AIBU to think teachers should not be teaching sex games to children?

[2fallsagain]

Article In today's Times about teaching resources for RSE from the proud trust.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/government-gives-pupils-sex-advice-on-the-roll-of-a-dice-80hmsplws

In summary "The government has funded a tool kit written by the Proud Trust, an LGBT charity, which includes dice featuring words such as “anus”, “vulva”, “penis” and “hands and fingers”. Children are encouraged to throw the dice twice and talk about the sexual acts that can happen using the two body parts".

AIBU to think this is deeply inappropriate and any school using Proud Trust resources needs investigating? WTF is the government doing funding pornographic material for children?

Proud Trust coming out with this crap and ‘ Love has no age limit’ and promoting the book about the 7 year old doing oral. That was in a home education pack by the way - so no teacher, well trained or not, able to intervene

WTAF? Seriously? I just cannot understand how anyone thinks this is remotely acceptable. History's judgement on the adults who promoted this sinister BS will not be kind.

I thought the "love has no age limit" was from Diversity Role Models, not Proud Trust? But I may be wrong.

@mellowww

And if anyone ever tried to discuss anal sex with my 12-year-old daughter, teacher or not, I'd go straight to the police.

Or suggest my six-year-old son should give adult men blowjobs in the park.

You know what's happening here. It's that syndrome where a minority group were ghettoised and now they are becoming mainstream. But their practices are a choice. And that choice is being eroded. The practices are pretty much being stuffed down the throats (or into any orifices) of our growing children/teens.

Fuck that. I am not interested in what anyone else does - that's their business - but leave my children to make their own unbiased, un-groomed choices.

Female pleasure off the list? It's almost as if the ' game' was authored by men for men ... (and it's even more sinister in a game)

My kids will be sticking to Monopoly. And Miss Scarlet in Cluedo will be about as racy as it gets!

Do you mean trans people or gay men?

@beargrass

I thought the "love has no age limit" was from Diversity Role Models, not Proud Trust? But I may be wrong.

No it’s an older phrase. It’s certainly not the ‘Disney’ version! It makes my stomach knot when I see it.

Oh you are right. It was Diversity Role Models. Another lovely lot. My humble apologies to the Proud Trust who limit themselves to discussion of anal and docking for 13 year olds.

Diversity Role Models work with St Paul’s Girls school, who claimed they had 10 trans boys in their senior year a while back and had several former pupils claim a teacher still there groomed them when minors and continued after they left the school, he resigned and the head declared to the girls ‘people change’ ‘ he’s an important part of our school community’ and then organised a goodbye card so they’ve got a lot of issues around child safeguarding there. When pupils at the boys school, St. Paul’s, raised grooming and abuse concerns, a huge investigation involving the met police occurred and more than one teacher charged. So strange at the different responses between the girls and boys school.... I wonder why.

Funny how so many girls want to opt out of womanhood when you fill them full of this crap. Is anyone at SPGS able to join the dots ?

Better to talk about it and hear what comes out of their minds. I think any opportunity for kids to talk openly about these things in a structured and controlled environment such as school should be welcomed. It gives the teacher the chance to correct misconceptions created by the porn industry.

It sure beats learning everything you know about sex from internet porn influenced peer pressure. I count myself lucky never to have had anal sex but doubt many my age 20 years from now will be able to say they weren't coerced into trying it because their boyfriend saw it in porn videos so often that he thought it's normal.

YogiBearCub, I think there's a big difference between discussing the fact that anal sex features with an unrealistic prevalence in porn and that nobody should be putting pressure on or feel pressured to do it and that many people will find it painful, and asking children to roll dice and creatively describe ways to combine body parts in front of their teachers and peers. The first is, I would argue, important to protect children from being pressured into sex acts they don't want to perform, the second is embarrassing, humiliating and potentially traumatising for some students.

There is a middle ground for discussing these issues in a way that isn't harmful for students. The choice isn't between ignoring the issue totally and absolute loss of safe boundaries.

Anyone who thinks 11-year-olds and 13-year-olds having sex is okay, needs to be reminded that it's child rape and a serious criminal offence.

Even if they are doing it with each other, that's a huge issue. It's not 'normal'. And trying to make out it's just what kids do, appealing to most adults' experience of teenage relationships just looks like a deliberate tactic to normalise child rape.

And I think, by now, people using the word prude should realise that you might be saying it, but what people are hearing is you want to dismantle safeguarding and abolish children's boundaries.

Pearl clutching, prude, hysterical - any of those words used with regards to sex and children would automatically make me think you had something to hide.

The thread has run to hundreds of posts , and it's notable that not a single piece of evidence has arisen to show that talking to 13-year-olds about putting objects in each other's bums, is healthy and positive.

You're right on the money Datun. This argument is so incredibly frustrating because the many people expressing concerns about this aren't saying that children shouldn't receive sex education that addresses the huge problems surrounding porn culture.

We simply cannot as a society ever allow young children having sex to become seen as normal. This paves the way for the unthinkable. To describe adults as 'prudes' for thinking that children should never be put in the position where they are vividly describing niche sex acts to their TEACHERS is so deeply troubling. This type of talk, in my opinion, could be seen as a sex act in itself as it would be titillating to many. It's a million miles away from receiving factual sex and relationships information from trusted adults and being able to ask questions in a way that preserves their privacy and dignity.

Excellent post Datun.

It's a million miles away from receiving factual sex and relationships information from trusted adults and being able to ask questions in a way that preserves their privacy and dignity

Absolutely agree. It seems deliberately designed to cause embarrassment and anxiety. There is zero justification for any adult to promote graphic niche sex acts to children. What kind of sex ed is accompanied by an exhortation to hold your nerve? As Datun says, calling people names like prude for voicing their legitimate concerns about this appalling material doesn't cut any ice at all. This squalid episode is a window into the influence of lobbyists with a specific agenda and the ease with which they gain access to schools. It is shocking.

@Datun good post.

To describe adults as 'prudes' for thinking that children should never be put in the position where they are vividly describing niche sex acts to their TEACHERS is so deeply troubling.

Paedophiles go to extraordinary lengths to access children. Join the teaching profession, the priesthood, the police, the scouts, date single mothers. They can invest years and years to achieve their object.

Imagine how attractive being a company that specialises in sex education for children would be. It almost doesn't bear thinking about.

Anyone delivering sex education to children needs to be forensically examined. Every single part of their background, material, associations. All of it. They have to be squeakily, antiseptically, spotless.

And it's a terrible failing of our government that they're not doing it.

I've been thinking about this thread over the last couple of days and why I feel this approach to sexual education of our dc is so very wrong.
I have spent a lot of time working with dc who have been sexually abused so I am usually approaching the topic in a topsy turvy way.
The dc I work with have a lot of knowledge of sex and how the physical parts fit together.
They are also usually suffering significant mental distress, with accompanying physical side effects.
With older teenagers as they start to approach the end of the work one topic that is often discussed is sex itself and how in the future to have a healthy and enjoyable sex life.
Many teenagers are very scared that their abusive experiences will make this impossible for them, leading to damaged relationships and impacting their ability to have dc themselves in the future.
We talk a lot about what makes sex enjoyable.
It is nothing to do with rubbing body parts together, it is all about safety, trust, freely given informed consent, the ability to stop at any time if it isn't working for you.
That gives them the space to have fun, try things out, make mistakes, understand that like many bodily activities farts can come at a bad time etc.
These dc already understand what the adults writing this material can't seem to, that sex that revolves around men inserting objects is at best meaningless and at worst profoundly abusive.

Anyone delivering sex education to children needs to be forensically examined. Every single part of their background, material, associations. All of it. They have to be squeakily, antiseptically, spotless. And it's a terrible failing of our government that they're not doing it

It really is a shocking government failure. Because it isn't like even the most cursory examination of this material wouldn't trigger major alarm

It really is a shocking government failure. Because it isn't like even the most cursory examination of this material wouldn't trigger major alarm

Indeed. It's so blatant. They're either complacent, or blind to their own dodgy bias.

Spot on as usual Datun, you’ve only got to look at a certain prominent human rights activist and his questionable comments on “underage sex” (child abuse I call it). His foundation have positioned themselves as Sex Ed/RSE providers, including advocating for children to be taught how to masturbate.

@Datun

It really is a shocking government failure. Because it isn't like even the most cursory examination of this material wouldn't trigger major alarm

Indeed. It's so blatant. They're either complacent, or blind to their own dodgy bias.

I think that the desire to be seen as 'progressive' means that stuff is getting rubber stamped with zero oversight. They should be ashamed of themselves. They are supposed to be frickin Conservative. But it really is shocking that this is happening in schools. Another failure is the fourth estate. Where is the media outrage?

@CaveMum

Spot on as usual Datun, you’ve only got to look at a certain prominent human rights activist and his questionable comments on “underage sex” (child abuse I call it). His foundation have positioned themselves as Sex Ed/RSE providers, including advocating for children to be taught how to masturbate.

Indeed.

Indeed we asked a thousand mums whether they would want someone who claims nine-year-olds can enjoy 'cross generational sex', to teach their children about sex and masturbation.

Our survey said...

lakesidefall can I ask you something? I'm not sure what age you work with but is it common for the girls to adopt a super-experienced, know-it-all, sassy facade about sex and relationships as a sort of defence mechanism? This is something I did and I can't for the lift of me understand the link between the trauma and this act. I kept it up well into my twenties.

So many wise and informed comments on here. Yet not a single sentence spoken by the government about this? Nothing, despite articles in the Times and other media.
The government have, via the DfE and other government bodies, funded and recommended these organisations to schools - thus bestowing on them a credibility that they should never have had.
Are we to assume that this is deliberate on the part of ministers? That this is how they see children being treated under their watch Or is it rank cowardice? Is it too scary to stand up to a lobby group in case they're nasty, even if it's to stop them breaching basic safeguarding standards?

Lakeside fall, do your experiences with these young people make you think there should be more of a focus in sex and relationships education on abuse? As in talking about the fact that many people are abused, how grooming and abuse happen, providing info on how to get rape support, how to go to the police etc.

Because while we can teach young people how to have good relationships, many will experience sexual violence in the future.

Yes @Hangingover it isn't unusual at all.
A streetwise persona, for want of a better term isn't unusual as well at putting themselves into potentially dangerous situations and being highly sexually active sometimes.
I've seen it as a control mechanism, claiming the destructive thing that has happened to them and owning for themselves.
Logically if you have experienced total loss of power and control why would you want to portray yourself as vulnerable to anyone, you know what that feels like and it isn't good. So better to be in control and manage the narrative yourself.
It is particularly toxic if mixed with the very common belief that you as the abused were in some way responsible for the abuse so any guilt and shame you feel is your fault.
And a follow on fear that you are so damaged by your experiences that others will be able to see and sense your damage.
So again best get in there first as it is less emotionally damaging to run yourself down rather than have others do it.

@Stripesgalore yes, absolutely yes. I have tween dc I'm not going to be waiting for school to do this it is basic safety information in my view.