Or does DH just not care about risks....

[moonbebe]

Our daughter is 5 months old and born during lockdown.

Neither of our parents have held her.

My husband and I decided from the start we didn't want to take the risk, so people saw her from a distance.

Last month my husband returned to working from the office and has since developed a completely different attitude to the pandemic.

Whilst he's following the guidelines on social distancing, he keeps telling me it's 'not a scary place out there' and that I'm catastrophizing the risks.

He's now decided that it's time for us to allow our parents to hold and spend time "normally" with our daughter.

I however, don't!

I'm fed up of him telling me the risk to children is small!!
I just don't understand him.

I know numbers are low, but Covid is still there and I don't want to put out daughter at unnecessary risk for the sake of our parents wanting a cuddle.

We're in England and the guidance is still to social distance, even for babies, so if the risk was low to children they why not amend this (like Scotland)

My husband is 34 and I'm 33.
I have asthma (controlled) and inflammatory arthritis (not medicated with agreement of rheumatologist) and I'm
also concerned that if our daughter did catch it, that means I could, it worries me that I could be really ill and my biggest fear is been away from my daughter. 😔

I love our daughter so much and I just cannot tolerate the thought of absolutely anything happening to her.

Surely if I've got to make the decision to keep her safe, then allowing her grandparents to hold her (who all go to work every day and work around a lot more people than my husband does)
isn't a safe decision.

I don't know how me and DH are ever going to come to a decision on this because he thinks I'm being unreasonable and I think he is!!!

Yabvvu. It sounds like the months of anxiety and isolation have seriously affected your mental health

This thread gets even more bonkers

In Scotland children under 12 do not need to social distance from each other or adults so in Scotland your parents and PIL could have cuddled baby 2 months ago according to Scottish guidelines not a single child gas died in Scotland despite children not social distancing for 2 months. Children need to be exposed to some germs to build up immunity

Can't believe some of the responses you've had op, I don't think you are unreasonable at all by following government guidelines...
If it helps, when I allowed contact between my parents and baby (single parent family so WITHIN government guidelines) I, at first, insisted on us being outside, wash hands before and after, and for no more than 10 minutes at a time, to lessen the risk. When you're ready to, you might want to try doing it that way.
To all you posters saying, basically, everyone do whatever you like, you are the reason the infection rate is rising... thanks a lot!

I think it’s the guidelines that are bonkers.

OP I can understand your concern at trying to follow the guidance, but it’s the guidance that doesn’t make sense. You could send her to nursery to be held by staff there, but your own parents can’t hold her? Kids are back at school with zero social distancing, but have to stay 2m apart outside of school? I think when the guidelines are inconsistent you have to make your own risk assessment. Personally I still err on the cautious side, so do t know what I would be doing in your situation.

I don’t know if it helps, but you say you are worried for yourself due to asthma and arthritis. Neither are now thought to be risk factors. They were early on, but have now been discounted. I have both conditions myself, so understand your concern. I only found out last week that they had been studied and found not to be a risk, and am still adjusting to not being high risk. It’s a strange journey.

I would let them hold her.

Oh, and think the reason several people thought that you weren't going outside was because you quoted your DH as saying that "it's not a scary place out there" which sort of implied that you hadn't been out in the world at all.

You are following government guidelines.
You sound very reasonable.
Many of the posters replying do not.

Following the social distancing guidelines won’t eliminate all COVID spread but it will reduce the overall number of close contacts each person has. So anyone asymptomatic with the virus is less likely to spread the virus to as many people as they would if we were all relaxed about social distancing. To suggest the poster breaks the governments guidelines and increases the level contact she allows her baby to have based on the fact other kids go to nursery or because her husband goes to work anyway just illustrates a lack of understanding of COVID, how it spreads and the impact a second surge will have.

Well, either a lack of understanding or a lack of responsibility.

If the R went up, but the rules were further relaxed (knowing this Govt, they could easily start encouraging less risky people to get it), would you trust the Govt's new take on the rules or would you take the real science/data/figures into consideration before arriving at your own balanced decision?

Aside from the rules, the big issue is you and DH disagreeing. How will you get through this issue, will you get the final say?

@lazylinguist

This thread is properly bonkers! I don't think I have ever seen a thread with quite so many posters who seem incapable of reading the OP.

You may disagree with the OP, but accusing her of extreme anxiety and paranoia is ridiculous! All she is doing is following the normal rules that everybody else is supposed to be following too fgs! Going out, seeing friends and family, but avoiding close contact between the people in their household and everybody outside it. There's no exemption based on age!

All the people quoting figures about Covid cases in children- are you implying that people should be ignoring the social distancing rules and just making their own judgments about whether to hug people based on how high a risk category they are in?

@lazylinguist

The thread is just crazy!

It seems that if you follow the guidelines set by the government and not the ones set by mumsnet, then must be an irrational, anxious, paranoid unstable person.

Ima bit worried about cases of leukaemia specifically ALL rising in young children if they have no contact with germs in their first months. My household have been out and about pretty normally (we work out of the home and are pretty relaxed) and by now we’d all have had summer colds. But...nothing since the covid infections we had before lockdown. It shows how isolated everyone is and It’s a concern.

I think that your husband has got the right balance in all of this.

Reading the posts above talking about the risks of being exposed to covid and the fact your husband is working outside of the home.

Your baby would benefit from close contact and cuddles from the grandparents, personally I think the risk of isolating children and creating paranoia with respect to Covid is potentially more damaging than the virus itself.

Unless your child has a significant medical condition or a weakened immune system, I really don't think there is any justification for keeping them away from grandparents/close family members.

@moonbebe but they are just guidelines and sometimes pretty illogical ones - I can eat a meal with my parents in a restaurant on the same table but they must SD and not hug them but if it was just my mum I could.

And I do get why they are there as guidelines because it is easier to control in a restaurant and track and trace and family homes are much harder and a big part of transmission.

But I am about to send both back to school as well with all of that.

So with me it became what I could live with in the longer term - I follow the guidelines and the rules but we hug my parents and dont SD with them because I know where they have been and the mental health of my children being able to do that is important to me

Everyone needs to find their own balance - and you need to find yours. And I understand your concerns but cant you see its not that your DH doesnt care about the risks just that now he is back in the world he too would like to find a medium that he can live with for the next 6 months or so and for him what is missing is grandparents cuddling his child

As another poster said soon she will be moving - will you stop visits at that point?

Your household isn't isolating so I don't see why grandparents can't have a cuddle as long as they are symptom free, washing hands and being sensible with distancing themselves.

To me - there's so much more to life. Mental health matters. Relationships matter. Socialising matters. For you and your child. She needs to see people at some point.

Yes Covid is a risk, but it's extremely small to your baby and still quite small to you. But it's something you'll need to discuss together and agree upon.

It seems that if you follow the guidelines set by the government and not the ones set by mumsnet, then must be an irrational, anxious, paranoid unstable person.

Do you honestly think it's healthy to ban your parents from cuddling their grandchild? How long do you plan on keeping it up? What if there isn't a vaccine until she's two? Or five? Or ever?

What if she crawls up to grandma in a few months for a cuddle? Will grandma have to push her away? What if she falls over while
you've popped to the toilet? Will your dad be allowed to pick her up and comfort her?

That's been asked several times and you've yet to give an answer.

When I was a new mum I was so anxious about everything, I think covid would have probably tipped me over the edge.
It's no good all of us strangers telling the op shes being over cautious.
OP , you need to discuss your fears with health professionals and see how you feel after that .

Why do posters like @moonbebe ask if they're ABU but then when a majority say they are, they refuse to believe it.

Why waste your time creating a thread?

I am letting close family cuddle each other. Youngest is 4 and if I had a 5 mth old it would be the same. My Mum is not mixing with loads of people just going going to local shop, visits her elderly friends all staying apart not out partying with randomers etc I have no concerns her being here, hugging us & kids staying over.
Some of the guidelines are there to cover worst case, you need to start making some self accessments. Ultimately it's up to you as parents but your husband should have a say as well and I am on his side when it comes to grandparents. It's v sad my kids other GPs are in the UK & we miss them & they us esp the kids so so much! The relationship is a very special one. Can you imagine your DD having a baby - your own flesh & blood & not being allowed to hold or cuddle them after all this time?

@moonbebe if government guidelines were to change today, would that impact your decision to let the GPs hold your daughter?

I think that Covid has given controlling people a really good excuse to carry on being controlling ..

@TheHappyHerbivore

It may comfort you that not one single child has died from Covid unless they had serious, pre-existing conditions. I can see why your husband is concerned that you’re setting too much store by this particular risk, at the expense of other important things like family bonding.

It’s maybe also worth remembering that if your husband is going out to work and then holding her, she’s at the same risk as if your parents do the same.

Risk assessment classes should be mandatory.

Unless they all work together, shop together, travel together etc that's just not true

@vanillandhoney

It seems that if you follow the guidelines set by the government and not the ones set by mumsnet, then must be an irrational, anxious, paranoid unstable person.

Do you honestly think it's healthy to ban your parents from cuddling their grandchild? How long do you plan on keeping it up? What if there isn't a vaccine until she's two? Or five? Or ever?

What if she crawls up to grandma in a few months for a cuddle? Will grandma have to push her away? What if she falls over while
you've popped to the toilet? Will your dad be allowed to pick her up and comfort her?

That's been asked several times and you've yet to give an answer.

Yes, that's quite telling.

More likely to succumb to cot death than Covid.

I think the risk is being misrepresented. The OPs decision is based on her objective to keep the baby safe.

There was a health risk to a baby from being held or cuddled before Covid. The level of risk has barely changed. Probably not at all to the baby’s health.

It’s a different story for the GPs.

I would speak to your health visitor OP. You seem quite highly strung and I would be concerned about post natal depression. I bet your poor parents and in laws can’t wait for a cuddle. 5 months is a long time.