AIBU to think teachers should not be teaching sex games to children?

[2fallsagain]

Article In today's Times about teaching resources for RSE from the proud trust.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/government-gives-pupils-sex-advice-on-the-roll-of-a-dice-80hmsplws

In summary "The government has funded a tool kit written by the Proud Trust, an LGBT charity, which includes dice featuring words such as “anus”, “vulva”, “penis” and “hands and fingers”. Children are encouraged to throw the dice twice and talk about the sexual acts that can happen using the two body parts".

AIBU to think this is deeply inappropriate and any school using Proud Trust resources needs investigating? WTF is the government doing funding pornographic material for children?

@DaveProdrick

I teach a course at schools called ‘Speakeasy’ which is aimed at parents enable them to feel comfortable talking to their children about sex and relationships. One of the activities is a timeline aged 0 - 16+ the parents turn over a card with a word on it ‘kissing’ ‘hugging’ ‘penis’ ‘vagina’ ‘oral sex’ a whole plethora of words covering the mild to the explicit. As a group the parents place the word on the timeline at the age they would be happy talking to their children about that word. They start of putting all the explicit words at the 16+ end but as they put more mild words further down they realise that if they start talking about a mild word it could with children’s questions lead them down a more detailed path, they the start moving things down from 16+. Parents and teachers are a trusted source of this information once children are at secondary school their friends will be talking to them about this stuff ( but a lot of it will be misleading or out of context ) if you want your children to be equipped with the power of correct information you have to take responsibility for it. It is far from pornography ( that will come from your child’s friends and their phones) it is vital information your child needs to make informed decisions and value their own body and future.

Could you give some examples of the more 'explicit' language? Does it involve 'docking', 'sunflowering' and 'fisting'?

Are you encouraging parents to talk about fisting with their underage children?

Could you give an example of where a 'mild word' could lead to talking about 'docking'?

I find it horrifying the number of posters on this thread accusing others of being ‘prudes’. ‘Prudes,’ as you call them, are women and girls with boundaries. Women and girls who do not want sex or do not want it in the way you think they should. What right have you to determine when and how girls and women should have or want sex? Who are you to decide they are wrong if they want to keep themselves for marriage like many religious girls do? Why should they be doing something just because that is what you want? You sound like creepy predators!

DaveProdrick
I agree with you for most of your post.

However, this game is not about opening up appropriate conversations and appropriate sex education.

Unfortunately some other posters on this thread seem to think that it's either accept most children are sexually active and push children to discuss ways objects go into various orifices, or be a twee little prude who is disgusted at the word 'penis'. It suits some posters to do this because it directs attention away from more awkward questions about the agendas behind some of the material.

Teachers already use appropriate words when teaching sex and relationships education, and very few parents have an issue with their child being taught about sex in an age appropriate way. There's no need for a game that would be a safeguarding red flag if a child mentioned playing it out of school. Safeguarding has to be for everyone. Some people have an issue with this. I'm very wary of anyone who is keen to opt out of safeguarding.

It's vital that 13 yo boys and girls can think of ways to combine anus and anus to tell the class when they roll that?

I can't even work out the logistics of 2 people being able to rub their aresholes together!

And rubbing anus and vulva together sounds like a recipe for UTI! if you can even reach to rub them

Maybe Dave you can enlighten us on how humans with bun cheeks in the way can even manage to do that!

This pack doesn't mention stuff useful to girls about avoiding UTIs does it. Now I think of it. That would be genuinely useful.

I can't comment on the game as can't read the article. In my day at school there was very little open, frank discussion between students and teachers/adults. There was lots of underage sex and experimentation regardless, not always positive especially outside of a teen relationship (cider, park and what ensues). In my peer group from 14 - 18 losing virginity etc depending on relationships and situation. I'm sure our parents slept well at night and were troubled by no embarrassing conversations but I look back and shudder at the lack of information and discussion (birth control was the basic thankfully) and as a consequence stumbling into situations that we had no real idea about and perhaps didn't always really want to be in. To have had open conversations and also the ability to talk about consent, respect and also whether you actually want xyz sex act would have been revolutionary. On a different note I have always talked about bodies with our kids, answered questions matter of factly about bodies and how they work, I refuse to attach any embarrassment to normal bodily processes, unlike in my childhood home where the word period was never uttered by my mother. It just bred shame and a lack of self-respect.

Young girls being taught via this “game” will come away with the message that sex is various things being shoved into orifices, that anal sex is fairly standard and it’s mainly about male sexual pleasure.

It’s not a game that understands female sexuality. Girls won’t orgasm from “sunflowering”, rubbing their vulva against an anus or having penises or “objects” anally penetrate them.

But because they are being taught all this at school their perception will be that this is what sex is. And, like women on this thread are, they’ll be called names if they object or are uncomfortable. However, unlike women on this thread, they’ll take it to heart. If “everyone” is having sex and if this is what they’re taught sex is - at school! - then they’re being set up for terrible sex and distorted boundaries. Who thought this was a good idea?

I think objections to this form of sex ed will come from parents across the political spectrum. I don't think it is a left wing thing. I consider my politics to be to the left and I find it appalling for reasons already outlined.

The number of posters who pop up to share their opinion without having read the thread is tedious.

Sadly, I think 'sunflowering' is an actual word. About four or five years ago a colleague told me that his son asked him if he knew what a 'sunflower' was. My colleague was 50. His son was about 12 at the time (maybe 13). My colleague hadn't heard of it so his son explained it to him.

I hadn't heard of it either and was rather shocked...

DaveProdrick
Speakeasy is a Family Planning Association course for parents to speak to their children about sex and relationships.
Are you really telling us that the FPA is suggesting parents using this game with 13 year olds? Or have you just not read the thread but popped in to patronise women by implying that we're prudes and don't talk openly and sensitively to our own children ?

To have had open conversations and also the ability to talk about consent, respect and also whether you actually want xyz sex act would have been revolutionary. this is evidence based good sex education. Sex acts should not be introduced as ‘a topic’ at all, safeguarding is a higher priority, so relationships, feelings, what kids have been already exposed to, are but again only with trained professionals, which are not teachers either.

‘They start of putting all the explicit words at the 16+ end but as they put more mild words further down they realise that if they start talking about a mild word it could with children’s questions lead them down a more detailed path, they the start moving things down from 16+. Parents and teachers are a trusted source of this information once children are at secondary school their friends will be talking to them about this stuff ( but a lot of it will be misleading or out of context ) if you want your children to be equipped with the power of correct information you have to take responsibility for it.’

Talking about sex at home with my own teen is wholly different to my teen being made to talk about graphic sex with a peer group in school.

Part of taking responsibility as a parent is teaching your child how to be a responsible person who has the ability to find information out for themselves, not to have to be told everything by an adult.

Yeah that's a terrible idea.

Where will children 'find out things for themselves'. Google. What will they find? Erm...

They need to be able to ask questions in a safe way. EG write questions down and put them in a bag. Teacher reads question and answers. Anonymous. As part of sex education. And pros and cons etc can be discussed.

There is a middle ground between this game and not having anyone to ask and getting God only knows what info.

I think these were the same charity who had a video with several sexual statements including ‘Love has no age limits ‘ and a link to a recommended book for secondary school age kids with descriptions of an under 10 year old wanting sex, am I right?

They sent it to Asda who sent it out to parents.

They then changed it after there was a big furore. If no one had checked this would have been shown to kids, many of whom will be being abused. It is mind boggling incompetency and badly thought through sex education / diversity materials.

Just had a Google yes two references to love has no age, and a link to a recommend book which included a thing about a6yo giving oral sex with no commentary that that's not ok..

@Helmetbymidnight

its so important that girls hear formally from teachers in fun based group activities the ways they can be penetrated (and nothing about breasts/clitoris)

this way they can focus exclusively on pleasuring men and when their first date tries to stick it up their arse, they know that it is fun, normal and expected of them.

😅😯☹️ true

You can Google the proud trust and look at their remit and some of their materials.

They are (unsurprisingly given the name) a group primarily for LGBT+ youth.

That may explain why their content is so useless about female sexuality etc. Most LGB groups back in the day forgot about lesbians. And that hasn't changed even as the umbrella has widened.

Their primary focus would have been / is male centric. That shows in the materials.

@CaveMum

I think a lot of comments on this thread are reflective of the attitude of a number of parents who feel their role is to be “friends” with their children rather than actually parent them.

Some people are so desperate to appear “cool” and “down with the kids” that they will happily agree to this kind of crap. It’s woke cookies all over.

This, 100%. Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. Put them in place for kids, they learn they can put them in place for themselves. All this bullshit of “kids know what’s best for themselves” is so problematic.

Misunderstanding of how clitoris works
Incorrect explanation of female masturbation
Massive focus on penis
No mention of breasts
...

Anyone got any thoughts on

Picking age 13 up rather than going by school year. Which doesn't make sense in a school setting. Do they mean 12/13 or 13/14 years? Incidentally 13 is the age at which sex with a child stops being a 'no excuses' crime.

Talking about genitals that have been altered through gender reassignment surgery. Which you can't have until you're an adult. Children experimenting with other children in secondary school is a long way from underage children having sex with adults.

Conflating GRS with FGM. ???

Anyone got any thoughts on

Picking age 13 up rather than going by school year. Which doesn't make sense in a school setting. Do they mean 12/13 or 13/14 years? Incidentally 13 is the age at which sex with a child stops being a 'no excuses' crime.

It means they can talk about ‘teenagers’ having sex and many people will picture 15/16/17 year olds, rather than who it is actually aimed at, which is actually young children. If they said 12 year olds, people are more likely to picture a child. A sly use of language, but then again, the whole ‘teaching aid’ is full of sly language.

@NiceGerbil so it was the Proud Trust then.

I remember at the time being really shocked, not just by the materials such as “Love has no age limit’ - but by the complete lack of accountability or investigation by anyone into how this had happened. It just seemed to have got swept under the carpet - and people complaining were even told that there was nothing inappropriate - once they’d hurriedly taken off the link.

It is one thing to make huge mistakes.

It is another for ASDA and whoever funds this charity, and any safeguarding national leads to not follow up and investigate whether anyone involved in the materials, the charity, any organisations using them, are fit to be recommending or working with children considering the huge safeguarding concerns. But nothing. Not even a proper admittance and apology.

I can't believe anyone is defending this tbh.
Was chatting to my cousin (a childcare professional of over a decade) about it and she agrees. She said over her dead body would her kids be subjected to this grooming. Now, she is young still and was pretty wild as a teen, so definitely not a "prude" but everything she has ever learned about safeguarding is undermined by this "sex" ed.
As for "European" PMSL. God the middle classes really will fall for any old shite sometimes. Sorry, but the reason this crap gets accepted is because some liberal well meaning council worker somewhere thinks that they are being progressive and down with the kids. They are BEING USED by the paedophiles who wrote this garbage!

‘There is a middle ground between this game and not having anyone to ask and getting God only knows what info.‘

Yes, and the middle ground would be some areas where you feel you can ask your parents or another trusted adult and things where you found it out for yourself.

So much is done on teaching kids about finding reliable sources, about understanding the difference between fact and opinions. I have also done a lot with my kids on understanding sexism, consumerism, prejudices and so on.

So they are capable of going and looking at information and making their own judgements.

And a lot about sex is about working about for yourself what you like, through your own senses.

The idea that children should learn everything about sex from parents, teachers and youth workers is very disturbing. There should be a boundary between adults and kids.

I wonder how much knowledge about sex anyone on this thread would have to wanted to get from a teacher.

I learned about sex and relationships through reading fiction and non fiction books and magazines, listening to debates on the tv, from songs, from talking to friends and from my own body.

There should be a limit to what schools teach. These kind of organisations are there for teens who can’t manage without some kind of adult intervention and a formal support group. That isn’t what most people want for their kids.

‘Where will children 'find out things for themselves'. Google. What will they find? Erm...’

Yes. Welcome to 2020. The internet exists. It’s a core part of parenting to teach teens how to use it in a responsible and ethical fashion. They can’t navigate life without that skill.