AIBU to give up a life's work to see my kids grow up

[doctormumoftwo]

I am thinking of leaving my job and I desperately need advice from other people who may have been in my position. I have two children who are 2 and 6. I work as a junior doctor/surgeon and am halfway through my training/exams. My DH is a full time a doctor. I love my job but it is very stressful. We could get by on DH salary alone but it would mean a big change in lifestyle (no holidays etc). I acknowledge I am very lucky to be in this position. I have been part time since I started but I am falling behind on my surgery and I have realised I can't continue part time as I need more surgical experience to gain competency. I also have final exams to take which means many hours of revision. I will be working flat out for the next 5 years minimum (nights, weekends, exams etc). Due to COVID our parents can not longer help regularly. It will be less stressful (but still demanding) as a consultant. DH cannot go part time to help. Despite the long hours we work, we can't afford private school, we live in a small flat with no garden. We will have to put the kids in school/nursery from 0745 - 6pm 5 days a week, or have a nanny for >50hrs for us to both work. My child's school is not great, there is not much community outside the school. My heart breaks for them, especially the 2 year old. I feel like I am sacrificing their childhood for my career. I have worked so hard to get where I am, invested money, time and incredible effort, but it feels like the demands of my job are just not compatible with being a decent mother. I don't know what to do. Our part time nanny recently quit handed in her notice. My child's reading is falling behind and they always ask me to play but I don't have the time to give them. I am thinking of giving up work and being a mum. I feel so guilty to continue leaving them for so many hours. I don't think a part time solution is going to work any longer because of the surgery, as I am falling behind and I spend many of my unpaid days off at work 'catching up'. I enjoy my job but I am incredibly stressed and sad about the toll it is taking on us all- that I know will not end for many more years. What should I do?

I am overwhelmed by all the replies on this thread. Thank you. I have never posted on Mumsnet and I didn't know what to expect, it was 4am and I was at my wits end. I am so grateful to everyone posting such thoughtful, considerate posts, I have read all of them and the feeling of support has been incredibly uplifting. I never expected to feel so buoyed by an online thread! Thank you so much. I thought I might get 5 replies. I have received a wealth of helpful advice. It has helped hugely and I feel much clearer on both my feelings and the possible ways forward.

For anyone that wondered, I do love my job. I am not sick of it. I love my specialty and I would rather see it out than retrain in another. It's just very very demanding right now and I miss the kids and with the nanny suddenly leaving it feels like its all falling apart at the seams, mum guilt consuming me, exam looming. If I didn't have kids there would be no issue, I would already be a consultant. But WE do have kids and hearing so many people speak so strongly about DH stepping up was a real eye opener. Hearing also from those who had regrets later, especially related to divorce was sobering and wasn't something that had crossed my mind. I called my TPD (supervisor) this morning and she understands about my need for extra surgery and has juggled my timetable to allow more. This has taken the pressure off me having to increase my hours to get it (for the short term). I am ST3 at 60% LTFT. DH is 18 months off CCT (finishing to be a consultant) but is currently in a very particular post that cannot be LTFT. He can be LTFT after this when he finishes, which I will encourage (he may not like this but after reading the posts I think will have to seriously consider it).
In terms of work, in the short term- I will find a good nanny and carry on part time for 12 months, I can take this penultimate exam and go 100% after that for ST4-7. I will try to insist that he takes a part time consultant post (in 18 months) and holds the fort for those 4 years. The problem is he doesn't see there being a problem with us both being full time. He doesn't particularly want to be part time and doesn't think the kids need it. I think they do.

In terms of location, we are in London, hence the small flat and no garden. I won't be given permission to transfer elsewhere unless he gets a permanent job somewhere and he doesn't know where he will get one so moving house/schools is tricky (I need to be near my work for the early operating list/on calls), but those that picked up on the home situation were right, we need to find an alternative with more space and a garden, I am not sure how we will, but I will start looking for something that might be manageable.

Thank you to everyone for helping me see a way forward with this. I love my children to bits but hearing so many working mums tell me its all going to be ok, and keep going and their kids are fine, really really helped. Thank you so much. Wishing support and clarity to all those who are also struggling with the difficult decisions and situations they are faced with. xx

As others have pointed out, but for the opposite argument, childhood is only a few years. Then what?

I've worked full time and still managed to be an important part of DS's life.
We have a good relationship in his teens, although he's not the most talkative ever.
Being a SAHM doesn't guarantee you will have a good or better relationship with your children.
And it won't guarantee any academic or professional success either. Independence is better, IMO, than by having helicopter parents that end up having very little in their lives beyond their children's lives.

You can have your career and have quality time with your children.
You just need to ensure more support.

Cross-post.
Very pleased with your update.
I hope all turns out well, and I'm sure it will.

The problem is he doesn't see there being a problem with us both being full time. He doesn't particularly want to be part time and doesn't think the kids need it. I think they do.
Do you carry him op? tell him to find a nanny. If you are both full time that kind of thing will fall to you equally. While you’re at it make sure he is cooking several times a week (or planning, freezing and reheating) tidying toys and doing the washing. Are there vaccinations due? His job. He won’t get it unless he does it, and the admin as well.
I plan to pick a year and have dh organise all holiday camps, not my problem. I will take a reasonably negotiated amount of leave just as he does now. We are doing bits and pieces around the house and I realise I’ve carried him so far so I’m stepping back from that. Some of its time sensitive but I think he will get that. You do need to let them fail a bit.

Yes it would have impacted his career but the sexism will continue until men start to make these requests

^THIS

I have a male colleague who is taking 6 weeks paternity leave and its all falling on me. I have no complaints. I am paying it forward for all the male colleagues who covered for me when it was my turn. If we want a TRULY equal society then that's how it has to be.

@timeisnotaline Thank you for these thoughts, what I mean is, I want him to be part time so a parent is at home and available for them emotionally. He would happily arrange a nanny. He is very very supportive around the hours of his FT job- cooks and does washing! But with both parents in these demanding jobs I worry the kids will still feel neglected (always in the late clubs, only seeing us for bedtime in the week) and we will both be too strung out to have a nice family time. I think both of us at 80% is the dream in the end, but I need to be 100% just to push through my last few years and both I (and the kids) need his emotional support during that.

Very pleased to hear your update. I know four female doctors with young children (between one and three) and all have had really hard times but on the whole their families are great and their children certainly haven't suffered.

For a woman who loves her career to give it all up for the children and to be supporting her male partner to succeed in exactly that same career to me just sounds like a recipe for resentment.

Totally agree, he needs to pick up the mental load too. He needs to think about childcare, he needs to speak to the agencies to communicate needs, to interview candidates, to offer, to think about payment, to organise a cleaner, to do the online shopping etc etc. I bet he's not on a forum asking how on earth he can juggle it all. He'll just assume someone/you will sort it all out.

Oh ok, sounds like you’re not doing too badly! Ask him about his memories of growing up. Were none of them at home just doing stuff? Ask the dc what they loved best about a day. Mine are at home with a nanny temporarily due to covid and I must say they are loving being home more and just playing.

Very pleased with your update. Going forward please keep in mind that your husband is an equal parent and an equal partner in the marriage. He has equal responsibilities towards his children and should support you in your career as you have supported him. Please don't take all the mental load and delegate as much work as possible. You may be out of pocket but it's only for a short while.
I am rooting for you! You will be a spectacular surgeon! All the best!

And whereabouts in London? We were n10 and lived in a couple of flats with big shared gardens which were fabulous. Plus there were several woods and lots of big parks.

Just posting to say good for you for realising your partner needs to step up. He chose to have kids with an aspiring surgeon (not a SAHM) and he needs to do his share. And as PP has said - I bet he's not up at 4am asking for online advice about how he's gonna cope looking after his kids!

In terms of work, in the short term- I will find a good nanny and carry on part time for 12 months, I can take this penultimate exam and go 100% after that for ST4-7. I will try to insist that he takes a part time consultant post (in 18 months) and holds the fort for those 4 years

Excellent update OP. Just remember, every time he says 'I can't do X because career' just remind him that you have a career too. Why shouldn't you both be brilliant PT consultants, instead of him being a consultant, while you waste your potential and run round picking up everything else?

Because that's the real road to equality. Making men equally responsible for domestic stuff whether it be childcare, housework, elderly care or whatever.

Then we're less likely to be in the situation where the people in charge (usually men) have the whole 'stuff that needs doing at home' completely off their radar, because it all happens by magic without any involvement from them at all.

I remember speaking to my adult children about their childhoods. They mainly talk about the good times, the times when we had fun together or something silly happened and not the times I was studying or tired.I think the main point is to be a present parent when you are spending quality time with them. Listening, playing or reading to them whatever you are doing with them. When mine became teens I almost had to beg them to spend time with me!!

It isn't easy when they are young but take it from me you never stop worrying about them. I am now retired and my adult children are in their 40s but I still worry about them. The only difference is that now I don't get involved unless they ask me. Which is a different story altogether.

Really pleased to read your update, OP. I think you will make it work!
Best of luck with your family and your career.

I am genuinely astounded at the number of posters who seem to be ignoring the fact that OP does not want to walk away from her job because she loves doing it.

Maybe read the title and assess what the OP is asking, then you might not be so astounded, lol.
The intelligence on here, sometimes.

Sorry to add to the chorus of 'what is your dh doing about this'... but did you both agree to have children? Did he want kids? Does he want kids that are well cared for? If so...he needs to up his game and help you come up with solutions that work for all of you... Solutions could range from him going part time, to both of you spending more on nannies/cleaners 'help' to considering moving areas/trusts. Why is it only you that feels guilty/worries about reading/needs to 'be there for the kids'?
Both dh and I have had to accommodate each other in the need for balancing two full on careers and being the parents we wanted to be. Kids are older now (last one will leave primary this year) and it does get easier. But...dh has taken on board school picks ups, school admin, endless Biff and Chip and maths guidance... drops to clubs etc etc... We both have ... Meaning both of us have been equally present and available for the kids....but not both equally at the same time- I was more absent when studying for my professional qualifications, he was more absent when jetting off to dodgy areas of the globe working with infectious diseases. The kids can equally talk/turn to either of us. Do you want some a house where old style gender roles are replicated where 'daddy' is the work all hours consultant who doesn't know who their friends are and 'mummy' is the one doing the domestic drudge. Also... do you not worry that this would lead to some resentment down the line? What if he becomes some super star surgeon, presenting at international conferences and you take a job as a GP's receptionist because it fits around the kids and then you get talked over at dinner parties by his oh so smart medic friends because you are just a house wife. I am not saying it is correct or ok, but sahm parents are not treated all that well in certain social circles. Can your relationship survive the massive disparity when you a have clearly been bright enough and driven enough to strive for your own personal success (as you say a life's work) then had to give it up for what should be both your lifes work? I have seen lots and lots of women step back 'just when the kids are little' then find it very hard to get back some semblance of self and the long term repercussions of that are enormous and don't often end well (affairs/divorce/depression). Think through what it will look like in ttwo eyars, five years and ten years (both options)....

My DCs will always give me more joy than anything else in this world.

But I didn’t want to take the risk of other things not working out in life (relationship breakdown, illness, death) and not being able to provide for the DCs.

I had to keep reminding my DP that our DCs were our joint responsibility.

Paying for extra help to get through the tough years helped us so much. We actually lived in a wreck of a house and lived frugally so we could pay for the help we had. But we never had to the guilt re our DCs. Having our free time as family time (with all chores/housework done etc each weekend) was also such a luxury and very good for or family dynamic and relationship.

Our nanny was phenomenal - never stressed and so emotionally available. She stayed for four years and was like a big sister to them. Better cook and housekeeper than me. I’ll never forget the joy of opening their drawers and seeing their little clothes folded and ironed beautifully and a box of nappies I thought had run out, topped up. She was the single reason we got through those years intact.

I don’t feel we/DCs missed out at all. If anything, I had permission to really live in the moment when I was with my young DCs (without worrying what was for supper or how we were going to timetable haircuts, swimming lessons, new shoe shopping etc).

I have very close relationship with DCs still, I am home a lot earlier now and they are well adjusted and happy....but as early teens /tweens they love their independence and prefer the company of their friends. They also don’t remember those days when it was so hard for their parents :)

I feel for you, it's really tough. You're at a really difficult place in your family/career but it's not the best time to make the decision to duck out. Lots of lovely advice here but I'm not sure everyone here realises that you can't just 'park' medical training and pick it up again when you feel ready again. If you leave, you'll be unlikely to get so far up the greasy pole again.
Part time in a medical career just means less than the full timers are doing which is still an awful lot. I'd urge you to get the nanny, sort the school, put a bit more on the DH (in my own experience being part time meant that I had to do everything at home because he was 'working' - as if I wasn't!) maybe even go full-time again because it's overall quicker to train and you get the recognition of working and - whispers quietly - the kids still love you and don't really mind what you do.
Your future is as important as anyone's and your future as a surgeon (or any other doctor) is going to be a doddle after this!

@newmumwithquestions

He is nearly finished so he can't go part time- although he's allowed, it would have a negative impact on his career prospects (there is still quite a lot of sexism about this in medicine).

So your husband CAN go part time. He’s just choosing not to as it will have a negative impact on his career prospects. Yet he’s presumably happy for you to give up your career completely? You’ve done the part time already to enable him to progress his career when the children were small. It’s his turn to make sacrifices for the next few years.

^^ this. Totally this

Totally agree.

It would be a shame to give up medicine now, and I think you'd regret it later. For the immediate future, find new nanny quick and give yourself time to think.

Perhaps you should consider side-stepping to a less demanding specialty, where potentially the hours and demands are easier to fit around family life. Endocrinology or Dermatology. Genetics, Pathology, Geriatrics.

I'm SO glad you've decided to keep your job, and that you're realising your husband needs to do more. Treating women as the default childcarers and treating their jobs as less important hurts us all.

Don't be afraid to push for the support you need, both at work and from your partner (that's what he should be - an equal partner).

So to all those PPs saying give up your job, it doesn’t matter, get a little local job, you will feel guilty, you will be a proper full time mum etc etc I hope you are advising your daughters not to bother aiming for those A grades or applying to medical school and studying for 7 years. Hypocrites and sexist.

I'm so relieved you're not going to give up your career OP! I was horrified reading your initial posts and the replies. You worked just as hard as your husband to get where you are and you have just as much potential as him - why on earth should you be the one to take all the sacrifice? With such a level playing field career-wise he definitely has equal responsibilty for your DC and their well-being. As mentioned upthread sexism is never going to go away until men step up and request the flexibility at work instead of sitting back happy for their partners to sacrifice themselves.

Imagine telling a man on his way to becoming a surgeon that he should quit and get himself a nice little shop job - it simply would NEVER be suggested in a million years! I've been a SAHM and if you have been any way ambitious/academic it can be mental torture - in fact it can be mental torture for anyone, I think there's very, very few women who are suited to it.

Wishing you all the best in your future. You're a great role model for girls aspiring to be surgeons and especially for your children

Good luck OP! Sounds like you really love your job and would like to do it in the long term. Is it a run-through programme starting at ST1? At ST3, if you stopped for a couple of years, would you have to repeat SHO core surgical or do you have to start from ST1 again? Could you switch to staff grade and do part-time or locum SHO jobs for a couple of years? It might take the pressure off to just keep skills up rather than the continual need to get new things signed off and ‘progress’.

It sounds like your DH would be fairly hands-off in terms of reading, homework etc. Will you be happy with that? The kids might get different things which are equally or more valuable when your DH looks after them, but it is worth thinking about, trying and discussing so you are on the same page.