Or does DH just not care about risks....

[moonbebe]

Our daughter is 5 months old and born during lockdown.

Neither of our parents have held her.

My husband and I decided from the start we didn't want to take the risk, so people saw her from a distance.

Last month my husband returned to working from the office and has since developed a completely different attitude to the pandemic.

Whilst he's following the guidelines on social distancing, he keeps telling me it's 'not a scary place out there' and that I'm catastrophizing the risks.

He's now decided that it's time for us to allow our parents to hold and spend time "normally" with our daughter.

I however, don't!

I'm fed up of him telling me the risk to children is small!!
I just don't understand him.

I know numbers are low, but Covid is still there and I don't want to put out daughter at unnecessary risk for the sake of our parents wanting a cuddle.

We're in England and the guidance is still to social distance, even for babies, so if the risk was low to children they why not amend this (like Scotland)

My husband is 34 and I'm 33.
I have asthma (controlled) and inflammatory arthritis (not medicated with agreement of rheumatologist) and I'm
also concerned that if our daughter did catch it, that means I could, it worries me that I could be really ill and my biggest fear is been away from my daughter. 😔

I love our daughter so much and I just cannot tolerate the thought of absolutely anything happening to her.

Surely if I've got to make the decision to keep her safe, then allowing her grandparents to hold her (who all go to work every day and work around a lot more people than my husband does)
isn't a safe decision.

I don't know how me and DH are ever going to come to a decision on this because he thinks I'm being unreasonable and I think he is!!!

[quote moonbebe]@Happityhap

Are the family fussing about this, or only your DH?*

No our families have been really respectful of our choices.

They get to see our daughter regularly and haven't questioned when they can hold.

It my husband that has brought this up. [/quote]
I asked upstream what impact is your current decision having on your relationship with your husband and wider family. This is the issue you need to think about. I don’t see why you are on MN arguing the toss over rules and what you didn’t say in your OP.

People have different opinions on this. That must be pretty clear to everyone. Resolving the differences are the problem. I really don’t see any of that happening on this thread or the other 1000’s of threads started on the subject.

All this thread has done is lead to more argument. That should give you some insight into where things will go within your family.

You need to start living your life again, I’ve seen babies everywhere, they need to be out and about. You sound very over anxious.

And your “Or does DH just not care about the risks” is a really awful perspective. Do you really think that your DH doesn’t care about your daughter’s health and well-being OR do you think that he has access to the same information that you do but has made a considered but different decision?

If I were your DH and you were telling me that I “don’t care” I’d be very hurt indeed.

I get it OP, having a child is scary and anxiety inducing at the best of times without a global pandemic. However, if you go into their houses in all liklihood she would get it anyway so not holding her does seem pointless. Having said that, it is whatever feels comfortable for you but how long is too long? It's not going away and I suppose you have to weigh up the risks.

I posted earlier as I also had my first baby in lockdown, he is a bit younger than yours. I don’t know if you read it. I just wanted to share my perspective.

We studied the stats. No children died that didn’t have huge existing complications. They’re a lot more likely to transmit than actually come down with it. We all (my whole extended family) take precautions with social distancing, washing hands, staying away of feeling unwell etc and so can form a type of family bubble. I’m pretty sure that’s within the guidelines if you’re determined to stick to them rigidly. I must admit, with the constant government U-turns, I will honour the guidelines to a point but I will also use my own brain to make a decision.

My local area has low numbers now. My parent who was shielding was advised they could ‘un-shield’. The baby has had his jabs. And so I have decided that we will allow the grandparents to hold him because nothing is going to change in the foreseeable.

But I must admit, I’m not that precious about him. He’s healthy, bouncing and robust and it’s more important to me that he knows his family and isn’t going to become difficult about others holding him. We’re all sensible and clean and the figures about babies means that I am not overly worried.

[quote moonbebe]@YoBeaches

The virus is airborne, more than contact. So if people are in your home and have it, you are likely going to get it. They don't have to touch you to pass it.

Do you have some evidence to back this up that the virus is airborne?! I haven't seen / read anything about this.

The virus spreads when you are in close contact (less than 2m) and even when people come into our home we always maintain distance.
Guests wash their hands and they use hand sanitizers.
[/quote]
It's accepted now, including by the WHO, that it's airborne.

Take a look at the circumstances of many of the recent outbreaks centering on pubs - multiple people infected by going to a pub or restaurant. I'm stringently following the rules so I'm not going to pubs, restaurants, people's houses. I do think it's a bit illogical to go to coffee shops, restaurants, people's houses and have them visit yours - all activities that expose you to potential infection - but only worry about grand parents holding your baby. Surely if you want to avoid catching it then you can't go to restaurants, visit people's homes etc either?

Hello Dominic!

I think you're being a bit ridiculous. I can't believe you haven't let your family hold your child once - that's quite sad.

I won't let the GP hold our baby once she is here. For one, I am the one that is very vulnerable and don't want to be infected via my baby and two, they are not careful at all and think nothing of visiting someone who has cold symptoms.

It's not just about the baby, the parents need protecting too. I really don't believe that it is harmful for a baby to only be held by their parents in the first year. They will get enough opportunities to get immunity when they go to nursery or school since most kids are infected by a zillion things there.

Babies need to develop their immune system @moonbebe

Keeping 2m away from every other human being isn't ideal..... for any of you.

There is actually research to support that reduced exposure to germs is linked to some rather nasty illnesses (I won't link but I just did a quick Google and first article I found was NHS / 2018)

As for your personal risk factors, I am vulnerable due to the medication I take for arthritis, so if you are unmedicated, this shouldn't be relevant to how at risk you are?

• my arthritis is autoimmune

@rorosemary

I won't let the GP hold our baby once she is here. For one, I am the one that is very vulnerable and don't want to be infected via my baby and two, they are not careful at all and think nothing of visiting someone who has cold symptoms.

It's not just about the baby, the parents need protecting too. I really don't believe that it is harmful for a baby to only be held by their parents in the first year. They will get enough opportunities to get immunity when they go to nursery or school since most kids are infected by a zillion things there.

It is important that a babies immune system develops and keeping them shielded from human contact until they are 1+ is not going to do them any favours.

We go to two local coffee shops (Me husband and baby)

We've been to a few local restaurants (me husband and baby)

So you're willing to take a minimal risk to entertain yourselves but unwilling to take a minimal risk so your baby's grandparents can cuddle their grandchild?

I'm completely with your DH here.

I’d be so upset if my parents had missed newborn cuddles already. Let them hug before the wriggling and crawling start. You’ll never get this time back! Get the camera out and let them bond properly.

In wales sd for under 11s has ended. I can’t believe it wasn’t the first thing to go. It’s been so cruel seeing children miss each other

This is just terribly sad.

The harm of not letting grandparents hold their grandchild is so much greater than the risk of covid to a small child and a healthy young adult.

Poor grandparents. Your husband is right.

Relent and allow grandparents to hold her. And manage your resultant anxiety. Bare in mind the impact that parental anxiety can have on children as they develop.

@EmilySpinach

You need to consider your exit strategy from this arrangement, OP. Your baby will be mobile soon and you need to think about what you will do if she crawls over to one of her grandparents and pulls up on their leg, for example.

You'll be waiting a long time either for specific government guidance or a vaccine.

That's a really good point.

Your baby could well be mobile very, very soon OP. One of mine crawled at just shy of 6.5 months. That's earlier than average, but equally it's not off the scale, unrealistic to anticipate it might happen to yours early. What are you going to do when your baby starts actively wanting to go to other people she knows, crawling to them, lunging at them? She will also probably start trying to eat whatever shit she crawls across then too, whether it's a foodstuff or not. The odds are that she will do this well before a widely distributed vaccine becomes available, if it ever does.

You may well feel you'll cross this bridge when you come to it, but might it not be mentally easier if you have been able to wean yourself off the current approach first? Perhaps allowing a grandparent sitting right next to you while you hold the baby first, then building up. You have been through a great deal, giving birth and being a first time mum during a pandemic. That shows in what you write, I think. You should think about how best to build yourself up for the period when you can no longer have so much physical control over your baby.

Have a March baby.

Nobody held him except us for first twelve-ish weeks. I’m on the over-cautious side of the spectrum too - washing shopping until last week, still not set foot in Tesco etc.

It was a tough decision to “break the rules” and let family hold him, but we decided the government were going to be utter cunts and talk about opening businesses with no mention of family, so we’d likely be waiting forever and frankly it was killing me not letting anyone hold him.

I’m still actually really angry about his first few months being tarnished like this. I know we are incredibly lucky. I fought a long time to have a baby and went through a lot and do not want to risk him in any way. But it isn’t going away.

I hate also that whenever family do hold him I can’t just relax and I’m constantly thinking of all the “risk” they’re exposing him to.

So I get it. It’s shit. And I could smack that blond buffoon in the chops with a breast pump for his utter mangling of the country’s response.

I think that your focus on ‘waiting for a vaccine’ is misguided, and much too black and white. A 100% vaccine is not suddenly going to appear and make everything entirely risk free. Various vaccines are currently in development across the world - some may only be 60% effective, others only 80% or whatever. Some might initially seem 90% effective then a year down the line only turn out to be 50% effective. Science really is trial and error, and everyone is dealing with lots of unknowns at the moment.

Plus, without wanting to sound really pessimistic, it seems as though there’s chances of similar but different diseases emerging in the near future. Are you going to keep your baby away from family for another year or whatever if/when COVID 21 emerges?!

YABU but..if I had had my first baby in lockdown I suspect I would have been terrified too, given I used to freak out whenever she sneezed and stuff!

OP - continue to do exactly as you are doing if it reassures you. My DD is 2 weeks old and won’t be meeting her grandparents for some time to come, and with regards to her emotional health it won’t matter one bit. As long as your baby has one sound attachment relationship (eg you) they will be absolutely fine. I didn’t meet my grandparents until I was about 5 years old and I certainly don’t consider myself to be emotionally or socially stunted because of it! I have well controlled asthma (but asthma nonetheless) and my DS has viral induced wheeze each time he has a cold so remains shielded on the advice of his consultant. DH works from home, as was I prior to lockdown. Don’t listen to anyone saying ‘look at the stats’ - like that means anything if your child was the unlucky one that caught it!

@porcelinaofthevastoceanss

OP - continue to do exactly as you are doing if it reassures you. My DD is 2 weeks old and won’t be meeting her grandparents for some time to come, and with regards to her emotional health it won’t matter one bit. As long as your baby has one sound attachment relationship (eg you) they will be absolutely fine. I didn’t meet my grandparents until I was about 5 years old and I certainly don’t consider myself to be emotionally or socially stunted because of it! I have well controlled asthma (but asthma nonetheless) and my DS has viral induced wheeze each time he has a cold so remains shielded on the advice of his consultant. DH works from home, as was I prior to lockdown. Don’t listen to anyone saying ‘look at the stats’ - like that means anything if your child was the unlucky one that caught it!

I didn’t meet my grandparents until I was about 5 years old and I certainly don’t consider myself to be emotionally or socially stunted because of it!

And yet you say "As long as your baby has one sound attachment relationship (eg you) they will be absolutely fine."

And not the baby's father?

Not everyone exists on an island. Some people really do thrive around close families of more than 2 people.

It’s really sad your parents haven’t held her. You are being over protective. Let your baby build her immune system up by seeing other people.

I dont think its that your DH doesnt care about the risks but that now he is back at work/you are visiting coffee shops/restaurants etc the risks from letting your parents handle her isnt actually that much and she needs to start to know her grandparents.

As another poster said she will be mobile any moment now and how are you going to handle that?

I totally agree with you OP. We are supposed to be 1-2m socially distancing with people from outside our households, NOT holding and hugging each other. Can the grandparents see the baby in person but not touch/hug her? It seems very selfish for the grandparents to expect to hold the baby during this time, and for DH to support this.

I don't think your baby will be affected by only being held by you and your dh at this age.
What will you do if your dh allows his parents to hold your baby?
Perhaps you need to compromise and just let the mum's hold the baby after handwashing and wearing a mask.

YABU in my option and you are also BU for not listening to anyone who doesn’t agree.
I don’t understand people who post on here then get shirty when people say they are BU.