AIBU to think teachers should not be teaching sex games to children?

[2fallsagain]

Article In today's Times about teaching resources for RSE from the proud trust.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/government-gives-pupils-sex-advice-on-the-roll-of-a-dice-80hmsplws

In summary "The government has funded a tool kit written by the Proud Trust, an LGBT charity, which includes dice featuring words such as “anus”, “vulva”, “penis” and “hands and fingers”. Children are encouraged to throw the dice twice and talk about the sexual acts that can happen using the two body parts".

AIBU to think this is deeply inappropriate and any school using Proud Trust resources needs investigating? WTF is the government doing funding pornographic material for children?

And actually as someone with a son I don't want him being given these expectations that sex will focus around himself if he chooses to have sex with a female.

@shreddednips

I can't believe that this could ever be considered an appropriate way to teach children about sexual relationships. I do have experience of teaching sex Ed, although only up to year 6. Of course anal sex needs to be discussed as it is a normal part of many people's sex lives, gay or straight- not to mention that children need to know that they can say no to it, and also should never be applying pressure to anyone else. This isn't the way to teach it though. It's not an appropriate way to teach about penis in vagina sex or any other kind of sex either.

This game is designed to get children graphically and creatively describing sex acts to each other and their teachers. I am very concerned about the motivations of the people who designed it- the erosion of normal boundaries between children and adults is a massive problem here. It wouldn't surprise me if someone, somewhere was getting off on the idea of teenagers describing sex acts graphically to their teachers. It is a huge safeguarding concern. Not to mention the fact that many children will find this activity triggering if they've been abused or just plain embarrassing. It could lead to bullying of particular children over what they said. Where in the lesson plan is it made clear to children that they have the right to say no, not just to any sex act they're uncomfortable with but also to taking part in this activity? It's all very well saying that teachers know already to include consent in any sex Ed lesson, but it is an absolute cornerstone of responsible sex education- so why is it not explicitly mentioned in the plan? This raises red flags to me. It's an activity geared up to break down boundaries that are there for good reasons, and to present sex as a sort of free for all, where anything goes. Of course sex is meant to be fun and enjoyable, but sometimes it isn't. Sometimes it can be scary and painful, and it's difficult for children to know where their boundaries lie if it's been presented to them as a game.

Objecting to this doesn't make anyone a prude. I'm genuinely alarmed that people are being accused of this in response to something that, quite frankly, is so far over the line of acceptable that it's unbelievable.

Well said. It is an example of the total obliteration of normal boundaries. As you say, what is the motive of the lobby's pushing this to kids in school?

Sex ed being too biological, whatever the hell next?

If that person is genuine, these clowns need to step the hell back and let the grown ups take charge.

There are some good follow up questions to Amelia’s statement but no response as yet. My question was deleted, presumably too biological!

The Proud Trust are a campaigning organisation.

They are not evidence based for any kind of sex education. They are not professionals who have been trained in evidence based interventions in schools. They are not a public sector organization working within a robust framework of other relevant professional bodies.

They are not fit to make sex education materials. They are to campaign, nothing else.

Porn has now become weaponised against women and part of the free market - this could be better policed and it isn't. Yes, there will always be some tech savvy kids who will beat parental controls, but surely better to first of all ensure that it is made clear to kids that porn is not real life sex and emotions are involved? This game doesn't help with that argument nor that aspect of teaching about healthy relationships, boundaries and consent. It's dehumanising, phallocentric, and trivialises something that has the potential to be utterly traumatic to some children.

So true. I did a lot of research to make sure porn is not accessible in my house (at router level) and have disabled 4 g on phones. As I said, things get shown by other kids, but that is where parents need to be able to be open and talk to their children about the difference between porn (which is a business) and sex.
And please, lets not assume that boys would be comfortable with any of this grooming crap either (someone said upthread that boys would use this "game" to humiliate the girls). Some might, but lots of 13 year old boys are not even in puberty yet and would be mortified by this, and just as scared as the girls.
I have teens and it's a bit of a myth that they are all blase and happily watching hardcore porn regularly from 11. Plenty of them are really not.
Sex ed should start with consent, first and foremost. It should start with the birds and the bees, reproduction, but also talk extensively about relationships, respect, kindness and boundaries. Like, over and over-BOUNDARIES. Both boys and girls often feel rushed and pressured as it is. They are relieved when you tell them that they don't have to do anything if they don't want to.
FGS, I most of the teen boys I know even at 14 haven't kissed a girl yet (and they worry about whether their kissing technique will be up to scratch just like girls do!) They don't need a fucking ADULT giving them a manual of activities, especially when they can't exactly get up, say "I am not comfortable hearing this" and walk out.Well. They could, and I would be the biggest fan of any Year 8 that did, but we all know they won't feel that they can.
I would like to know who benefits by normalising this stuff for children, I really would.

Yeah mine will be off that day...

The obsession to make our children as adult as possible is weird..

Charities can feed in their surveys or concerns to professionals working nationally on educational school material. They can be part of a voice and can feed in their ‘survey’s - which would then be part of a whole picture but which is led by safeguarding, health and educational professionals with experience of leading this area.

However they should not be the ones putting anything directly into schools, they should be creating materials, they should not be consultants to advise schools.

The main problem is that sex education should not be something anyone can just make up and put directly into schools.

That this has been let directly into schools show that there is something very wrong with the system.

By Y11 they are comparing notes on anal sex, I think many parents are deluded tbh

Some might be but I think you’re completely overstating the reality.

Also am very worried that everyone’s response to criticism is to call posters on here ‘a prude’ and ‘intolerance’ or ‘homophobic’.

That is exactly what a child may feel being presented with this ‘game’ and has their own issue with it. That they will be called a prude, intolerance, or homophobic or whatever.

I'm not deluded at all. I remember kids talking about spit roasting and all sorts at school in year 9/10. But kids grossing other kids out in the playground (even if they have done things in real life) is a world away from teachers, adults in positions pf responsibility basically sanctioning graphic sex acts between children and asking children to describe them!
In fact a lot of young people I knew who were a bit off the rails as kids were in actual fact being sexually abused by adults (girls of 14 in "relationships" with 25 year old men for example).
Ther last thing children who are currently being abused need is trusted adults telling them heeeyyy it's all fiiine.

Might be worth mentioning in case some don't know- those using adult site blockers, check if they allow Reddit. They host a shit tonne of degrading, nasty porn subs. I dread to think how much revenge porn is on there.

Some blockers don't consider Reddit to be an adult site, so it can slip through some and the porn subs are still accessible.

Well yeah Amelia from proud trust

Why are children in a classroom having to explain to other children and teachers what they would do with a penis and an anus. Depending on which throw of the dice you got

And why Amelia are breasts and nipples not mentioned in this dice game

Where the hell has safeguarding gone in schools

I have to take issue with those who think showing children images of FGM is the right way to teach this. It really isn't. And that's before you tackle the problem of conflating FGM with a medical condition.

Again huge great 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 🚩🚩🚩abound.

Where the hell has safeguarding gone in schools

littlebrown

Good question. It's actually very disturbing.

@lakesidesummer

This is by men for men. And yes I have taught sex ed. I've also worked with dc who have been sexually abused. I believe in talking to dc about the porn they will see on the Internet and the pressures they will feel to perform sexually in a number of different settings. I don't think this game does any of those things. It is actively harmful to young women as it discounts sexual experiences centered around them entirely.

Agree.

And I've taught sex Ed, including to pupils with SN.

It’s a standard tactic to call anyone who objects to a lot of the new RSE material “homophobic”. Just look at what happened with the parents who objected to the “No Outsiders” programme in Birmingham and the surrounded areas. They were painted as religiously motivated homophobes.

Now no doubt some of the parents were protesting the inclusion of materials about gay/lesbian material but there was a lot of disturbing stuff in that programme (which is still in use), not to mention the fact that it tells blatant lies about the Equality Act (omitting “sex” and replacing it with “gender/gender ID”) and telling biological untruths such as children being born in the wrong body and humans being able to change their sex.

But people fear being labelled a bigot and so they keep their mouths shut.

@shreddednips

Thanks Lady H846. I can't understand the logic of people saying 'oh, they've seen worse in porn'. Yes, many will have done. Just because children now have access to porn doesn't mean that we should just throw away the idea of sexual boundaries altogether by getting children describing sex acts to adults- if they were doing this in any other setting (for example, an adult outside school attempting to get a 14 year old to engage in sex chat), we all know what that would be considered. It protects children to have certain boundaries that we never cross. This is one of them. If we're saying it's ok to describe how to, for example, use an object in someone's vagina, to their teacher, I think that could have really, really dangerous consequences outside the classroom.

I'm all for sex education that explains sex for pleasure and covers a diverse range of sexual practices (including explanations around safety and being able to say no to anything at any time), but I just don't see how this lesson could possibly be taught without the potential for harm, or a child that didn't want to consent feeling pressured into participating.

So many good posts and this is one of them. I'm another poster who's taught SRE in schools to teenagers. It's a real worry that there are posters on this thread claiming to be sex ed experts in schools yet displaying no respect for boundaries and safeguarding and show an open contempt for adults discussing these challenging issues. Frankly teachers like this are regularly removed from SRE teaching as their profound self absorption, lack of awareness of the needs of different children / groups means that they are insensitive and frankly unpopular with many children as their zeal and lack of insight leaves many teenagers feeling unsafe in SRE lessons - the last thing you need in an SRE teacher.

Absolutely CaveMum. There's a very common theme.

Yes, IfNotNow123. I also have teens, a 13 year old (only just at the very beginning of puberty) and a 15 year old. Neither have been on a date or kissed a boy , the younger is still very much a young girl and the older is romantic and literary. The thought of an adult talking to them about sex acts like this is grim , and really, why ? Frankly I hope they remain ignorant of porn and how women are portrayed for as long as possible. I have never watched porn, nor has Dh. I am in my fifties, anal was definitely not something that boyfriends were suggesting to my age group generally. Teaching young people how you can get pregnant is sensible, getting kids talking about specific sex acts is just creepy. Teaching emotional maturity, how to spot gaslighting and coercion, that would be sensible, but this ? It is just horrible, and totally unnecessary.
There are many romantic teenage boys too, it isn’t just girls. It all smacks of jaded porn sick adults, jealous of youth, beauty, innocence, and wanting to corrupt it.

Is there a petition set up against this teaching aid? There should be.

@LadyH846

Can someone please answer: are they actually going to use this to teach kids? or is it just a suggestion at the moment? I can't see the article it's behind a paywall.

If they're going to use it, I despair of our next generation. If they grow up with healthy attitudes towards sex it'll be despite shit like this.

Yes. The proud trust's sex Ed materials are in lots of schools. Ssauk were alerted to this game by teachers and parents.

As an adult, if I were asked to participate in this game in a work or college environment, I'd refuse. Not because I'm homophobic or don't know that lots of people enjoy many of the possible combinations, but because it's a violation of my boundaries to discuss sex acts with people I haven't chosen to. Some people wouldn't care or would find it fun - it's not a violation of their boundaries. But it is of mine, and I'm allowed to have mine.

So are 13 year old girls at school, and they don't have the option of saying they find it uncomfortable or inappropriate and walking out of the classroom. If 13 year olds are seeing this stuff in porn, that's an argument for age verification on porn sites or better parental controls on computers, not for discussions in school about niche sexual practices.

Some years ago I used to work in a school that had a lot of students from conservative religious backgrounds (not all the same religion) and I can only imagine how horrified their families would be if this had been taught then. I can see many being withdrawn from sex ed who perhaps otherwise wouldn't have been.

Good God! YANBU!