AIBU to think teachers should not be teaching sex games to children?

[2fallsagain]

Article In today's Times about teaching resources for RSE from the proud trust.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/government-gives-pupils-sex-advice-on-the-roll-of-a-dice-80hmsplws

In summary "The government has funded a tool kit written by the Proud Trust, an LGBT charity, which includes dice featuring words such as “anus”, “vulva”, “penis” and “hands and fingers”. Children are encouraged to throw the dice twice and talk about the sexual acts that can happen using the two body parts".

AIBU to think this is deeply inappropriate and any school using Proud Trust resources needs investigating? WTF is the government doing funding pornographic material for children?

I think this is pretty unhealthy. Kids should be taught that these are private matters

My child I expect, would take this literally and like I said, would presume this was what boys expected of her. She would likely become quite distressed at the thought in actual fact

I find it very difficult to imagine that this reaction has not been anticipated. So the conclusion is that the proponents of this material do not care if it distresses sensitive children and blurs boundaries. If it makes girls less able to refuse aggressive
sexual demands. Which have been promoted and normalised at school. Either that, or its proponents are so clueless, they have failed to consider its obvious downsides and potential for unintended consequences. I suspect the former. This seems too deliberate to be accidental.

Personally I have reservations about organisations trying to muscle in on SRE with gamification. I'm also concerned that games like that are only fun for some students and the other students are expected to sit through their peers discussing sex in quite a graphic way for laughs. One unintended consequence is that the main takeaway from the lesson is 'eveyone else knows about... And I don't' rather than 'consent, boundaries and healthy relationships'.

Sex education needs to be matter of fact and delivered by people who know what they're doing, not be delivered by well meaning, often undertrained (in this area) teachers unquestioningly using whatever materials a lobby group has produced with their own agenda in mind.

I would have hated having to sit through a lesson liken this at aged 13. Schools seem obsessed with pushing this onto our kids.

@Clymene - once turned around to find a 5 year old sticking a pencil into the anus of another 5 year old who suddenly had his pants around his ankles, when I taught English overseas. But I think that particular event couldn't have been avoided even with sex ed.

Almost £100k of launch funding fot this was funded by money from the Tampon Tax find, which should be going towards teaching safe sex, mutual respect etc , not the shit that this "game" is promoting.

[quote beargrass]According to S Charlesworth, this "game" also contains the following:

“Several images appear to be illustrations of a DSD, a disorder of sexual development, a very rare medical condition in which external genitalia is ambiguous…[there] is the drawing showing a partially stitched vulva, the stitching over the clitoris area, the result of female genital mutilation.”

And:

Session 3 asks What Is Your Normal? Various activities are suggested and the group is asked to place them on a quadrant of normal, harmful, not normal and safe. Among the activities are “Having anal sex”, “Receiving a gift from someone in exchange for sex” and “Watching pornography”. The booklet advises using ‘usual’ and ‘unusual’ or ‘common’ and ‘uncommon’ instead of the more value laden ‘normal.’ Suggested supplementary questions about anal sex are “Is this usual? Who can have anal sex? Is this activity pleasurable? What might you need to consider if having, or thinking about having, anal sex?””

And:

“Next the class is shown 15 black and white drawings of male and female genitalia and asked which ones “you are likely to see in (a) textbooks (b) pornography (c) a doctor’s surgery”.”

Anyone who knows the statutory safeguarding guidance, knows that the above says 🚩 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩

[[https://www.transgendertrend.com/proud-trust-nothing-proud]]/[/quote]
This is horrendous. Why do they also include diagrams of female genital mutilation? Are they trying to traumatise kids?

I'm absolutely horrified.

[quote beargrass]According to S Charlesworth, this "game" also contains the following:

“Several images appear to be illustrations of a DSD, a disorder of sexual development, a very rare medical condition in which external genitalia is ambiguous…[there] is the drawing showing a partially stitched vulva, the stitching over the clitoris area, the result of female genital mutilation.”

And:

Session 3 asks What Is Your Normal? Various activities are suggested and the group is asked to place them on a quadrant of normal, harmful, not normal and safe. Among the activities are “Having anal sex”, “Receiving a gift from someone in exchange for sex” and “Watching pornography”. The booklet advises using ‘usual’ and ‘unusual’ or ‘common’ and ‘uncommon’ instead of the more value laden ‘normal.’ Suggested supplementary questions about anal sex are “Is this usual? Who can have anal sex? Is this activity pleasurable? What might you need to consider if having, or thinking about having, anal sex?””

And:

“Next the class is shown 15 black and white drawings of male and female genitalia and asked which ones “you are likely to see in (a) textbooks (b) pornography (c) a doctor’s surgery”.”

Anyone who knows the statutory safeguarding guidance, knows that the above says 🚩 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩

[[https://www.transgendertrend.com/proud-trust-nothing-proud]]/[/quote]
This is utterly frickin insane.

Wikipedia is surprisingly comprehensive regarding anal sex, historically, statistically, culturally and practically.

Anal sex in porn requires a fair bit of preparation. Not eating solids for a few days before filming, enemas etc.

Having a spontaneous bash at it without all the information can lead to pain and humiliation for the receiver.

I can't see how you can get this information across to a class of 13 year olds in an appropriate manner once the subject has been broached tbh.

Sheesh, talk about opening a can of worms......

(@Clymene- once turned around to find a 5 year old sticking a pencil into the anus of another 5 year old who suddenly had his pants around his ankles, when I taught English overseas. But I think that particular event couldn't have been avoided even with sex ed

Sounds like Japan. They even have a "hilarious" prank like (young boys) love to play on other boys, they yell "kancho!" and stick fingers up the other boys butt hole. My husband said they used to do it when he was a kid there too over 40 years ago :( )

Do people realise that by the time your children get to high school they will have encountered hard core porn? Teaching them about what sex entails and how pleasure is derived may go some way to balance out the version of sex/porn they have already encountered.

Isn't having sex as a subject titillating enough to keep students interested without needing something like this?

But that isn't the issue. It shouldn't be titillating, it shouldn't be this naughty secret.

A majority of people have sex.

And the sooner people stop viewing it as this thing that only gets talked about behind closed doors, the better.

People are enticed into things which seem secretive and exciting; by not allow the conversation around sex to be fun and normal, that's exactly what you'll make it.

Earthyfire
I don't think schools are obsessed. Based on my experience and observations, schools have a duty to deliver SRE as part of the curriculum and then lots of groups with their own agendas are all too happy to offer material and people to deliver SRE in a way that fits their organisation agenda. Often the ideologies are subtle.

I'm aware of some materials that try to normalise discussion of various sex acts, some materials that seem to be very penis-centric, some organisations that start offering one thing but when they've come into schools their workshop is laced with abstinence education ideology.

There should be decent funding and training for all teachers who deliver SRE and more school leaders should be clued up enough to vet organisations and agendas who are invested in pushing certain sexual agendas on children.

@TrulyOutrageousJem

Do people realise that by the time your children get to high school they will have encountered hard core porn? Teaching them about what sex entails and how pleasure is derived may go some way to balance out the version of sex/porn they have already encountered.

Yes but this is not the way to do it. This is the opposite from how it should be done. This just reinforces what they may have learned through porn.

My DD would be utterly mortified at having discussions like these with teachers and students.
Kids can find all this stuff easily. What they need someone to help them with is consent, boundaries and healthy relationships.
Why are schools getting landed with this stuff and why are they then feeling obliged to contract out to lobby groups who are using it as a vehicle to push a certain approach?
I am conflicted as I know some kids will be getting little or no support at home, but this seems like the wrong way to address sex education.

*This is a horrific document. Let’s make 13 year olds talk about inserting objects into their anus. This document is funded by the tampon tax which is in theory for the benefit of women and girls. No 13 year old girl needs to have anal sex normalised for her. If it’s something she wants to explore when she is sexually and emotionally mature then maybe but I’d wager no 13 year old girl has anal sex because they want to.

The document makes absolutely no reference to safe sex or upholding boundaries. Let that sink in - we are talking to 13 year old girls about anal sex without mentioning that their own boundaries are the first and only consideration.*

This with bells on.

Mainstream Porn has a huge problem with the abuse of woman, and particularly anal sex. Often violent.

It should not be normalised for children and especially girls.

It is attitudes like this that lead to the appalling teenage pregnancy rates that we have

The commonest factor in high rates of teenage pregancy is not insufficient knowledge about men's favourite porn fads but lack of self esteem and self worth amongst girls.

Start actively teaching girls assertiveness, self worth and independence, real consent and about women's bodies in the context of sexual pleasure. Then we can talk about centreing men's sexual pleasure in compulsory mixed sex RSE lessons.

And not to rush into things

Healthy relationships and friendships.

@earthyfire

I would have hated having to sit through a lesson liken this at aged 13. Schools seem obsessed with pushing this onto our kids.

So would I. And I can think of at least two male teachers who would have been filled with glee at the opportunity to make teenage girls feel uncomfortable, in a situation where they didn't have the option to escape. And those are just the two that I actually was taught by and experienced the abuse of power myself. I shudder at the thought of how many times that is replicated across the entire country.

My 14 year old would be incredibly upset by having to take part in a lesson based on this. She'd be fine with discussion around body parts, biology and consent but ideally in a single sex environment.

[quote YouJustDoYou](**@Clymene- once turned around to find a 5 year old sticking a pencil into the anus of another 5 year old who suddenly had his pants around his ankles, when I taught English overseas. But I think that particular event couldn't have been avoided even with sex ed

Sounds like Japan. They even have a "hilarious" prank like (young boys) love to play on other boys, they yell "kancho!" and stick fingers up the other boys butt hole. My husband said they used to do it when he was a kid there too over 40 years ago :( )[/quote]
How lovely. Poor kids.

‘Teaching them about what sex entails and how pleasure is derived may go some way to balance out the version of sex/porn they have already encountered.‘

Yes, we should definitely do that. Not make them throw dice and then make up their own tales about object insertion and FGM.

@TrulyOutrageousJem

Do people realise that by the time your children get to high school they will have encountered hard core porn? Teaching them about what sex entails and how pleasure is derived may go some way to balance out the version of sex/porn they have already encountered.

I mean yeah, this document would be great if you want to reinforce the fact that the clitoris basically doesn't exist, and anal sex is totally safe and pleasurable. Oh and that sticking objects in your orifices is great. And Docking. And sticking your tongue in someone's arsehole. Seems balanced to me.

@IAmFleshIAmBone

*[quote TrulyOutrageousJem] Do people realise that by the time your children get to high school they will have encountered hard core porn? Teaching them about what sex entails and how pleasure is derived may go some way to balance out the version of sex/porn they have already encountered.

*

I mean yeah, this document would be great if you want to reinforce the fact that the clitoris basically doesn't exist, and anal sex is totally safe and pleasurable. Oh and that sticking objects in your orifices is great. And Docking. And sticking your tongue in someone's arsehole. Seems balanced to me. [/quote]
It even includes info about a sex act I'd never heard of, that sounds very niche, fetishist and dare I say it, deviant. I am someone who has had plenty of sexual partners and sex. If I hadn't heard of this sex act or even knew it was possible, why on earth are they teaching it to kids?

IAmFleshIAmBone
There's a lot of externally produced material that seems to focus on male pleasure. The absence of female sexuality in some of the materials seems to sound awfully like women should lie back and think of England.

Thankfully, there's still a good number of schools that plan and deliver their own SRE in a way that focuses on healthy relationships, consent, boundaries and mutual enjoyment.

There seems to be a push to normalise kink and porn, deliberately targeting children .