AIBU to think teachers should not be teaching sex games to children?

[2fallsagain]

Article In today's Times about teaching resources for RSE from the proud trust.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/government-gives-pupils-sex-advice-on-the-roll-of-a-dice-80hmsplws

In summary "The government has funded a tool kit written by the Proud Trust, an LGBT charity, which includes dice featuring words such as “anus”, “vulva”, “penis” and “hands and fingers”. Children are encouraged to throw the dice twice and talk about the sexual acts that can happen using the two body parts".

AIBU to think this is deeply inappropriate and any school using Proud Trust resources needs investigating? WTF is the government doing funding pornographic material for children?

Some adult probably thought they were being down with the kids by using urban dictionary, not understanding that it is mostly jokes and trolling.

Haha I totally agree. This dice game feels like it was created by the "cool mum" in Mean Girls. "Hey girls, if you want to sunflower then that's totally cool, I'd just rather you do it in the house".

Personally I think, if handled correctly, it’s a good thing. Encourages children to talk more freely about their bodies, thus becoming more confident with them and also in speaking about sex. In turn I would think it would also make speaking freely about potential abuse or things that make them feel uncomfortable easier too. I’m all for it when my kids are old enough - if it’s managed in the right way.

@SoManyActivities

And then 10 - 12 year olds who are exposed to porn are exposed to it because somewhere parents aren't doing a good enough job of protecting their kids.

One of my 10 year old DS's closest friends has had a few incidents now where he has come across inappropriate stuff online because his parents (who are normal nice people) are woeful at keeping tabs on this stuff. I won't let DS go for a sleepover at this kids house (luckily he is not bothered about sleepovers anyway) and I am also extra careful with him having online contact with this particular child because of this. I haven't made a big deal about it or anything, but I am super aware of it because I know this child is probably
going to be coming across porn in the next couple of years and I know I can't eliminate the risk of my son being exposed to it, I know it's coming at some point, but I want to do everything I can to limit that risk.

The whole 'well they are gonna see a woman getting penetrated by 3 different men at the same time by the time they are 12, so we might as well normalise it for them' is such fucking bullshit.

Yes - my son had a friend with a much older brother who doesn't make many boundaries in terms of his internet access. His sexual chat in year 6 and 7 frightened many of his friends and meant he was no longer welcome in our home.

I have a 13 year old and I know he and his friends haven't even kissed anyone (male or female).

I don't think sexual development changes much over the decades - I think the pressure to engage from outside agencies does. When I was young, it was magazines and my peers. Nowadays, it's government funded charities.

@ToftyAC

Most 13 year olds know about this anyway. I find this a very European approach to sex Ed, which is a much better idea. They know how not to be prudes and open and honest.

Really. So you will give us some links to these European Sex Ed resources? I call bullshit.

YABU.

Kids as young as 11 are having sex because A) they want to and B) parents and schools haven't been teaching Sex Ed in a way kids can relate to EVER.

Also, teachers aren't idiots: if it's not appropriate they won't do it. Likewise, kids aren't idiots either: if you think your little cherubs don't know what willies, vaginas and blow jobs are you are in for a world of disappointment.

Anyway, it will likely never happen and as for suggesting the LBTQ community are basically perverts for trying to put forward a half decent programme when our current one has been failing for decades..... jog on.

I would rather be taught by a Pride programme than any other, at least they are honest and have a sense of humour and our kids will grasp the fundamentals of same sex relationships, which is LONG overdue in this country.

I don't think sexual development changes much over the decades - I think the pressure to engage from outside agencies does. When I was young, it was magazines and my peers. Nowadays, it's government funded charities.

Exactly. I absolutely hate this narrative that all 13 year olds are shagging each other and having healthy sexual relationships these days because everyone is just so much more sexually liberated than the last generation.

There will still be the same range of sexual development as there was a generation ago and more. There will be some children who reach 14 or 15 and haven't kissed anyone yet, and don't feel anywhere near ready for anything real with a real person and are in fact still just into fantasising about boy bands etc. These children still exist, as they always have done.

@FelicisNox

YABU.

Kids as young as 11 are having sex because A) they want to and B) parents and schools haven't been teaching Sex Ed in a way kids can relate to EVER.

Also, teachers aren't idiots: if it's not appropriate they won't do it. Likewise, kids aren't idiots either: if you think your little cherubs don't know what willies, vaginas and blow jobs are you are in for a world of disappointment.

Anyway, it will likely never happen and as for suggesting the LBTQ community are basically perverts for trying to put forward a half decent programme when our current one has been failing for decades..... jog on.

I would rather be taught by a Pride programme than any other, at least they are honest and have a sense of humour and our kids will grasp the fundamentals of same sex relationships, which is LONG overdue in this country.

That post did not come across in the way that you think it did.

They're like those wind up toys aren't they?

Hmm,
kids will grasp the fundamentals of same sex relationships,
Thinking that lesbians are going to be rather short changed in the sex education we are currently discussing.

Anyway, it will likely never happen

The more publicity this gets, the better. The more parents question this, the better. The more a forensic spotlight is shone on the materials being promoted to 13 year olds in school, the better. The more people question why the government is bankrolling this? The better. And as for those who rock up to offer the lamest excuses to justify forcing children without consent, boundaries, respect for privacy or any attempt to warn about peer pressure or the negative influence of porn? The more they attempt to defend this? The more indefensible it looks.

@SoManyActivities

I don't think sexual development changes much over the decades - I think the pressure to engage from outside agencies does. When I was young, it was magazines and my peers. Nowadays, it's government funded charities.

Exactly. I absolutely hate this narrative that all 13 year olds are shagging each other and having healthy sexual relationships these days because everyone is just so much more sexually liberated than the last generation.

There will still be the same range of sexual development as there was a generation ago and more. There will be some children who reach 14 or 15 and haven't kissed anyone yet, and don't feel anywhere near ready for anything real with a real person and are in fact still just into fantasising about boy bands etc. These children still exist, as they always have done.

I read a book called raising girls and they said that our 14 year olds are where 17 year old were at a decade ago. And I bloody believe it with the amount of sexual pressure they are under

@lakesidefall

Hmm, kids will grasp the fundamentals of same sex relationships, Thinking that lesbians are going to be rather short changed in the sex education we are currently discussing.

Absolutely.

Why do kids need to be taught this in school? I’ve managed all my life with a bit of playground banter, a few Cosmo articles and trial and error. No teacher or parent ever told me how another persons body could touch mine.

Pointless waste of school time.

Hmmm.. this world is so PC now especially what they can do/can say/can’t say, in schools especially so I’d imagine it is handled professionally by the teacher. Does sound slightly like a sex game but again it’s better talking about sex stuff openly?

So in summary.

This game is to be played in a whole class setting with children aged from 13.

It does not include the clitoris, consent, coercion etc.

It does highlight a range of tricky/ advanced / niche actitivies (rubbing aresholes together? I can't even begin to understand the logistics of that)

It fails to take into account that some children may not have hit puberty yet, some children may be abused and will feel who only knows what, and let's be honest most children will be utterly mortified

It does encourage children to have a good thing about how various parts and apparatus could fit together. Use your imagination!

It doesn't recognise that some of these acts are pretty out there or tricky (eg prep for anal)

The penis section 'intersects' with everything and the 'vulva' second from last.

It explains how genitals of people who have had gender reassignment surgery might look- surgery only available to adults. That's a worry.

It puts fgm and grs in the same section..!

And if I've read correctly, in the blurb where it does mention the clit it's described as external, internal clit is the prostate. Despite the fact that the actual clitoris has a large internal structure which goes a long way towards explaining many female sexual responses.

Also says female masturbation is fingering yourself??!!

And we have loads of women saying this sounds great.

Ok.

It's penis centric, non child centred, ignores or tells in inaccuracies about female sexuality and function. And introduces really specialised/ advanced/ bonkers ideas and practices.

And the children will be mortified, best case scenario.

I think sex and relationship info is really important. Not all children will get it at home. Porn is prevalent and shows often really misogynistic content. That's what needs dealing with. Respect. Consent. Some people like this or that but don't do anything you're not sure about. Ciercion. Questions from them. Etc.

Not this shite.

@ToftyAC

Most 13 year olds know about this anyway. I find this a very European approach to sex Ed, which is a much better idea. They know how not to be prudes and open and honest.

If one of my teachers had talked 'openly' in class about sex I'd have been utterly mortified.

I think there is a real danger here that we're enforcing 'openness' on kids who may prefer their thoughts and feelings on sex to remain private, and putting them at risk of being considered 'prudes' (a horrible and entirely unhelpful word as it's utterly subjective) if they choose to be private about this topic.

This is such a powerful thread; I realise that all my life I've wondered if I'm a prude - I don't think I am - just particular & private. So the discussion here is so reassuring and heartening.

We need to find ways of allowing girls to find and establish boundaries, and to reject the "frigid" or "prude" insults.

That term 'frigid' was so thrown about throughout my adolescent years. By boys against any girl who didn't respond to them. Or 'lesbian' - a special insult for girls who rejected them.

Kids as young as 11 are having sex because A) they want to and B) parents and schools haven't been teaching Sex Ed in a way kids can relate to EVER.

If a child is having sex at 11 years old that is a HUGE safeguarding red flag and social services would be involved. This is absolutely not happening in all but the most worrying and concerning of circumstances. And for an adult, any adult, to say that kids have sex because they want it - is extremely worrying - it is the kind of thing groomers will say to kids.

@ItalianHat

This is such a powerful thread; I realise that all my life I've wondered if I'm a prude - I don't think I am - just particular & private. So the discussion here is so reassuring and heartening.

We need to find ways of allowing girls to find and establish boundaries, and to reject the "frigid" or "prude" insults.

That term 'frigid' was so thrown about throughout my adolescent years. By boys against any girl who didn't respond to them. Or 'lesbian' - a special insult for girls who rejected them.

I got that a lot. Or its regional variant, 'fridge'.

For heavens sake! This doesn't get children talking openly about their bodies or sex (incidentally, I don't think children should HAVE to talk openly about their bodies or sex), it gets them talking about niche sexual practices, some of which are dangerous, in front of their peers and TEACHERS. Not a single poster has objected to their child knowing the word anus, vagina, penis etc. Pretending that this is the issue people have is deliberately misunderstanding.

I'm so, so worried about the number of people trying to say that all young teenagers are accessing hardcore pornography. It's not true, why the keenness to insist that the majority of children have more developed sexualities than they actually do?

@PhilSwagielka yes looking back I realized that girls were called ‘frigid’ if they didn’t do what the older boys wanted. At the time we all just accepted it, now I realize with horror how coercive using that term was and is.

I got made fun of for being a virgin in Year 7. YEAR 7. I was 12! I wasn't even interested in sex!

@NiceGerbil

So in summary.

This game is to be played in a whole class setting with children aged from 13.

It does not include the clitoris, consent, coercion etc.

It does highlight a range of tricky/ advanced / niche actitivies (rubbing aresholes together? I can't even begin to understand the logistics of that)

It fails to take into account that some children may not have hit puberty yet, some children may be abused and will feel who only knows what, and let's be honest most children will be utterly mortified

It does encourage children to have a good thing about how various parts and apparatus could fit together. Use your imagination!

It doesn't recognise that some of these acts are pretty out there or tricky (eg prep for anal)

The penis section 'intersects' with everything and the 'vulva' second from last.

It explains how genitals of people who have had gender reassignment surgery might look- surgery only available to adults. That's a worry.

It puts fgm and grs in the same section..!

And if I've read correctly, in the blurb where it does mention the clit it's described as external, internal clit is the prostate. Despite the fact that the actual clitoris has a large internal structure which goes a long way towards explaining many female sexual responses.

Also says female masturbation is fingering yourself??!!

And we have loads of women saying this sounds great.

Ok.

It's penis centric, non child centred, ignores or tells in inaccuracies about female sexuality and function. And introduces really specialised/ advanced/ bonkers ideas and practices.

And the children will be mortified, best case scenario.

I think sex and relationship info is really important. Not all children will get it at home. Porn is prevalent and shows often really misogynistic content. That's what needs dealing with. Respect. Consent. Some people like this or that but don't do anything you're not sure about. Ciercion. Questions from them. Etc.

Not this shite.

Nice

Exactly. It is totally inappropriate, phallocentric BS. Why is the government bankrolling this?

Imagine a teenage girl having to sit next to a boy while he discusses putting objects in a vulva.

Which is not even possible. Interesting how the game describes in quite specific detail about how foreskins can be involved in sexual activity (do they talk about pleasure at all?) but the "game" conflates vulva and vagina (maybe the writers don't know the difference?) and omit the clitoris.

Blokes.

Agree this is really dodgy. Surely, given the prevalence of porn, the main thing we need to be teaching kids about (e.g.) anal sex is that it’s normal not to do it? The biggest danger is that they’re being pressured into thinking all kinds of weird stuff is normal.

If they want to try it out later when they’re grown up, that’s their choice.