AIBU to think teachers should not be teaching sex games to children?

[2fallsagain]

Article In today's Times about teaching resources for RSE from the proud trust.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/government-gives-pupils-sex-advice-on-the-roll-of-a-dice-80hmsplws

In summary "The government has funded a tool kit written by the Proud Trust, an LGBT charity, which includes dice featuring words such as “anus”, “vulva”, “penis” and “hands and fingers”. Children are encouraged to throw the dice twice and talk about the sexual acts that can happen using the two body parts".

AIBU to think this is deeply inappropriate and any school using Proud Trust resources needs investigating? WTF is the government doing funding pornographic material for children?

This is another thing that bothers me - because some parents don't necessarily do the best job of sex education at home or may not be as understanding of LGBT children, the attitude from the powers that be is that only non-related adults in positions of authority should get any say in communicating these hugely sensitive subjects to our teens.

Some organisations actively encourage children to avoid these discussions with their actual parents, sowing the seeds that it will inevitably lead to conflict. Massively dangerous waters for all parties.

@Reubenshat

Actually I remember Dr Christian Jenssen on morning tv show The Wright Stuff saying children should be shown porn videos in school. When callers were calling up to disagree he couldn’t hide his patronising and contempt for them and throwing around that he knew what he was talking about as he was a GP.

I’ve never liked him since I seen that show.

His idea is that we should show porn so they don’t try and watch the ‘wrong porn’

Our kids are really taking a battering at the moment especially in school. They go there to learn and it’s being used as a captive audience for people wanting to impress on them early sexualisation and gender bollocks.

Which TV doctor thinks underage girls having sex with middle aged men is like totally understandable if it's within the cultural context of another country?

The older I get the less "sex positive" I am tbh. Young girls (or 13 year old gay males for that matter) shouldn't be taught that anal sex is an activity they should be expected to participate in without even making them aware that it's dangerous, that it hurts, that pressing your vulva against someone's anus can give you a nasty uti.

Sex education should be far more concerned with consent, pregnancy and safety than fucking fisting. I'm nearly 40 and will happily live out the rest of my life without ever being fisted.

Agree with this. I don’t want every aspect of life learnt about at school. I don’t like that we are increasingly leaving everything to the state. And now we are going beyond reproduction to sex games and discussing in class putting objects into the anus. It’s so utterly wrong in every way. I hated sex ed as it was, I would of been scared off sex if I had to do this

I was just saying the same to dh. When has anal ever been normal? The anus is not designed for penetration and is should never be normalised for our children.

@BilboBercow

The older I get the less "sex positive" I am tbh. Young girls (or 13 year old gay males for that matter) shouldn't be taught that anal sex is an activity they should be expected to participate in without even making them aware that it's dangerous, that it hurts, that pressing your vulva against someone's anus can give you a nasty uti.

Sex education should be far more concerned with consent, pregnancy and safety than fucking fisting. I'm nearly 40 and will happily live out the rest of my life without ever being fisted.

Yep

I am very much in agreement with the point that this sounds very male centric but I also would not want my 13 year old son exposed to this (if I had one). Many 13 year olds are prepubescent and would be confused by feelings this might engender. It would be very different to the introduction to sex education I would want for a teenager of either sex. It could also increase susceptibility to exploitation for anyone. I also question why schools need to teach children how to engage in sex. Consent, contraception, consideration etc ,yes. The mechanics people can discover the way they always have.

@OldQueen1969

This is another thing that bothers me - because some parents don't necessarily do the best job of sex education at home or may not be as understanding of LGBT children, the attitude from the powers that be is that only non-related adults in positions of authority should get any say in communicating these hugely sensitive subjects to our teens.

Some organisations actively encourage children to avoid these discussions with their actual parents, sowing the seeds that it will inevitably lead to conflict. Massively dangerous waters for all parties.

Funny you should mention organisations encouraging children to hide things from their parents - Baroness Nicholson just tweeted this

twitter.com/baroness_nichol/status/1300420094040961026?s=21

Yikes.

Also am very worried that everyone’s response to criticism is to call posters on here ‘a prude’ and ‘intolerance’ or ‘homophobic
At the moment discussing issues of safeguarding regarding children seems to automatically get branded intolerant / hateful /prudish.
It's increasingly considered double hateful if it involves raising concerns about girls, consent, boundaries and bodily autonomy.

It's really quite worrying.

If a child told me that they were at home playing a sex games with an adult where they had to describe sex acts that can be performed based on which body parts come up on the dice, I'd be legally obliged to record a safeguarding concern and pass it to our safeguarding lead. But if you're an organisation with an agenda safeguarding apparently goes out the window.

@LolaSmiles

Also am very worried that everyone’s response to criticism is to call posters on here ‘a prude’ and ‘intolerance’ or ‘homophobic At the moment discussing issues of safeguarding regarding children seems to automatically get branded intolerant / hateful /prudish. It's increasingly considered double hateful if it involves raising concerns about girls, consent, boundaries and bodily autonomy.

It's really quite worrying.

If a child told me that they were at home playing a sex games with an adult where they had to describe sex acts that can be performed based on which body parts come up on the dice, I'd be legally obliged to record a safeguarding concern and pass it to our safeguarding lead. But if you're an organisation with an agenda safeguarding apparently goes out the window.

Your right

Agree Lola

Linning, I agree with you on some of the points you've made. I agree that sex education needs to cover safe sex practices and consent for gay and lesbian relationships as well as heterosexual ones, and that it's important to discuss with children the differences between what they might have seen (and might not have seen, as I think it's probably an incorrect assumption that ALL children have seen these things) in internet porn and real-life sex, and how many of the things they see in porn are unsafe and not reflective of real life.

However, I just can't agree that playing a game where children are describing sex acts in front of peers and teachers is acceptable, and being encouraged to dream up creative ways of combining body parts and objects. Real-life sex isn't a sort of 'what can I stuff where' bonanza, and a lesson like this runs a real risk of harming children in all the ways PPs have described.

I think that developing a sex education curriculum that meets the needs of all pupils at this particular point in time is incredibly challenging. Some children, as you point out, will have already viewed graphic pornography. Some, as a PP described, will only just be starting puberty. Some may have been sexually abused. Addressing the needs of all these pupils in one classroom requires a great amount of sensitivity and I think any curriculum should be designed by people who have specific expertise and experience. I don't think it's good enough to say 'ah well, they've seen worse.' They might not have done, and if they have, we need to be the counterfoil to that by basing sex education around safety, boundaries, and consent. This activity does none of those things.

You can have an inclusive sex education curriculum that addresses these important issues, but this is not how it should be done.

"Many heterosexual couples enjoy anal sex"

I really object to the normalisation of anal sex which has happened through porn. None of the men I've slept with over the age of 35 have wanted to do it and said they think it's grim. I think it's inaccurate to say many people enjoy it. Many of my female friends past and present have expressed an aversion to it.

There also seems to be an assumption that schools, parents and youth groups should be telling everything teenagers everything about adult sexuality.

Really only the basics should be covered, with a strong emphasis on boundaries, protection from abuse and making sure you are inform yourself about something before you participate in it.

It isn’t appropriate for adults to instruct teens about sexuality, because it weakens boundaries. It isn’t possible or useful for anyone to instruct anyone else in every possible sexual act, because there are too many and if you are old enough to participate you are also old enough to find out the information yourself.

It really is a slow creep of ideology isn't it. I am very much about the rational middle ground in most areas, but it's almost impossible to have proper conversations around these very important issues without being accused of bigotry and various "phobias". Which leads to fear and silence. And the actual kids get thrown under the bus. What an utter clusterfuck.....

I've been watching documentaries about TOTP in the 80s, when gender bending started to become more mainstream - but it had a kind of artistic, homespun feel, and a more innocent air of creativity and self-expression. I feel like Methuselah. My generation was pretty blessed in so many respects. Meh. I feel for today's kids. We "fuddy duddies" are not allowed to even try and explain which way is up these days because of a selfish minority with utterly dubious intentions.

Absolutely agree with everything you've said Lola. In any other situation, the activity in this lesson would absolutely be rightly described as abusive. I'm really very worried about the creeping in of ideas that there's some sort of bigotry at play if you object to the blurring of sexual boundaries between adults and children- and that's exactly what this lesson is. I would be horrified to be asked to teach this lesson. How can a teacher uphold the professional boundaries expected of them if they are suddenly being asked to discuss sex graphically with their students???

@LadyH846

"Many heterosexual couples enjoy anal sex"

I really object to the normalisation of anal sex which has happened through porn. None of the men I've slept with over the age of 35 have wanted to do it and said they think it's grim. I think it's inaccurate to say many people enjoy it. Many of my female friends past and present have expressed an aversion to it.

Yes, I think this a massive lie.

How about 'Many couples (and especially women) in "porn" are paid or coerced or trafficked or otherwise forced to pretend they enjoy anal sex; whereas in fact it can be very physically and mentally damaging, particularly for the recipient'.

If this dice game is so great and useful and empowering, and the Warwickshire education stuff was also so wonderful (the guide that included fisting, felching, and bukakke), then why is it so difficult to discover who wrote the bloody stuff!?

You would think they would want their name all over it, wouldn’t you?

@OldQueen1969

It really is a slow creep of ideology isn't it. I am very much about the rational middle ground in most areas, but it's almost impossible to have proper conversations around these very important issues without being accused of bigotry and various "phobias". Which leads to fear and silence. And the actual kids get thrown under the bus. What an utter clusterfuck.....

I've been watching documentaries about TOTP in the 80s, when gender bending started to become more mainstream - but it had a kind of artistic, homespun feel, and a more innocent air of creativity and self-expression. I feel like Methuselah. My generation was pretty blessed in so many respects. Meh. I feel for today's kids. We "fuddy duddies" are not allowed to even try and explain which way is up these days because of a selfish minority with utterly dubious intentions.

I came of age in the 90s and early 2000's. I thank my lucky stars that things weren't quite so fucked up as now.

Just had to google a word I hadn't come across before. EEw. Is all.

@LadyH846

I'm also glad my son is now 26 and that we have had an open enough relationship that he could talk to me about pretty much anything - if he chose to - as a teen. But back in 2009 / 10 when he would have been 15 /16 there wasn't this weird proliferation of obsession over public sexuality / gender expressions etc IIRC. I utterly fear for any potential grand-children that I may be fortunate enough to have ......

I'm nearly 40 and will happily live out the rest of my life without ever being fisted.
I'm having that on a badge
Yep, I came of age in the 90s too and I'm starting to think it was a bit of a blip in history, where girls didn't have to worry about their reputation, but female pleasure was something that was considered important in sex. You were allowed to have pubes and nobody came in your eye. And you could have anal if you wanted but it was definitely not expected. Happy days!

Is this 'dice game' actually intended for transgirls?

It's definitely the "expectation" aspect that is a huge problem here isn't it?

What happens between two informed consenting adults in the bedroom, however they discovered a particular source of enjoyment is their business. But nothing should be presented publicly as an obligation and people should have their wishes not to indulge in certain things respected, not have it rubbed in their faces until they feel they can't object because they are the ones with a problem.

Boundaries. So important.

From the Warwickshire 'Respect Yourself' website that got suspended (if pictures attach) that was aimed at 13-25yo

Who the hell thinks 13year olds need to learn about 'sunflowering'? I've never heard of it, and I'm no prude either.

metro.co.uk/2019/10/21/council-sex-website-teaches-children-bukakee-caught-masturbating-10955368/

A 12 year old that wrote to ask about their crush on their teacher was told you shouldn't try anything with the teacher, because she has a role of responsibility, could be charged, and it would affect the teachers marriage too

Nasty, nasty things going on here...