldn't give up and certainly not entirely. I've been in a similar place to you. You may want to consider your options within surgery/medicine and opt for a speciality that has less on call commitment, for example. It's difficult to chose a speciality when we have no dependents and it's not a failure to change track slightly. Many of my friends have swapped into radiology for example.

You can keep going, however and you will get through these awful years of heartbreak. I echo the person who said get the best childcare you can afford. These young years do pass quickly and you've already sacrificed a lot to get where you are. I'm just not sure how you would feel when the kids are more independent if you gave up completely.

The kids will grow up and I don't believe they will be scarred because you weren't at home. A lot of studies show that the level of education in the mother is directly proportional to the level achieved by the children. So, don't worry about the reading is what I'm getting at. I don't think I've ever seen anyone raising their eyebrows and saying, "Mother's a surgeon, of course her child was wayward!"

Best of luck.

You cannot get those years with your children back. I would thrash out every possible permutation of job splitting/ location change/ alternative career to spend time with them. Even as teens mine appreciate me being around and it means far more to me than being at the pinnacle of my profession

Do you want strangers raising your children? If they are away from you10+ hours per day, you have already chosen this. It would be better to take some time off until both children are older. If you don't have family to help, this is not sustainable.

Do children stop needing you as they get a bit older? Personally I don't remember being a toddler or even the first few years of primary school, many people leave work for themselves. Nought wrong with that, but many children thrive in childcare with those 'strangers'.

@Sally2791

You cannot get those years with your children back. I would thrash out every possible permutation of job splitting/ location change/ alternative career to spend time with them. Even as teens mine appreciate me being around and it means far more to me than being at the pinnacle of my profession

You can’t get any time back. The OP cannot freeze her medical training, or revisit it later, so she can’t ‘get it back’ either.

Why not Locum for a bit? Pay is awful at the moment anyway and at least keep your hand in. You could be a Speciality Doctor? I think two Doctors requires a lot of sacrifice. It can be done but Surgery is a different kettle of fish.

You can't get the memories back? Of toilet training and no life of your own? And not being able to go to the loo on your own? mmmmm Your DH needs to step up OP.