AIBU to think teachers should not be teaching sex games to children?

[2fallsagain]

Article In today's Times about teaching resources for RSE from the proud trust.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/government-gives-pupils-sex-advice-on-the-roll-of-a-dice-80hmsplws

In summary "The government has funded a tool kit written by the Proud Trust, an LGBT charity, which includes dice featuring words such as “anus”, “vulva”, “penis” and “hands and fingers”. Children are encouraged to throw the dice twice and talk about the sexual acts that can happen using the two body parts".

AIBU to think this is deeply inappropriate and any school using Proud Trust resources needs investigating? WTF is the government doing funding pornographic material for children?

Having seen @Stripesgalore comment re the passages dealing with female masturbation/clitoris, it is becoming ever clearer that seemingly no women were involved in this resource whatsoever. It really doesn't surprise me though.

Worrying, dangerous and girls deserve more.

It is apparently the DCMS which is in charge of tampon tax grants. I suggest we all write to them and Baroness Barran (possibly copying in Baroness Nicholson).

The more we can get young people talking about sex and their bodies and what they expect and what they could expect etc etc etc is very important. Yes we need to arm our children (at a sensible age) with as much knowledge as we possibly can.
Clitoris of course should be key also, not ok if that is not part of the talk.

So this is finally coming out. What shame about the paywall, seems The Times is the only publication with the backbone to stand up to the powerful lobby promoting this.

They left out the complete text and the fact that Dice combinations can include OBJECT+ANUS or OBJECT+VULVA etc. Or that Clitoris and Prostate are glossed over as "internal". In contradiction to Biology lessons, what are pupils to make of that?

See the attached image, are you still ok with your DC being taught this?

Who exactly is this helping? And how?

I havent read the whole thread (sorry) but in this internet age, kids tend to discover porn between 10 and 12 years old. So i think these kinds of discussions need to be had. They have to learn it should be enjoyable, but that you have to be comfortable with EVERYTHING that you do and not pressured into doing anything that they dont want to.

I saw a documentary that investigated the effect of porn on what young folk view as "regular/normal sex" and that was more disturbing that using "sex dice" as a discussion tool.

@CateJW

I havent read the whole thread (sorry) but in this internet age, kids tend to discover porn between 10 and 12 years old. So i think these kinds of discussions need to be had. They have to learn it should be enjoyable, but that you have to be comfortable with EVERYTHING that you do and not pressured into doing anything that they dont want to.

I saw a documentary that investigated the effect of porn on what young folk view as "regular/normal sex" and that was more disturbing that using "sex dice" as a discussion tool.

You should probably read the thread @CateJW. Would you be happy your 13 year old learning about ‘docking’ or group sex - as that’s part of the dice ‘game’ too.

No, I would not allow my child to remain at a school that did a lesson like that.

It’s part of the agenda by certain lobbyists who call themselves LBGQT but are all biologically male and usually trans to teach children that anal sex is normal and that the sexual experience of biological females ie clitoris etc is meaningless.

Call a spade a spade: this is fucking creepy. People who want to teach little kids about anal sex are pervs.

I really hope the lessons were at least single sex. Imagine a teenage girl having to sit next to a boy while he discusses putting objects in a vulva. It’s state sponsored sexual harassment.

Most 13 year olds know about this anyway. I find this a very European approach to sex Ed, which is a much better idea. They know how not to be prudes and open and honest.

kids tend to discover porn between 10 and 12 years old. So i think these kinds of discussions need to be had.

NO they do not need to be had like this! There is a way to talk to kids about sex but this is not it. As has been said numerous times. Just because porn exists doesn’t mean we should normalise the degrading aspects of it. Objects in the anus games are totally inappropriate.

@Reubenshat to be fair, I have just seen that there is mention of fisting but no mention of the clitoris anywhere....so whilst maybe the idea could have worked (and i stand by my point that sadly we do need to be having indepth discussions on this subject) this particular one seems to have missed the point by a mile!!

Most 13 year olds know about this anyway

This is a myth. Some kids know. Some kids know because they’re being abused. Most kids don’t know the level of detail we are being told they do. But no kid I’ve ever known wants to throw a dice and have to talk in class with their teacher about what objects might go in their anus or what a vulva and anus rubbed together might feel like. This is so gross to have to keep saying to the weird people defending this. 12-13 year olds. Ffs

I find this a very European approach to sex Ed

Really? Can you perhaps point us to where we can see this kind of thing as sex ed for 12-13+ in any European country. I would be surprised.

@ToftyAC

Most 13 year olds know about this anyway. I find this a very European approach to sex Ed, which is a much better idea. They know how not to be prudes and open and honest.

About fisting and 'sunflowering'? At 13? Why do kids of that age need that kind of stuff normalising? Who exactly benefits from that?

And if they are seeing this stuff in porn, they need teaching that stuff like fisting is not mainstream sexual practice and that most of the stuff in porn is not normal sex and they are not expected to do that stuff.

Not that they should 'hold their nerve' if they feel uncomfortable.

Jesus Fucking Christ.

And fuck off with 'prudes' - it doesn't work round these parts I'm afraid.

Saying kids discover porn at 10-12 is meaningless. Discovering porn can mean one dodgy ad flashed up on your computer screen through to an adult abusing you by exposing you to pornography.

Most 10-12 year olds are not going to be watching porn, and even if they were, this material doesn’t even cover some of the most common types of porn.

Nor does it cover many of the common ways people experience sexual pleasure.

For all the focus on the anus, it doesn’t actually explain how to prep someone for anal sex.

It’s just badly written nonsense, and age inappropriate.

Most 13 year olds know about this anyway. I find this a very European approach to sex Ed, which is a much better idea. They know how not to be prudes and open and honest

It's genuinely disturbing how many adults seem to think that appropriate sex education that follows basic safeguarding principles is being a 'prude'.

It feels like the grown up version of teens calling each other frigid for having personal boundaries.

We really ought to be questioning why some adults be so willing to disregard consent and boundaries in favour of nasty shaming.

One last time for people at the back: it's totally possible to have open and appropriate sex education without games that push children into discussing how objects can be inserted into orifices.

And then 10 - 12 year olds who are exposed to porn are exposed to it because somewhere parents aren't doing a good enough job of protecting their kids.

One of my 10 year old DS's closest friends has had a few incidents now where he has come across inappropriate stuff online because his parents (who are normal nice people) are woeful at keeping tabs on this stuff. I won't let DS go for a sleepover at this kids house (luckily he is not bothered about sleepovers anyway) and I am also extra careful with him having online contact with this particular child because of this. I haven't made a big deal about it or anything, but I am super aware of it because I know this child is probably
going to be coming across porn in the next couple of years and I know I can't eliminate the risk of my son being exposed to it, I know it's coming at some point, but I want to do everything I can to limit that risk.

The whole 'well they are gonna see a woman getting penetrated by 3 different men at the same time by the time they are 12, so we might as well normalise it for them' is such fucking bullshit.

I don’t believe sunflowering is a real term.

Some adult probably thought they were being down with the kids by using urban dictionary, not understanding that it is mostly jokes and trolling. They then took the term and used it on a sex education website thinking it was real.

I can’t find any mention of sunflowering elsewhere and nobody on here seems to have heard of it. It is also an act too dangerous for someone to consent to.

Hilarious blasé commentary about the ever so superior Continentals and their savour faire when it comes to teaching 13 year olds about docking.

What absolute baloney. Please do supply said government sponsored materials and the analysis as to its effectiveness in empowering children to avoid coercion and achieve happy and safe sex lives in later life.

My French is not too bad - I’m sure I could work it out (although I didn’t know the meaning of some English words that have already been referenced). We’ve probably got a range of other languages on the board too.

Please do come forth with what you have seen that compares and has been successful.

Yeah, the idea that we are behind because 'The Europeans' are teaching young teens that violent sexual acts are perfectly normal and it's us Brits who are behind would be hilarious if it wasn't so awful.

Wasn't the openess around sex in places like Holland and Scandinavia more about ensuring that kids knew exactly how sex works and how it can result in pregnancy, and ensuring they knew that myths like 'you can't get pregnant if you have sex standing up' weren't true?

I mean, you wouldn't even be risking pregnancy in a lot of the acts that are being pushed on young in these materials because it's all about rubbing arse holes together and whatnot!

@2fallsagain yep exactly what I was going to say! It is absolutely a form of grooming of our children on an enormous scale! I'm sorry but no child needs to know about what to do with an anus and a fist or whatever or tongue! It just screams paedophilia! It also screams irresponsible

I lived in Holland for a while. Haven’t had kids in education there, but I’d bet my mortgage their sex ed includes a LOT about consent, respect and doesn’t ignore the fact that women have a clitoris.

Just because kids might discover porn doesn't mean it should be normalised for kids. There's a reason it's called adult material.

Much better to teach kids about consent, trust and self esteem. That stuff isn't covered in a single lesson. It takes a lot of work.

And if you don't teach teens that women have a clitoris then you aren't teaching sex properly.

I think a lot of comments on this thread are reflective of the attitude of a number of parents who feel their role is to be “friends” with their children rather than actually parent them.

Some people are so desperate to appear “cool” and “down with the kids” that they will happily agree to this kind of crap. It’s woke cookies all over.

@ToftyAC

Most 13 year olds know about this anyway. I find this a very European approach to sex Ed, which is a much better idea. They know how not to be prudes and open and honest.

I am European (ie not British). This is not how sex ed is taught in Europe.

And fwiw, the teenage pregnancy rate in the U.K. is lower than some European countries. There are complex social reasons behind teenage pregnancy which don't have much to do with the quality (or otherwise of sex education).

Further, there is nothing in this pack that talks about safe sex of any kind.