AIBU to think teachers should not be teaching sex games to children?

[2fallsagain]

Article In today's Times about teaching resources for RSE from the proud trust.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/government-gives-pupils-sex-advice-on-the-roll-of-a-dice-80hmsplws

In summary "The government has funded a tool kit written by the Proud Trust, an LGBT charity, which includes dice featuring words such as “anus”, “vulva”, “penis” and “hands and fingers”. Children are encouraged to throw the dice twice and talk about the sexual acts that can happen using the two body parts".

AIBU to think this is deeply inappropriate and any school using Proud Trust resources needs investigating? WTF is the government doing funding pornographic material for children?

Will look on her twitter feed

Oh the share token was not from me

I copied and pasted from a post in FWR on the same subject

And if anyone ever tried to discuss anal sex with my 12-year-old daughter, teacher or not, I'd go straight to the police.

Or suggest my six-year-old son should give adult men blowjobs in the park.

You know what's happening here. It's that syndrome where a minority group were ghettoised and now they are becoming mainstream. But their practices are a choice. And that choice is being eroded. The practices are pretty much being stuffed down the throats (or into any orifices) of our growing children/teens.

Fuck that. I am not interested in what anyone else does - that's their business - but leave my children to make their own unbiased, un-groomed choices.

Female pleasure off the list? It's almost as if the ' game' was authored by men for men ... (and it's even more sinister in a game)

My kids will be sticking to Monopoly. And Miss Scarlet in Cluedo will be about as racy as it gets!

Here we go hope you can read it

Information is power, and the fact that you found the term parents as patronising to women says more about you than it does me.

I never said I found that patronising, it’s your entire tone. I don’t see you addressing the problems with this game at all. You are here to disregard the actual topic and imply if we don’t like this game, we mustn’t be comfortable talking about sex with our kids. This thread is about this game and our thoughts on it.

@GilbertMarkham

So Pride have so far disseminated materials with the tag line "love has no age limit", a story about a six (?) year old performing oral sex, and now a dice game about combining random, disembodied body parts (including those only utilised in a sexual manner by niche, minority groups, while totally omitting the main (physical) body part responsible for orgasm in women) and people protesting are prudes, hysterical and morons??

If Pride equally consulted and represented lesbian and hi women why would the clitoris be missing from.theor materials?

Do it's basically a group representing gay, bi and trans men .. but they're supposed to be qualified to supply sex education teaching materials for our young women (and heterosexual young men for that matter). Well, children actually since they're below the age of consent and voting age.

Even if they were only supplying SE teaching materials for young men identifying as gay, bi or trans I'd be concerned about their materials.

After the under ten performing oral sex material this group should have been jettisoned to the far side of the universe or at the very least investigated .. but here we have women (?) calling others morons, prudes and hysterical for questioning the use of their teaching materials in our schools.

How are they still bypassing safeguarding??

This needs to be in the press, and political/legal action needs to be taken.

I agree with every thing you say.

I also think that some posters are not bothering to read the thread and find out what other content is involved in the ‘game’. They are just seeing ‘penis vagina Anus’ and thinking ‘what’s the big deal’

Either that or they are very odd...

Thanks for the response DaveProdrick

Any views on the subject of the thread? Maybe the FPA's views on the ethics / legality / morals / safeguarding of playing this male sex centred game with children?

‘Stripes I don't understand.

If you Google anal sex, and your parents haven't put child protection on, you will get pages and pages of porn.

Yes of course teaching children about checking different sources etc is great for other subjects.

'The idea that children should learn everything about sex from parents, teachers and youth workers is very disturbing. '

Where is your personal cut off then. What do you think children should learn in sex education.

And. Youth workers??? That reminds me of Adrian mole grin’

I have just googled anal sex. I don’t have any safety blocks on my computer. There are no porn links on the first page. There is a Wikipedia entry, medical information on the fecal incontinence rate in women who have anal sex, and a really good article by Brook on anal sex, covering the points people on this thread have raised about the topic. For example - not touching the vulva and the anus because of risks, women being pressured due to porn and so on. I suggest everyone on this thread reads it to see the contrast with the nonsense of this activity.

I would expect my teens (actually one is now in his twenties) to be able to identify Brook and medical information as credible sources. That’s why it is so dangerous when a county council publishes irresponsible advice to young people, because they should be a trusted source.

I wouldn’t want to personally say where the line is for a teacher, because I am not an expert and it would really a really long answer! I do know this dice game crosses the line and waves at everyone a very great distance from the line!

In terms of parents, giving sex and relationship advice isn’t a one off thing - it is something that is part of an ongoing relationship of trust and led by how much the child wants to raise particular topics.

With DD, we talk a lot about sexuality, sexism, controlling relationships, male gaze etc because we watch a lot of films together and that raises loads of issues in a fun way. So why is the vulnerability of Timothee Chalomet appealing to so many young women, why doesn’t Jo marry Laurie, why is Richard Madden attractive in Lady Chatterly in the Body Guard, the dynamics in Blurred Lines, Lana Del Rey’s subject matter and so on.

I mentioned youth workers because that is presumably who created the dice game!

The Brook link:

www.brook.org.uk/your-life/anal-sex/

Here is some of the content there:

‘Anal sex is sometimes seen as the default type of sex between men who have sex with men. This can mean that people end up having anal sex when it’s not enjoyable for them. Anal sex isn’t for everyone and it’s important to remember that there are lots of other ways you can enjoy sex without it.

Figures from the 2013 National Survey of Sexual Attitudes and Lifestyles show that almost one in five 16-24 year olds have had anal sex (19% of men, 17% of women).

Another 2013 study into anal heterosex by The London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine looked at anal sex among young people. It suggested that some young heterosexual couples are having anal sex that is not enjoyable for both parties and that sometimes girls are coerced (strongly pressured) into having unsafe and painful anal sex.

The reasons for this were varied and while the young people interviewed mentioned wanting to copy what they saw in pornography, there were various other reasons such as young men competing with one another to have anal sex. Worryingly, there seemed to be a lack of concern about the levels pain the young women might experience or whether they have their consent.’

There is a repetitive argument by posters who claim to be okay with this extremely troubling material that because porn is available online, forcing 13 year olds in school to discuss which object should be inserted into which orifice is acceptable. It isn't. It's a violation of safe guarding, it's a violation of privacy and boundaries. It's likely to be traumatic to sensitive children and it is particularly inappropriate for girls because its entire focus is phallic. The ubiquity of porn is not a justification for promoting its themes in school. What a bankrupt argument.

It's been stated earlier in this thread but bears repeating.
A 13 year old who told a teacher in school that they'd played a game with an adult that involved identifying which body orifice could be connected / inserted into another body orifice would generate an immediate safeguarding referral. Yet the government funds the Proud Trust to produce the game for teachers to use with children in school and that's OK?

Some posters are depressingly ignorant of the rights of children to be protected from abuse. The fear of being called a bigot is why we have had Jimmy Savile, Cyril Smith, Rotherham and all the other abusers who operated in plain sight. Parents must enable their children to have boundaries, not told that they're pearl clutchers or bigots - and children should be protected from adults immersed in queer theory / porn culture looking to share their 'beliefs' with them.

‘Be careful not to touch the vulva after touching someone’s anus without washing your hands first, because small traces of faeces can cause an infection in the vagina or the urinary tract. You could use gloves to touch the anus as a precaution.’

And this, as opposed to getting kids to talk about how to rub a vulva against an anus! Anyway, people should read the whole Brook page on the topic.

Sorry I've written "Pride" as the name of the org in my post but it should be "Proud".

A 13 year old who told a teacher in school that they'd played a game with an adult that involved identifying which body orifice could be connected / inserted into another body orifice would generate an immediate safeguarding referral. Yet the government funds the Proud Trust to produce the game for teachers to use with children in school and that's OK?

It's absolutely incredible. The government should hang their heads in shame. The truly shocking thing is they are supposed to be Conservatives. WTF were they thinking? Did any of them take a look at these materials?

I think it's so telling that, as far as I can see, there are no named individuals that wrote this scheme of work. If I'm using a published scheme of work for teaching maths, I can see who wrote it and look them up if I want to so that I can see they have expertise in their subject area and are qualified to make appropriate resources. I could also use schemes of work written by other teachers with expertise.

Exactly.

As other posters have said, why I'd this aspect of education exempt from assessment, vetting, evaluation, requirement for writers to be qualified experts etc.

They have shown themselves to be - in the very very best possible interpretation - totally ignorant and irresponsible re. child sex abuse, yet they continue to be allowed to supply sex education materials for kids.

And don’t forget they got paid nearly a 100 grand from the tampon trust fund to produce this stuff

@littlbrowndog

And don’t forget they got paid nearly a 100 grand from the tampon trust fund to produce this stuff

It's just gobsmacking. That money should have been used specifically for girls and women. Not for this female obliterating porn BS.

What sort of people relay someone's experience of performing fellatio on other boys (?) from the age of six; in a diversity pack as a representation of an identity/orientation, without the slightest apparent thought about the ethics, mental & physical health issues, safeguarding etc. around that.

They seem to be presenting it as a positive, representative account; "I've been sucking cock since I was 6 and I love it!"

All very well adjusted and not in the least bit disturbing.

Yet schools are still supposed to be using their sex education materials.

@littlbrowndog

And don’t forget they got paid nearly a 100 grand from the tampon trust fund to produce this stuff

Christ I bet they were laughing their bollocks off

thanks littlebrowndog

What a crappy, pathetic response. We know pretty much that he's a pathetic Secretary of State given the summer debacle but that's rubbish. It is funded by taxpayers. He should be horrified that this is being produced for children at all, let alone that the taxpayer funded it.

I'm going to chase my useless MP for the third time since I wrote to her about this in May

@GilbertMarkham

They have shown themselves to be - in the very very best possible interpretation - totally ignorant and irresponsible re. child sex abuse, yet they continue to be allowed to supply sex education materials for kids.

Heads should roll over this. How can anyone think that this material is suitable for any adult to promote to children? Who have given no consent to being forced to discuss graphic, niche sexual activity in front of their peers and teachers at school? It's such off the wall BS, it's unbelievable that anyone created this materials, and that it was given bank by the Conservatives to promote it in schools.

It's absolutely incredible. The government should hang their heads in shame. The truly shocking thing is they are supposed to be Conservatives. WTF were they thinking? Did any of them take a look at these materials?

I doubt it. I’d put money on it that this was farmed out to them along side the pack that was being sold in shops some time last year when groups like this were considered trendy and on point. Looks like no one bothered to check this second lot of material. It’s just blind belief that non education organisations can actually do this in a age appropriate sensitive manner.

As if this ever got put in front of the educational minister. No chance.

Just catching up with the thread and am unsurprised at the efforts of some to undermine and belittle the concerns of parents trying to safeguard their children, whom they know well, from being pushed into sexual conversations that are heavily slanted in a worrying direction in a supposedly safe and educational environment.

Yesterday I had conversations with my "DIL" 27, one of my housemates, male, 28, and two friends male 33, and female 31. We all come under the "alternative banner". We as adults, all do "live performance" including fire, freak shows, and suspension. We have done shows at fetish events and adult themed nightclubs, and at various types of festivals, including in Europe. We could all be described as liberal when it comes to sex, we have open conversations about it including less pleasant experiences. I am giving this information for context - I am the only parent and am 51. I must stress that our various live performance is not sexual in and of itself, it falls into the pushing visual and physical boundaries categories, and it is absolutely not marketed to under 18s.

I wanted to get the viewpoint of people younger than me who aren't "pearl clutching parents" and who are also able to remember their own sex education (and who aren't so young that a 51 year old unrelated woman questioning them about it would be seen as weird, predatory and inappropriate).

I asked them all "How do you think you would have felt if this game had been part of your sex education lessons when you were 13?" without immediately giving my opinion.

All of them said pretty much "Eww. God no. Sounds like something you'd get at Ann Summers."

As the conversation progressed, I heard them all express pretty much every concern brought up here, in some cases word for word. And the discomfort and dissent was from both sexes.

And when I went on to explain more, such as the lack of focus on the female anatomy and perspective, their minds began to boggle and they were very alarmed at the direction the world seems to be taking.

So as a random sample group who would never necessarily know about this "game", and who are so far from prudish, homophobic (at least two are quietly bi) or frigid and include people who have suffered MH issues, plus one who is not NT, I think it's fair to say this game is not appropriate, nor it's support material. They were particularly appalled at the "hold your nerve" bit. And I learned a few more terms for various sexual acts that required a fair bit of brain bleach (vodka) for me to get my head around.

So, to those progressive people championing these brave new methods of teaching to 13 year old children, if we "enlightened boundary pushing deviants" are all about boundaries, consent and actively engaged in making sure children are protected from inappropriate exposure to the things we make some sort of living from, do you really, really think there are no dangers posed by the direction sex education is being pushed in? Truly?

And don’t forget they got paid nearly a 100 grand from the tampon trust fund to produce this stuff

And they can't mention a clitoris in their teaching materials - because to them it either doesn't exist or doesn't matter. Fantastic.