AIBU to think teachers should not be teaching sex games to children?

[2fallsagain]

Article In today's Times about teaching resources for RSE from the proud trust.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/government-gives-pupils-sex-advice-on-the-roll-of-a-dice-80hmsplws

In summary "The government has funded a tool kit written by the Proud Trust, an LGBT charity, which includes dice featuring words such as “anus”, “vulva”, “penis” and “hands and fingers”. Children are encouraged to throw the dice twice and talk about the sexual acts that can happen using the two body parts".

AIBU to think this is deeply inappropriate and any school using Proud Trust resources needs investigating? WTF is the government doing funding pornographic material for children?

Absolutely agree with you Miriel. I would hate to be asked to do something like this as an adult, I would have felt the same as a teenager but wouldn't have had the confidence to say no.

I am relieved to see that a high proportion of posters have an issue with this brand of sex education. As an adult I too would refuse to participate in this lesson but, at school, teenagers will feel unable to. Where is the relationships aspect of the education? i.e. building self confidence, confidence to say No, respecting other people's boundaries. I would imagine a game like this would either titillate, embarrass or disgust. As a teenage girl it would have left me with the impression that if I got into a relationship I would be expected to perform acts that were repellent to me. Boys might show bravado but I don't think all of them would be comfortable with this game. People have managed in the past to discover what they find physically pleasurable for themselves and haven't needed this sort of education. What has been needed is to learn about consent, consideration for others, contraception and STI prevention. I also agree that this sounds very male centric. Is it no longer fashionable for people to explore their sexuality in the context of close secure relationships. I would make a fuss if I had children in that age group involved in this lesson. I am also angry that money earmarked for girls issues is being spent on this crap. I also think there is a problem if your 13 year old is viewing hard porn, it will set things out of balance for them. Teachers are human beings too and can we count on the professionalism of every one of them teaching this?

@shreddednips

Absolutely agree with you Miriel. I would hate to be asked to do something like this as an adult, I would have felt the same as a teenager but wouldn't have had the confidence to say no.

Same here. If this was brought out at a dinner party I would feel shit and stressed and I would not play it. But I’m older and have a little more confidence than13 year old girls. I can just imagine what some of the kids are like towards the quieter shy girls. Making fun of them, using obscene language and expressions. It would take a tough experienced teacher to deal with this and I’m not sure that Is really their role.

All seems perverted to me. Let’s talk about sexual acts with teenagers. If I played this with my son and his friends I would be a pedophile but it’s ok at school? No thanks.

I've played Cards Against Humanity and I'm pretty broad minded but I've ended up with combinations I just couldn't force out of my mouth especially in a mixed age group setting - older teens etc.

Factual discussions about sex education lead by a qualified adult in an appropriate setting fine, plus the inclusion of boundaries, consent, relationships etc.

Discussions between two people about their own sex life also fine and dandy (usually part of the "wind up" along with boundary setting).

And maybe this is part of what is so disturbing about this light hearted approach to it all - talking about sex and all its potentially pleasurable variations can be part of stimulation, which in a classroom setting might inspire very uncomfortable feelings in the less "experienced" or worldly. In a mixed class of 13 year olds it really doesn't need to be spelled out in my opinion, and they should not be forced into these discussions.

In fact a lot of young people I knew who were a bit off the rails as kids were in actual fact being sexually abused by adults This is really sad, worrying but true. Many children who are more comfortable talking about sex acts are those who have been groomed by adults already, or being groomed.

This is so wrong, it is another ‘grooming’ - by people they should trust, teachers! Boundaries include being uncomfortable talking about porn type sex acts when children are young. It is a healthy boundary. Teachers unwittingly will be doing the same thing as abusers will do, get children to get used to ‘acts of sex’ and breaking down their natural boundaries.

It really is that serious in my book.

As an adult, if I were asked to participate in this game in a work or college environment, I'd refuse. Not because I'm homophobic or don't know that lots of people enjoy many of the possible combinations, but because it's a violation of my boundaries to discuss sex acts with people I haven't chosen to. Some people wouldn't care or would find it fun - it's not a violation of their boundaries. But it is of mine, and I'm allowed to have mine.

This ^. So are girls and boys allowed their boundaries. Only they’re obliged to join in by a someone in a position of authority. Fuck this. There are red flags everywhere for goodness sake

It's a real worry that there are posters on this thread claiming to be sex ed experts in schools yet displaying no respect for boundaries and safeguarding and show an open contempt for adults discussing these challenging issues.

I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and say that 'claiming' is the operative word.

And it's really disturbing that adults on this thread seem to think that because porn is so prevalent, children should be taught more about it. Not that children should be taught how to combat it.

One girl a day is raped in school. Girl children are attempting to opt out of femalehood at an unprecedented rate. Teaching materials in school have unaccountably ignored female anatomy.

Why? It doesn't count? Who on earth gets the point of writing educational material for children and so blisteringly obviously ignores all the girls? Over half the pupils.

And who the fuck thinks it's okay for 13-year-olds to talk to adults about how to stimulate themselves with objects in their anus, when, apart from anything else, for at least three more years it's completely illegal.

And who the fuck thinks it's okay for 13-year-olds to talk to adults about how to stimulate themselves with objects in their anus, when, apart from anything else, for at least three more years it's completely illegal.

This needs repeating!!!! I really am dumbfounded by anyone not seeing the problems here

@Datun @MillyMollyFarmer completely agree! The whole game is rotten, agenda driven and unsafe.

Yep. @Datun and @MillyMollyFarmer - another nail in this frankly depressing and inappropriate coffin.

I wonder how the school would respond if a young girl turned around and said “I don’t consent to this. I have no wish to discuss sex with you or my peers”? Would she be forced to take part or punished for refusing? Is the right to consent being completely striped from our children? If I was forced to listen to discussions of sexual positions, including inserting objects, the perpetrator would be arrested, but it’s ok if it’s in a school? That’s seriously messed up.

I have been out all day and just catching up. So glad to hear some sane and sensible voices on this thread.

Tanya Carter a spokeswoman for Safe Schools Alliance said. ‘We would be incredibly concerned if any school actually used the Proud Trusts ‘Sex Dice’ with children aged 13 plus. This ‘resource’ clearly breaches safeguarding. High quality relationship and sex education is an important part of keeping all children safe. Education must be factual, biologically & legally accurate. When delivering RSE teachers must be mindful that there will be children in the class who have been or are currently being sexually abused or exploited and that the lessons will be triggering for them, especially if they haven’t ever disclosed their abuse. It is shocking that this was funded with money from the tampon tax, this gives the impression that it is sanctioned by the government. The tampon tax should be used to educate girls on their rights - not prematurely sexualise them. It is important that schools widely consult with parents & staff to avoid inappropriate materials such as this slipping through the net. Parents should ask to see materials if they haven’t been consulted by schools

I completely agree with Tanya.

This is a harmful resource - I’m a DSLO and can’t in any way square this with any of my training.

Illustration:

If a yr8 came into school and said that their parent/carer had played a dice game where they paired up body parts and said how you’d have sex using them... Then the yr 8 gave some examples and said they’d felt really uncomfortable and that they’d had to talk about inserting objects into their bottom. And that the grown ups had given some ideas too.

Do the supporters of this “resource” think as DSLO I should ignore this?

Because I wouldn’t. It would be an enormous concern.

There's some really good points made on this thread and I absolutely agree with you Miriel.

Two things came to mind reading this;
1, I was thinking about the daft sex dice you can get at Ann Summers etc, but when I had a look on their website, the games they sell are actually put an emphasis on communication, mutual pleasure and boundaries.
Its a bit of an eyeopener when an actual sex toy is more relationship focused than a sex education tool.

2, Why is it down to schools to teach children how to engage in sex. They should add to the education we as parents share about STD's pregnancy, boundaries and consent, but they can learn the mechanics the way we all do.

I really don't like the idea that children who feel uncomfortable with these lessons are shamed or disregarded. It makes me feel quite sick actually.

I had another thought too... God menopause brain is a real thing!

I was recently listening to a podcast about how rehabilitation and receidivism amongst sex offenders. Many sex offenders said that one method of treatment was to discuss their sexual urges and what turned them on. They said it made them worse and made them more preoccupied with sex / assult than other forms of rehabilitation and I see a lot of parallels with this.

Its interesting the people who say "well they're seeing / doing it anyway" like this is going to be a good thing for them. Don't they understand how grooming and coercion work?

Intetestingly, and relevantly, my 13 year old DD was not allowed to consent to her own HPV jab because she was thirteen.

I felt it was important that she gave informed consent so we discussed it at home and she signed her form.

On the day, the school rang me. Oh no, this will never, never do. She's only 13 years old! She needs parental consent! The sky is falling!

That was a safe, tested, medically approved jab.

This dice game bollox is unsafe, untested and non-medically approved.

And neither parents nor children give informed consent; not does there appear to be any safeguarding mechanism for them to do so.

I'd hate to be a foster carer dealing with this creepy crap.

LilianBland I remember when I was at school knowing that the practice-puttibg-a-condom-on-a-plastic-penis lesson was coming at some point, and feeling full of dread. I didn't want to practice. I didn't need to practice because I certainly was not planning to have any sex. Indeed, it was not even legal for anyone to be having it with me, had I wanted to. I knew that my teacher (our head of year, a real "you can tell me about anything" type) would try to insist, and I would be likely to get in trouble for refusing. In the end, I had an orthodontic appointment and fortuitously missed the lesson. Blessed relief!

I can't imagine how awful it would have been to have to discuss sex dice combinations.

Some years ago I used to work in a school that had a lot of students from conservative religious backgrounds (not all the same religion) and I can only imagine how horrified their families would be if this had been taught then. I can see many being withdrawn from sex ed who perhaps otherwise wouldn't have been.

I take comfort from this because my dd is in an all girls school with a significant proportion of Muslim girls from conservative families so I know this guidance would never see the light of day there. This brings up questions of its own though, why can't we demand the same for our children and expect to be listened to? I'm confess to being so very glad they're there to keep this out. Obviously though this doesn't help the multiple other students in mixed sex schools being thrown to the wolves and having to deal with these sinister materials.

Meh, I don't see the problem, unfortunately with internet, before I was even 13, I had already seen porn and whatever else parents would be horrified to find out kids my age looked up online. Most of my fellow friends learned that way (in France you do have sex ed from 11 to pretty much 18) and porn is such a distorted version of sex that doesn't even showcase safe-sex practises that I would have absolutely preferred sex to be described in class including ways to make those practises safe (turns out I am gay and lesbian sex was not mention once, let alone safe-sex for lesbians which is unfortunate because most lesbians don't practise safe-sex as a result as likely lack of knowledge and lack of resources to keep them/us properly safe.)

It's unfortunate but porn is a few click away and most teens will check it out at some point, I would much rather they also get told about the technicality of it and how to keep whatever practises they want to try safe and hygienic rather than not.

It's unfortunate but porn is a few click away

So the way to deal with the damaging impact of the ubiquity of porn is to force kids at school to discuss anal penetration with objects? Great idea. Not.

Linning I think you have missed the point of the thread.

unfortunately with internet, before I was even 13, I had already seen porn and whatever else parents would be horrified to find out kids my age looked up online

My child didn’t have unsupervised access at that age to the internet.

You seem to have missed the main discussion points of the thread Linning as we focused a lot on the fact this game focuses on Male pleasure so it’s not even applicable to lesbians very much. Perhaps you should read the thread a bit

I know Linning but I think that is missing the point.
It's like saying "meh. Kids are doing drugs all the time. I started snorting coke at 13. So lets teach them that everyone is doing it, how to tell if your scag is pure, where to get clean needles, how to grow skunk and how best to negotiate with your local weed dealer"..
They DO teach about drugs in school, because they recognise SOME children will be vulnerable to drug abuse, and they can be quite frank about it all, but it's done from a perspective of responsibility to children i.e looking at peer pressure, what to do if a friend is using drugs, what to say if you are offered drugs etc.
So, yes, some children will have seen porn, but this "game" is completely normalising that, and is adults getting children to discuss very graphic sexual practices.
Some of those children will have seen porn. some may be already being abused, some may have no earthly idea about any of it and are happy day dreaming about snogging the boy next door.
But wherever those children sit on the spectrum of experience they all deserve protection from grooming, which this most certainly is.

Why is it down to schools to teach children how to engage in sex. They should add to the education we as parents share about STD's pregnancy, boundaries and consent, but they can learn the mechanics the way we all do

Agree with this. I don’t want every aspect of life learnt about at school. I don’t like that we are increasingly leaving everything to the state. And now we are going beyond reproduction to sex games and discussing in class putting objects into the anus. It’s so utterly wrong in every way. I hated sex ed as it was, I would of been scared off sex if I had to do this.

Actually I remember Dr Christian Jenssen on morning tv show The Wright Stuff saying children should be shown porn videos in school. When callers were calling up to disagree he couldn’t hide his patronising and contempt for them and throwing around that he knew what he was talking about as he was a GP.

I’ve never liked him since I seen that show.

His idea is that we should show porn so they don’t try and watch the ‘wrong porn’

Our kids are really taking a battering at the moment especially in school. They go there to learn and it’s being used as a captive audience for people wanting to impress on them early sexualisation and gender bollocks.