AIBU to give up a life's work to see my kids grow up

[doctormumoftwo]

I am thinking of leaving my job and I desperately need advice from other people who may have been in my position. I have two children who are 2 and 6. I work as a junior doctor/surgeon and am halfway through my training/exams. My DH is a full time a doctor. I love my job but it is very stressful. We could get by on DH salary alone but it would mean a big change in lifestyle (no holidays etc). I acknowledge I am very lucky to be in this position. I have been part time since I started but I am falling behind on my surgery and I have realised I can't continue part time as I need more surgical experience to gain competency. I also have final exams to take which means many hours of revision. I will be working flat out for the next 5 years minimum (nights, weekends, exams etc). Due to COVID our parents can not longer help regularly. It will be less stressful (but still demanding) as a consultant. DH cannot go part time to help. Despite the long hours we work, we can't afford private school, we live in a small flat with no garden. We will have to put the kids in school/nursery from 0745 - 6pm 5 days a week, or have a nanny for >50hrs for us to both work. My child's school is not great, there is not much community outside the school. My heart breaks for them, especially the 2 year old. I feel like I am sacrificing their childhood for my career. I have worked so hard to get where I am, invested money, time and incredible effort, but it feels like the demands of my job are just not compatible with being a decent mother. I don't know what to do. Our part time nanny recently quit handed in her notice. My child's reading is falling behind and they always ask me to play but I don't have the time to give them. I am thinking of giving up work and being a mum. I feel so guilty to continue leaving them for so many hours. I don't think a part time solution is going to work any longer because of the surgery, as I am falling behind and I spend many of my unpaid days off at work 'catching up'. I enjoy my job but I am incredibly stressed and sad about the toll it is taking on us all- that I know will not end for many more years. What should I do?

@MitziK

Am I the only person here who thinks it's crazy to chuck away a career with lifelong financial independence for a man that might not be around in ten years' time?

It's not doing it for the children, it's doing it so he doesn't have to trouble himself with them.

Stick it out. That way, you wont be dependent upon a good lawyer getting a fair maintenance arrangement if it goes tits up.

This! Do not give up your career. Your DH needs a kick up the backside, hes being very unfair here

I've been in a similar situation and then I got a really reliable nanny who became part of the family. However the fact that you live in a small flat, no garden, makes me think you should move. I think your husband is preventing you from having any real option except give up your career. If I were you I'd push back on that point. It's easy for him to take that view

It did really stick out to me, OP, that your dh can't go part-time because if he did it would have a negative effect on his career, but it's seemingly entirely OK for you to give yours up entirely (the ultimate 'negative effect', perhaps).

I'm afraid I can't advise as such - as you are certainly caught on the horns of a very difficult dilemma indeed - but I did want, as did some PPs, just to note that and suggest you think about it.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

Tappering good points. Several people have said they don’t regret giving up their work, but also admit they didn’t like their job much/ preferred being at home anyway. So you can’t really make a direct comparison there.

I also agree with this. I remember feeling guilty about whether DS would be better with a SAHM. Then I realised that maybe he would be better off with someone who would be really happy and fulfilled as a SAHM but, for good or for bad, he didn't get that mother, he got me and my choices were happy working mother or very unhappy SAHM.

“No-one ever said on their death bed they wished they’d spent more time in the office”.

This is trite and untrue. Some older people I know express deep regret that they didn’t have a career or the chance to fulfill their potential.

Good luck op.

I gave up teaching to be a mum. I was only working part time but the pressure it out in is all for those days was horrible, we were all snappy and grumpy and kids got no support with their hw etc. I may have been a part time teacher but if worked for 16 years to the top of the payscale and I have it all up to be a mum. But it is different if you've already had your career.

As pp said you could take a break but my kids are 13,11and 6 and I still felt like they needed me more than I could give.

Sadly due to Covid I am temporarily back at work. One day in and I'm already worried about lack of time with them 🙄

nevergoingoutagain, with all due respect, you didn't give up teaching to be a mum, you gave it up to be a SAHM. Us WOHM (or WFHM, often, in the current climate) are still mums.

It is a head and heart decision isn't it.
Personally you have worked so hard to get where you are, then to give it all up?
Also I agree you never know what may happen in the future and from personal experience I understand you should never allow yourself to become financially dependent on your partner.
I am assuming you planned your children, what were you thoughts then on how you would manage your career going forward? Did you have more clarity then and a plan, it might be worth thinking back to what you envisaged would happen? Or is the reality wildly different.

Could you not go part time, means training is extended but once the kids are older life is easier. Also why not consider relocating - drs get paid the same everywhere, money goes a long way up here, all the drs kids I know are privately educated and have au pairs

My mum was a SAHM and as we got older she got depressed as she had no life beyond us.

Their must be a compromise where you can carry on being a doctor and be at home more.

You sound very stressed and like you're struggling to think clearly. Do you have access to any counselling or occupational health help at work who could help you talk through your options?

Honestly, it's crazy that you're thinking about giving your career up entirely, when what your DH needs to do is to go part-time. Yes, that WILL negatively affect his career, but it will allow you to keep yours!

Don't give up all that brilliant effort and all those wonderful, specialist skills. Ask your H to go part-time and enlist any help you can in getting a wonderful nanny. Personally, I wish I had put more effort into my career, not less.

@IntermittentParps

He is nearly finished so he can't go part time- although he's allowed, it would have a negative impact on his career prospects (there is still quite a lot of sexism about this in medicine).

So your husband CAN go part time. He’s just choosing not to as it will have a negative impact on his career prospects. Yet he’s presumably happy for you to give up your career completely? You’ve done the part time already to enable him to progress his career when the children were small. It’s his turn to make sacrifices for the next few years.

I agree with this 100%. Your DH is also responsible for your and his DCs. Why should you be the one having to make all the difficult decisions and potentially take the career hit?

This.

Don’t quit, change everything else. You and your husband need to look at all options. It’s his time to work less hours, spend money on help at home - whatever you need. Housekeeper, nanny, au pair plus.

Think of moving to somewhere with a shorter commute.

You WOULDNT be giving up your career for your kids. You would be giving it up so your husband isn’t inconvenienced by having to parent his children.

Please don’t do this thinking he will be grateful. He won’t. There’s a 35- 50% chance you will split up later and he will say that he DIDNT want you to do that and he was stressed having to earn all the money while you sat at home doing nothing.

Please think of these odds. Don’t risk it.

What kind of lesson are you teaching your kids - men’s jobs are more important than women’s ? There’s no point in women getting and education or a career ?

Do what suits your family but please investigate all of your husbands options first. So many women at your stage make the decision to step back and it makes a lot of sense with small kids but they grow, and you are then out of the workforce while his career flourishes because he doesn’t have to worry about any child care. It’s tough on individual women and I’m not expecting you to solve the patriarchy ! but that’s how men continue to thrive unfortunately. Is there any way you can keep your foot in the door? Or get him to take a chunk of time off? I feel for you I really do but stepping back for a minute, it’s not fair that you have to stop altogether

Fwiw, OP, my SIL not only powered through her training with 2 children, but now she's on a better salary and better hours than my surgeon brother.

Keep in mind that when you balance your career with your OH.

Do not quit. Get the qualifications.
My friend did the same then her DH left her and the kids and now he has a fabulous life with his new wife ( also a hospital consultant) amd my friend is struggling in a 2 bed flat. She does tutoring now and is is full of resentment.

You need to work with your DH as a team.

My only other thought is c

You may regret it bitterly when they need you less and they don't even remember their toddlerhood for which you sacrificed years of hard work and a career. Don't do it.

Umm OP I feel for you I do but I think you and your DH need to work out what is most important for you all as a family.

I know a lot of Drs. Some make it work by having a nanny / then private school with lots of wrap-around care. Others have both been able to go part-time. Partly I believe it is the field they work in that gives them flexibility.

What strikes me most is that you are considering giving up your career for your children's wellbeing. Your DH isn't offering anything because it might hurt his career. I'm sorry I think there is a compromise position where you both sacrifice something for the good of your family. His career does not trump yours.

My DH went part time during lockdown so that he could help with young DC and allow me to keep my job. I think it is time your DH supported you

Sorry spreader send too soon

Is what is the career path to becoming an associate specialist or staff grade in surgery? Might be quicker and easier but final salary much lower.

Please don't stop working... For all the reasons already given.
But have you thought about an OOPE?
A year in research or academia..?
Or an OOPC
You are not limited to three months as you said... Have you spoken to your post grad Dean, education supervisor or the Royal college?
They will have heard this before and should help you.

I gave up my job (I wasn't a doctor but it was a job I had trained for years for) and I've never looked back. I've worked from home since because my husbands wage would never have been enough, but I now earn significantly more than him. I did it because I couldn't bear the thought of not being there for my kids at that age, not being able to meet their needs, and have them being brought up by a nanny. I was brought up by a SAHM and a self employed work at home dad so I really felt it was important to be around for my kids as much as possible at that age. Parenting and working from home is tough in its own way, but nowhere near as stressful as what you're doing. I have no regrets and I KNOW I would have if I hadn't been there for my kids. Having said that though, I get a lot of fulfilment from my work - maybe you could find something that could be done part time from home? While I'd always put my kids first, you absolutely need to have something for yourself too.

There is also the RCS support and advice line and the Wins (women in surgery) network who would be great resource for help

your dh can't go part-time because if he did it would have a negative effect on his career, but it's seemingly entirely OK for you to give yours up entirely

This. You're not thinking about giving it all for your DC, but so your DH is not invonvenienced and his career is not impacted.

Don't throw it away, you're so far and life will be a lot easier soon. People saying children are only small for a short time do not understand that you can't just pick up all careers after a long break. And yes many people regret they didn't fulfil their potential. Not to mention the financial side - children are expensive, a consultant can clearly offer a much more comfortable life to her children than a SAHM picking up a part time little job after 10 year break.

I'd ditch the surgery if I were you and pick another specialty. Or get your DH to step up.

Realistically you're looking at another decade of awful hours as a surgeon - if you switched, you'd still do plenty of hours but going part time wouldn't be so detrimental.

I haven't rtft, but I can't see why you won't both go LTFT. You have options, plenty of doctor parents manage just fine. Even doctor single parents.

Could you move? My doctor sibling lives in Yorkshire although often comes to London for work so surely even if the husband cannot get moved from say London to Leeds within the NHS the family could move to somewhere with huge cheap houses, mother finds much cheaper childcare there and continues a career full time and husband does a lot of commuting but uses airbnb etc when down in London or during the week?