AIBU to give up a life's work to see my kids grow up

[doctormumoftwo]

I am thinking of leaving my job and I desperately need advice from other people who may have been in my position. I have two children who are 2 and 6. I work as a junior doctor/surgeon and am halfway through my training/exams. My DH is a full time a doctor. I love my job but it is very stressful. We could get by on DH salary alone but it would mean a big change in lifestyle (no holidays etc). I acknowledge I am very lucky to be in this position. I have been part time since I started but I am falling behind on my surgery and I have realised I can't continue part time as I need more surgical experience to gain competency. I also have final exams to take which means many hours of revision. I will be working flat out for the next 5 years minimum (nights, weekends, exams etc). Due to COVID our parents can not longer help regularly. It will be less stressful (but still demanding) as a consultant. DH cannot go part time to help. Despite the long hours we work, we can't afford private school, we live in a small flat with no garden. We will have to put the kids in school/nursery from 0745 - 6pm 5 days a week, or have a nanny for >50hrs for us to both work. My child's school is not great, there is not much community outside the school. My heart breaks for them, especially the 2 year old. I feel like I am sacrificing their childhood for my career. I have worked so hard to get where I am, invested money, time and incredible effort, but it feels like the demands of my job are just not compatible with being a decent mother. I don't know what to do. Our part time nanny recently quit handed in her notice. My child's reading is falling behind and they always ask me to play but I don't have the time to give them. I am thinking of giving up work and being a mum. I feel so guilty to continue leaving them for so many hours. I don't think a part time solution is going to work any longer because of the surgery, as I am falling behind and I spend many of my unpaid days off at work 'catching up'. I enjoy my job but I am incredibly stressed and sad about the toll it is taking on us all- that I know will not end for many more years. What should I do?

I love my kids and get a lot of fulfilment spending time with them

But you know what I love my job too. I get a big high from making a tough diagnosis, getting a good treatment plan in place and making people better. I come home bouncing when I have a good day doing all that.

I am at least as good a Dr as any of the men I know and actually better than most of them ( some of them even admit it :) There is no reason why my patients and I should miss out on me using my skills because society says I have to be the main parent. I refuse to agree to that.

And All this 'you'll miss out, you can never get it back' I just don't really understand. My best times with my kids are just ongoing every day. Today DD and I went to get our hair cut and go shopping together as we both had a day off. I enjoyed that time with her just as much as anything we did when she was littler.
We talk about stuff that is actually interesting to us both now.

Friends who are SAHMs don't appear to have any closer relationship to their kids than I do with mine. I think we have plenty of quality time and some money to outsource the drudgery.

Any downside that I have ie guilty feelings, judgement from others is mostly a product of crap outdated stereotypes and expectations I reckon and I hope future generations won't have to put up with it and men and women can both be genuinely free to share work and parenting any way that suits them without gender coming into it.

@Decentsalnotime but she doesn't want to give up her job. So why should she have to give hers up completely if he's not willing to compromise so that they can both work and do what they love? Isn't that what being a partnership is about?

Tongue in cheek suggestion but how about this for a radical plan OP

You have another baby
You thereby get some time out
But you make DH do shared parental leave
That way you get to experience being the full time worker and him the full time parent for at least a few months
This results in reset expectations and then you both work 80%.

@BoomBoomsCousin

So you've been part time for 6 years already but your DH just can't possibly go part time and so you're going to give up your career entirely?

I think you'd probably end up regretting it. I realize it will be grueling and you will hardly see your children until they are 11 and 7. But if you give up you will likely feel pretty unfulfilled in 3 years time when they are both in school 5 days a week.

This

@Morgan12

Honestly I would give it up.

You won't be lying on your death bed wishing you had worked more.

In the OPs position if I gave it up I bloody would!!! I’d be in my care home in my dotage shouting “I could have bern a bloody surgeon you know” at anyone who would listen

Most of the millions who feel guilty are female and most of the millions who don't are male and this is no coincidence

This is not a free choice arena. It's so heavily loaded with gendered expectations that you have to actively look and question them to see if especially if you, as the man, are the one benefitting from them

Has your husband already completed his training? If so could he reduce his hours and take on more childcare so you can progress your career?

You won't be lying on your death bed wishing you had worked more.

The people who say this are invariably people who are simply not work-focused, or don't do work they find meaningful or enjoyable.

You won't be lying on your death bed wishing you had worked more.

But she and many of us could end up on our deathbed, or, worse, alone at home, wishing we hadn't given up work.

I'd certainly lose part of my identity as a person if I wasn't in my chosen career. Or if I didn't have a life independent of my child (who is now perfectly happy leading his own with minimal input from me considering his age).
I'd be smothering him.

I promise I won't be lying on my death bed wishing I had spent more time changing nappies and arguing why one should eat their broccoli. Small children are hard work.

@MagMell

You won't be lying on your death bed wishing you had worked more.

The people who say this are invariably people who are simply not work-focused, or don't do work they find meaningful or enjoyable.

I agree. Many people lament the lack of accomplishment or a worthy career in old age. There's more to life than the nuclear family.

I'm so pleased to read your update OP. There is so much support and as someone currently in a new, demanding full time job, it really is encouraging to see how others have come out the other side (and also tips for making it easier)

I am so glad to read that you are not going to give up OP. It would such a waste. Raising children should be a shared responsibility not simply left to women to juggle both career and children's needs.

And well done, OP. Delighted you are going to persevere. Very best wishes for the rest of your training.

Right my love.
I don't know how to PM but if you do maybe you could PM me if you feel I could help you.

Without being too outing I have been there and am now out the other side.
And I now do a session for the deanery to help trainees exactly like you.

1. what resources does your local deanery have for LTFT trainees - check the website and see as there's been alot of money in this recently.
2. also check the deanery for general support such as resilience training, coaching and mentoring, trainee support groups and networks etc.
3. surgery is a whole different ballgame - especially for women and I know there are support networks set up by other female trainees and recently qualified consultants to try to tackle some of the issues they struggled with. See if you can access this (Facebook/ other trainees / other trainees in different deaneries)
4. if there is absolutely no provision in your deanery for LTFT trainee support ask if you can access the RTW support because there's alot of cross over. There should be a LTFT champion an if not then a RTW champion.
5. I am happy to do distance mentoring with you if this helps.

Not to put pressure on you but to help you find the support to make the right decision for you now and you in the future.
Xx

Hi OP, I’m really pleased you’ve decided to carry on and that you’ve had such supportive advice on here. I read your OP and was going to post that I think you should carry on but see what support might be available. I’m not in medicine but in law which I think has some parallels and it is just so hard.

This isn’t useful advice but I just wanted you to know that I had a friend at primary school whose mum was an obstetrician. Whilst my friend was definitely aware that her mum wasn’t around as much as our mums were (this was the early 90s), she was just so incredibly proud of her mummy. Not in an obnoxious way - in a really sweet way. Her mum also gave a talk to our class once about her job and we were all in absolute awe of her.

I know that’s not useful advice but you shouldn’t see it as your career vs your children. Try and see it more as your career for your children.

@doctormumoftwo does the training that you have done already not count towards GP training ?

I’m a mature student - hopefully starting F1 next year and I plan to pursue family medicine because I feel like most other specialities are not conducive to a decent work life balance and you have more choice in terms of location. TBH when talking frankly to senior colleagues they agree if that’s what you want( work life balance), it’s the best choice.

Hope you find a solution and for what it’s worth I don’t think you should give up! I’m sure your children will be thankful to have such an brilliant role model.

GP training is needed to learn to be a GP. Surgery training teaches you to be a surgeon. Of course she'd need to do GP training.

GPs often work 12 hour days, this can be difficult around a family.

Another poster mentioned psychiatry, that can be family friendly, but, again, compete retrain, really.

Path can be good for surgeons who wish to have nicer hours.

But really, OP needs to get out of this idea that hubby's career is more important. Is it bollocks. He can apply to be LTFT.

Oh, OP. I feel so for you.

It is so, so hard and there’s no right answer.

I wouldn’t give up work while you don’t like your housing situation - you’ll just get so depressed.

Could you move? Somewhere bigger with a large garden and better local school? That might help overall.

Is there an area of medicine you could move sideways in to, then return to surgery and exams etc when both DC are in school?

You’ll never get these years back with them, but equally if you give up your career you’ll regret it later.

If there’s an option to just keep your medical licence and do some bank shifts (if that’s a thing for doctors), I’d do that for a couple of years. But for the love of God don’t quit completely- you’d regret it when they’re older.

*TheId

Tongue in cheek suggestion but how about this for a radical plan OP

You have another baby
You thereby get some time out
But you make DH do shared parental leave
That way you get to experience being the full time worker and him the full time parent for at least a few months
This results in reset expectations and then you both work 80%*

I know you said you're being tongue in cheek but OP this is pretty much what made my OH and I reassess things. He took some shared leave and returned at 80% as ST6 in a surgical job. I'm so glad to read your updates and that you're starting to put a plan together. I think the 2 of you getting on the same page about what you want from the future will be so important too.

I gave up work and I'm glad I did. I commend mums who manage, but I couldn't. I was stressed and knackered. Not good for family life and I hated feeling like that so I got off the treadmill. Once DCs had been at secondary school for a couple of years, I raised back into work. I'm glad I took time out with them, childhood flies by.

@doctormumoftwo great update, well done for taking everything on board and good luck with everything. Am sure you’ll nail it!

Sounds like yet another case of the man’s career being prioritised. What happens if you break up and have given up your career. It will get easier just stick with it and get your husband to properly research flex potential in his role

@Theld

I am at least as good a Dr as any of the men I know and actually better than most of them ( some of them even admit it smile There is no reason why my patients and I should miss out on me using my skills because society says I have to be the main parent. I refuse to agree to that.

Yes! So much this. When you read articles about gender issues in design (crash worthiness for example) and other issues, one which often crops up is diagnosis of women. We desperately need more women in roles that address these issues, for all our sakes.

OP, I've read your update. Sorry, I responded to the posts that appear to be under the misconception you can just change from surgery to GP with little retraining, and that GP is "family friendly" (common thinking. Not particularly true, especially for GP partners)

Reading your update, I'm glad you're realising your equal status. He made those kids. He's a medic dad, it's time he acted like one, applied for LTFT, and yes, took on the home for four years while you crack on a bit. What did he think having kids would be like? It involves lots of parenting. Your career matters as much as his. If he wants to pay a nanny to do his bit, he can, but make sure he takes on the mental load of that, etc.

Your kids will be proud of what you do. Your husband should be proud to support your career.

There are surgeon mums. They're good mums. Connect with them. There's more to life than picking up dirty socks.