AIBU to think teachers should not be teaching sex games to children?

[2fallsagain]

Article In today's Times about teaching resources for RSE from the proud trust.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/government-gives-pupils-sex-advice-on-the-roll-of-a-dice-80hmsplws

In summary "The government has funded a tool kit written by the Proud Trust, an LGBT charity, which includes dice featuring words such as “anus”, “vulva”, “penis” and “hands and fingers”. Children are encouraged to throw the dice twice and talk about the sexual acts that can happen using the two body parts".

AIBU to think this is deeply inappropriate and any school using Proud Trust resources needs investigating? WTF is the government doing funding pornographic material for children?

‘
If children have been exposed to hardcore porn by the time they have got to secondary / high school, that's a massive failure on the part of the adults around them. And should be investigated.’

Pornhub. Google it. It’s depressing but it’s like standing at a cracked dam trying to hold back the flood water single handedly. As far as I know my 10 year old hasn’t seen anything yet, tho he doesn’t have a phone but there seems to be incident after incident in his school grp - someone using a dads phone, new iPad in the house that hadn’t had the parental block added yet, a couple of curious boys googling sex on a phone in a house where the security block were in the House devices but not the router itself. A kid using a signal at a local coffee shop to watch funny stuff on YouTube and something horrible popping up. An older brother thinking it would be funny to show the younger kids a video he’d been sent.
It goes on.

Porn used to be more difficult to access pre-internet. Dad's badly hidden Playboy or discarded sticky mags in the woods were about it for the average pre-teen / teen.

Porn has now become weaponised against women and part of the free market - this could be better policed and it isn't. Yes, there will always be some tech savvy kids who will beat parental controls, but surely better to first of all ensure that it is made clear to kids that porn is not real life sex and emotions are involved? This game doesn't help with that argument nor that aspect of teaching about healthy relationships, boundaries and consent. It's dehumanising, phallocentric, and trivialises something that has the potential to be utterly traumatic to some children.

‘n my city, it was recently estimated that 95% of young women and girls under 25 from the diaspora which culturally practises FGM have undergone some kind of mutilation. Children from this diaspora form close to 50% of my school community, and many others in the city, so we must absolutely make sure that all students are represented when we teach SRE.’

You can represent people without forcing other girls to look at photos of mutilated vulvas.

If you have to send two forms of legit /photo ID to access money won on gambling sites, why can't porn sites demand the same?

But this isn't a sex game. It is a tool for starting conversations. They aren't rolling the dice the doing the sex acts.

@YouWereGr8InLittleMenstruators

LadyH846, as I have expressed upthread, I am also very sceptical of this 'teaching aid', but I just want to say that if you are going to have representations of genitalia, then there definitely needs to be representations of the genitals of females who have undergone FGM. In my city, it was recently estimated that 95% of young women and girls under 25 from the diaspora which culturally practises FGM have undergone some kind of mutilation. Children from this diaspora form close to 50% of my school community, and many others in the city, so we must absolutely make sure that all students are represented when we teach SRE.

Sorry but I don't agree. If you do this, you have to explain to kids why it is happening which is downright traumatic. No one needs to see a sewn up vulva. Sorry.

I'm furious that money that should have been spent to help women and girls has instead been spent on this 'game' by males, for males

im also sad that some women have been so brain-washed that they cant even see that.
mens pleasure above all else, eh ladies. no wonder they say the younger generations have less sex.

But this isn't a sex game. It is a tool for starting conversations. They aren't rolling the dice the doing the sex acts.

It is based on an adult sex game and completely centres male bodies, desires and pleasure out of the context of emotions, relationships and consent. This is supposed to be used in groups of mixed sex 11-16 yr olds who will be expected to "overcome their prudish discomfort" and participate.

This has been produced with money supposed to be spent on women and girls and has no evidence base behind it.

Again, where is the matching materials which prioritises the desires and preferences of girls?

I can't believe that this could ever be considered an appropriate way to teach children about sexual relationships. I do have experience of teaching sex Ed, although only up to year 6. Of course anal sex needs to be discussed as it is a normal part of many people's sex lives, gay or straight- not to mention that children need to know that they can say no to it, and also should never be applying pressure to anyone else. This isn't the way to teach it though. It's not an appropriate way to teach about penis in vagina sex or any other kind of sex either.

This game is designed to get children graphically and creatively describing sex acts to each other and their teachers. I am very concerned about the motivations of the people who designed it- the erosion of normal boundaries between children and adults is a massive problem here. It wouldn't surprise me if someone, somewhere was getting off on the idea of teenagers describing sex acts graphically to their teachers. It is a huge safeguarding concern. Not to mention the fact that many children will find this activity triggering if they've been abused or just plain embarrassing. It could lead to bullying of particular children over what they said. Where in the lesson plan is it made clear to children that they have the right to say no, not just to any sex act they're uncomfortable with but also to taking part in this activity? It's all very well saying that teachers know already to include consent in any sex Ed lesson, but it is an absolute cornerstone of responsible sex education- so why is it not explicitly mentioned in the plan? This raises red flags to me. It's an activity geared up to break down boundaries that are there for good reasons, and to present sex as a sort of free for all, where anything goes. Of course sex is meant to be fun and enjoyable, but sometimes it isn't. Sometimes it can be scary and painful, and it's difficult for children to know where their boundaries lie if it's been presented to them as a game.

Objecting to this doesn't make anyone a prude. I'm genuinely alarmed that people are being accused of this in response to something that, quite frankly, is so far over the line of acceptable that it's unbelievable.

@shreddednips

I can't believe that this could ever be considered an appropriate way to teach children about sexual relationships. I do have experience of teaching sex Ed, although only up to year 6. Of course anal sex needs to be discussed as it is a normal part of many people's sex lives, gay or straight- not to mention that children need to know that they can say no to it, and also should never be applying pressure to anyone else. This isn't the way to teach it though. It's not an appropriate way to teach about penis in vagina sex or any other kind of sex either.

This game is designed to get children graphically and creatively describing sex acts to each other and their teachers. I am very concerned about the motivations of the people who designed it- the erosion of normal boundaries between children and adults is a massive problem here. It wouldn't surprise me if someone, somewhere was getting off on the idea of teenagers describing sex acts graphically to their teachers. It is a huge safeguarding concern. Not to mention the fact that many children will find this activity triggering if they've been abused or just plain embarrassing. It could lead to bullying of particular children over what they said. Where in the lesson plan is it made clear to children that they have the right to say no, not just to any sex act they're uncomfortable with but also to taking part in this activity? It's all very well saying that teachers know already to include consent in any sex Ed lesson, but it is an absolute cornerstone of responsible sex education- so why is it not explicitly mentioned in the plan? This raises red flags to me. It's an activity geared up to break down boundaries that are there for good reasons, and to present sex as a sort of free for all, where anything goes. Of course sex is meant to be fun and enjoyable, but sometimes it isn't. Sometimes it can be scary and painful, and it's difficult for children to know where their boundaries lie if it's been presented to them as a game.

Objecting to this doesn't make anyone a prude. I'm genuinely alarmed that people are being accused of this in response to something that, quite frankly, is so far over the line of acceptable that it's unbelievable.

Well said.

@shreddednips

Perfectly put.

I am guessing that if the dice doesn't include 'clitoris' that it wasn't designed by lesbians? I hope young gay women have other sources of information about sex.

Any tool can be well-used or mis-used depending on whose hands it's in. If parents don't trust the teachers to have sensible discussions about sex then they will have to educate their children themselves.

I hope young gay women have other sources of information about sex

Well they're was thatbgery informative article in health line magazine that told lesbians what to do with their partners who have penises

Thanks Lady H846. I can't understand the logic of people saying 'oh, they've seen worse in porn'. Yes, many will have done. Just because children now have access to porn doesn't mean that we should just throw away the idea of sexual boundaries altogether by getting children describing sex acts to adults- if they were doing this in any other setting (for example, an adult outside school attempting to get a 14 year old to engage in sex chat), we all know what that would be considered. It protects children to have certain boundaries that we never cross. This is one of them. If we're saying it's ok to describe how to, for example, use an object in someone's vagina, to their teacher, I think that could have really, really dangerous consequences outside the classroom.

I'm all for sex education that explains sex for pleasure and covers a diverse range of sexual practices (including explanations around safety and being able to say no to anything at any time), but I just don't see how this lesson could possibly be taught without the potential for harm, or a child that didn't want to consent feeling pressured into participating.

Just for info, someone called Amelia Lee who says she is from the Proud Trust who developed this kit has just put this statement in the comments, it’s very bland and nothing to see here, let’s just reassure everyone blah blah.

‘Hello, I am from the Proud Trust and we have not been contacted for comment. This is our statement: The Proud Trust is the UK's leading charity supporting LGBT+ young people. Both anecdotal and academic evidence demonstrates that young people, LGBT+ and otherwise, feel that existing relationships and sex education is too little, too late and too biological.
The Proud Trust develops a range of resources and fact sheets along with the young people we work with, to adequately reflect their experiences of the world and the knowledge they lack. We do so, informed by the United Nations Convention on the Rights of The Child and the World Health Organization's commitment to sexual health globally, and utilise an approach that is stage-appropriate, needs-led and rights-based.
From 2020 the governments of the nations of the United Kingdom and Ireland are all working towards introducing LGBT-inclusive Relationships and Sex Education in schools. We will continue to work alongside partners and stakeholders in the lives of young people, these include parents and families, schools and colleges, health and care services and across the voluntary, community, faith and social enterprise sector.’

Well they're was thatbgery informative article in health line magazine that told lesbians what to do with their partners who have penises

Aye, and young lesbians being forced into making numerous grovelling apology videos on social media for the heinous crime of saying they're not interested in dick. I haven't seen any LGBT orgs condemn this, either.

I'd rather the tampon tax be spent helping them enforce boundaries and consent. Help women and girls like it's supposed to.

Aye, and young lesbians being forced into making numerous grovelling apology videos on social media for the heinous crime of saying they're not interested in dick. I haven't seen any LGBT orgs condemn this, either

Some have even gone to the trouble of re defining the word homosexual to make doubly sure that lesbians know that their preference for no penis is old fasjolmed and bigoted.

Imagine an lgbt group that no longer recognises same sex attraction...

too biological

Oh, that pesky science again. We don't want that spoiling the mood, eh?!

“Any tool can be well-used or mis-used depending on whose hands it's in. If parents don't trust the teachers to have sensible discussions about sex then they will have to educate their children themselves.”

Perhaps as parents we already educate our children about sex. I really don’t need other adults telling my 13 year old daughter that anal sex Is standard etc etc etc.

Perhaps as parents we already educate our children about sex. I really don’t need other adults telling my 13 year old daughter that anal sex Is standard etc etc etc.

By Y11 they are comparing notes on anal sex, I think many parents are deluded tbh.

Too biological?

What are these idiots on? This reinforces the fact that these people are not fit to be designing materials to teach kids sex ed.

That statement doesn't really address the problem in my opinion. It's rather misleading because it suggests that the objection is to sex education that includes LGBT people, which could imply that if you have a problem with this lesson, you're a bigot. It isn't. The objection is to the nature of the activity.

The more I think about it, the more concerned I am that some people seem to think that if you don't think this is ok, you're intolerant. What on earth does it open the door to?

I can't imagine being a current victim of CSA or CSE and having to do this at school.

This is by men for men.
And yes I have taught sex ed.
I've also worked with dc who have been sexually abused.
I believe in talking to dc about the porn they will see on the Internet and the pressures they will feel to perform sexually in a number of different settings.
I don't think this game does any of those things.
It is actively harmful to young women as it discounts sexual experiences centered around them entirely.