AIBU to give up a life's work to see my kids grow up

[doctormumoftwo]

I am thinking of leaving my job and I desperately need advice from other people who may have been in my position. I have two children who are 2 and 6. I work as a junior doctor/surgeon and am halfway through my training/exams. My DH is a full time a doctor. I love my job but it is very stressful. We could get by on DH salary alone but it would mean a big change in lifestyle (no holidays etc). I acknowledge I am very lucky to be in this position. I have been part time since I started but I am falling behind on my surgery and I have realised I can't continue part time as I need more surgical experience to gain competency. I also have final exams to take which means many hours of revision. I will be working flat out for the next 5 years minimum (nights, weekends, exams etc). Due to COVID our parents can not longer help regularly. It will be less stressful (but still demanding) as a consultant. DH cannot go part time to help. Despite the long hours we work, we can't afford private school, we live in a small flat with no garden. We will have to put the kids in school/nursery from 0745 - 6pm 5 days a week, or have a nanny for >50hrs for us to both work. My child's school is not great, there is not much community outside the school. My heart breaks for them, especially the 2 year old. I feel like I am sacrificing their childhood for my career. I have worked so hard to get where I am, invested money, time and incredible effort, but it feels like the demands of my job are just not compatible with being a decent mother. I don't know what to do. Our part time nanny recently quit handed in her notice. My child's reading is falling behind and they always ask me to play but I don't have the time to give them. I am thinking of giving up work and being a mum. I feel so guilty to continue leaving them for so many hours. I don't think a part time solution is going to work any longer because of the surgery, as I am falling behind and I spend many of my unpaid days off at work 'catching up'. I enjoy my job but I am incredibly stressed and sad about the toll it is taking on us all- that I know will not end for many more years. What should I do?

You must do what feels right for you as a family.

That appears to be highly-gendered Mn code for 'sacrifice your own career for your husband's'.

Hi OP,

Everyone situation is different and I'm going to give you pros of cons of quitting your job to care for your children full time.

Personally, I do not think you should quit. I would highly consider doing part time (which your already doing now) and moving onto another speciality which is much less demanding. I would strongly consider this. I think you are very fortunate to be in a field where you can specialise in other areas. Please use this to your advantage.

I totally understand your point about not being there for your children, stressed out at home life. We have all been there. But I would not quit-no. I love my DC so much (I work part time) but I have my own needs, and my career is part of my identity- I'm not just a "mum". Also, children will need you throughout their years, it doesn't stop when they are teens. Do you not hear that a higher rate of teenagers are suffering form mental illness? Also considering exams, relationships, new found independence. I believe that teens, may not need you physically, but they require a LOT of emotional support.

My mum worked when I was younger and honest to God, I cannot even remember. However, I did find it a bit lonely at times where she would come back from work late (8pm). When I went to primary school, my mum didn't work. I liked having her here. But looking back...I wish she did something for herself. We had no money to do extra curricular activities, I know many people say this is not important yadada... but a young girl who was bullied, shy and didn't have much friends (just her annoying siblings for entertainment) I do believe this would have boost my confidence.

Also, our mother still donates our lives. We are all adults but she has this yearning need to want to control aspects of all our lives. I do believe that this has resulted from being a SAHM.

Please OP do not give up. Consider hiring a tutor for your son if he has reading needs. My son has delays in his reading, when I come back home in the evening, I we do some reading stuff together. You can even instruct your nanny to help you with this for your son.

I would quit the hamster wheel for being a more resent mum for a while. There are lots of careers you could go into down the line yes there will be some retraining - pharma research, counselling, paramedic. Or do OU degree in something completely different while not working.

For better finances seriously your DH can move to another NHS region when fully qualified. Same salary grade, housing so much cheaper.

Sounds like you are going through a rough patch. Stick with it. And it doesn't matter how great DH's career, he needs to start taking a hit too. You cannot carry the whole load . I would resent the hell out of a man whose career skyrockets at my expense. It may look like a good idea now but I can imagine HATING him 5-10 years down the line when I'm a bored housewife and he's a succesful surgeon purely because his needs were prioritised over both our needs.

Look, if it helps, this is my background - I was raised by 2 parents with very intense jobs, out of the house 6 days a week. They sorted childcare between nurseries, school and relatives. Honestly, they were great parents, I have a great relationship with them. Yes, they missed things here and there which I was frustrated by at the time but 1) they set a great example for me and I really admire my mum, esp now I'm grown up and 2) they are really reaping the benefits now, financially and everything. So overall I would say stick with it.

Not resent !! Present mum.

Is there some reason I am not seeing why your job is expendable but his is not? That you can consider completely giving up your career but he can't stall his temporarily? Please, enlighten me.

I think in this moment, it is really hard to take a decision. But you should bear in mind, that it will pass. It seems the world is going to end no matter what decision you take, be a mom or be a doctor, but if I can tell you one thing is that you don't need to choose only one; be a mom now and in 5 years from now, you comeback as doctor. Of course it will have a heavy price; returning from a 5 years break is never an easy thing to do. But definitely it is possible. I was having difficult with my groceries run and I think it is not the best analogy, but in the end I found this app for my iPhone, Your Best Option, it helped me to have better prices and choices, etc. What I am saying is everything always settles itself. Don't you worry so much. Be aware of the consequences, accept it, and work with it.

Hi - could you come out of your training post and take locum work or a Trust Grade post and work part-time? Eventually you could consider going down the CESR route?

Or maybe go OOP(C) for up to two years? Talk to your ES and TPD - I think I'd probably take an Out of Programme for a year and see how I felt. You can locum while you're OOP - take shifts you want and then make a longer term decision after a year?

Good luck xxx

I would like to give a view from the other side: In the 80s DM had three months of maternity leave when she had me but took only 6 weeks because she wasn't cut out to stay at home with the baby. Took the 3 months when my brother was born two years later. She has always been at work from 9 to 6 (and once we were a bit older 8 to 8) and we were looked after by a full time nanny, but I can honestly say this has done us no harm. She is very successful in her field, and we teasingly call her work her first baby.

My DB and I are both well adjusted people, doing well in our chosen fields and are still very very close to our DM. I am so proud of everything she has achieved, and today when I am making decisions about my own DC or suffering from pangs of mom guilt I still seek her advice.

You know what's best for your family, but don't put yourself in a position where you would later resent your DC for what could have been.

A friend's sister gave up Medicine because of her husband/children.
She was divorced a few years later, and bitterly regretted it.
She has another skill with which she earns her living now, but quite different to Medicine.

I'm in a doctor family (but not one myself). I advise you absolutely do NOT give up. It's entirely possible to get through it and it takes years to get to consultant, I'd get to that and then reduce hours and have a lifestyle change. You could also look into more private work too. Is it possible to get more locum shifts for money?

Also, being a woman who gets to consultant will be aspirational for your kids.

You should also move house. Junior docs aren't paid pennies, especially surgical trainees, are you ST3/ST4? Move somewhere with better space. I think you're playing victim right now.

I wouldn't quit
I don't have DC, but my parents both worked long hours full time and I had a nanny. Honestly I don't remember anything until about age 10. I have memories of holidays, stuff like swimming in a river, being in a motor home eating chips, fun stuff
I don't remember who made my tea or picked me up from school or anything like that. So you could be giving it up for what benefit? Ok you might feel guilty but will your children actually remember? I don't

I'm sure life is a lot easier if one parent does everything at home and the other parent can concentrate on their career. It's certainly easier for the working parent. It is a massive risk to take though for the parent throwing their career away. Not just in case the working parent is no longer present, but will you also be fully happy and with no regrets once children don't need you that much, or when they have left home? When your former colleagues are busy with their exciting and fulfilling careers?

Consider what you'd do if you split with your DH in a few years time and have to support yourself and your DC on your own, in a divorce you'd most likely get a larger share of assets and you'd get maintenance BUT you lose access to your DHs salary and his ability to get a mortgage.

None of us get married expecting to get divorced but it happens. My dd will always be advised to ensure she can support herself and her dc herself.

Have I missed something? Its not your dilemma, it is you AND your DH dilemma. He needs to realise that they are his kids too (are they his kids?)

Have I missed something? Its not your dilemma, it is you AND your DH dilemma. He needs to realise that they are his kids too (are they his kids?)

Yes this is the big point. OP isn't giving up her career to look after her DC but to protect his career trajectory. That is a huge risk for anyone to take.

You might wish to post this on a doctors forum such as doctors.net (you need to register with your GMC number). You will get advice from people who are doctors and have been through similar in their training. There are lots of options, out of program experience, pausing your training and being a specialty doctor for a while, less than full time training, switching specialties (I’m a psychiatrist and our training is much more flexible and family orientated, I have friends who switched from anaesthetics to GP and are much happier). I’d start by speaking to your educational supervisor and the postgraduate dean for your specialty.

Do you not hear that a higher rate of teenagers are suffering form mental illness? Also considering exams, relationships, new found independence. I believe that teens, may not need you physically, but they require a LOT of emotional support.

Oh, dear god.

OP, your children are still far from the teenage years and most teenagers I know don't require sahp or have mental health issues.

See how your children develop.

They will grow up and leave home and you may well end up regretting not living up to your potencial.

Also, another pp saying you can go back after 5 years is largely talking bollocks (as well as possibly spaming).

If you love your job and you want a career, stick with it.

I went very part time when my dds were little. My career has now hit a real barrier. I really regret not putting my career higher up as an important factor. I didn’t love those years basically at home with the little ones- it was tough and boring and I wasn’t very good at it. I should have worked more to be more fulfilled and happier now- that impacts them as teens as I am not as fun to be arojnd now as I would be if I had been more content in my work. My advice is to somehow make it work- even if your dh has to sacrifice something aboht his career. Why should it be yours that is abandoned totally just in case he might not be quite as successful?

Give up for you. If this is not what you want to do. Then you will be happy in the future and is the right decision.

Giving up for the children does not seem such a good idea. It is very unlikely the children will ever appreciate this sacrifice, and you may actually resent them as they become ungrateful pree-teenagers.

This is probably very controversial, but there are plenty of nurseries, child minders, etc that can be wonderful support. I grew up with full time working parents, and complained bitterly when I was younger that I was neglected. Nowadays I completely understand and valued the chnace to grow independently and being taught that a woman's place was not necessarily at home.You are the rough model, so what are you telling your dc about carreers, gender roles, etc?

Only you can answer your questions. But i do understand where you are coming from. I'm a barrister and left the independent Bar after 7 years to start a family; there was no way i could continue how I was prior; 70 hour weeks, working weekends and late nights. It just wasn't compatible. I've taken a step down and work part time, still as a barrister, but in a desk-based role rather than being in court all over the country on a daily basis. Im glad I did, I couldn't have a family and continue to perform the role I was.

I am a mom of 3 who has always worked in a job i have loved,i have had to work , but after everything its just a job which you are doing to earn money to live .
I know its a cliche buts it is true, they are grown before you know it , we choose to be a mom so surely we should do the best we can for our kids.
You are very lucky to be able to live on one wage so why not take a break and be at home , everyones life will become simpler , you will have options again in the future, there must be so many options in the medical field which your skills / qualifications can do .
I hope things work out for you .

Hi OP
You are in a hole at the moment and I think the trigger is your nanny quitting. Don't quit your job without doing some serious scenario planning.
Get advice from your deanery/the sources suggested upthread on your career options.
Seriously work out how long the crazy working hours will last for and what help you need to buy in to get through that.
Seriously challenge your DP could he really not drop down to 0.8FTE?
Your kids will be absolutely fine if you have good quality childcare. a full time nanny if needed until the youngest is school age at least, longer if you can afford it. A full time nanny role may be more attractive to applicants and easier to fill than part time. You will always be their mum even if you do have a few years of full time work. (Believe me they will really need you when they are teens!)
Really, really look at the finances and what you can afford in terms of childcare, housing etc have you actually run the numbers in detail looking at house prices, mortgage costs etc? The preschool years are very expensive for childcare but it can get a lot cheaper after that. If you can see the light at the end of the tunnel things will seem much better.

Not sure I can add much. Clearly you do, as a family, need to make changes to improve your quality of life. I dont see why you binning everything is the only option though. That's a hell of a risky strategy for you, quite frankly.

Have pm'd you.