Rude or just a normal comment?

[Redolent]

Will try to keep this brief since it’s not really a huge deal - just curious to see what people think.

Brother and sister-in-law recently moved into a new place (rental), from abroad. They have to quarantine - or are meant to, anyway. My sister had the keys and went round the day before and filled up their fridge, but also bought hampers with chocolates, lovely toiletries for both, slices, essential cutlery and dishware, as the kitchen was empty. Brother was immensely grateful and SIL also chipped in on the phone saying the same.

Sister speaks to SIL on the phone again yesterday, and latter mentions that ‘the flat was absolutely filthy and I’ve been cleaning it for three days’. Sister now feels like absolute shit, like she hasn’t done enough, but also pissed off at a rude comment that she would never have thought to make herself.

Thoughts? Have told sister to distance myself as this smacks of a self-entitled attitude.

Well unless ot was your sisters flat and she was renting it out to them, then I don't know why she would think that comment was rude. She sound a bit weird

Lots of people have already explained that in British culture this is not rude. You clearly feel guilty about not attending the wedding and angry at your sil for making you feel like that. You and your sister are now making a mess of handling this.

Sit down with your sil, tell her your culture is different and you dont know what she expects of you. Explain that if she is going to live in Britain she needs to be aware cultural norms here are different and she needs to adapt to them, not expect everyone to adapt to her.

It's a culture norm here to attend a brother's wedding and most British brides would feel a bit unwelcomed if you didnt do so. You had a reason, they'd forgive it but they would need a bit more, not less, of a welcome from you. Where were the flowers/ fruit basket or something you sent to welcome them? You are being rude to your sil.

The cooking may be. But the point scoring, power games and stockpiling of resentment?

And then have that in her ‘arsenal’ as something great that she’s done for the o thing person.

I had an elderly relative like that. Stored up obligations and resentment, operated tit for tat fall outs and cut people off over crazily self-absorbed perceived slights. She became a very lonely woman.

I'd recommend your sister gets a cat, so she continues to have someone to talk to, who might listen.

@alreadytaken

Lots of people have already explained that in British culture this is not rude. You clearly feel guilty about not attending the wedding and angry at your sil for making you feel like that. You and your sister are now making a mess of handling this.

Sit down with your sil, tell her your culture is different and you dont know what she expects of you. Explain that if she is going to live in Britain she needs to be aware cultural norms here are different and she needs to adapt to them, not expect everyone to adapt to her.

It's a culture norm here to attend a brother's wedding and most British brides would feel a bit unwelcomed if you didnt do so. You had a reason, they'd forgive it but they would need a bit more, not less, of a welcome from you. Where were the flowers/ fruit basket or something you sent to welcome them? You are being rude to your sil.

Umm, no. If a wedding abroad is too expensive for you to attend, and if you have childcare difficulties (both in my case) or if it’s genuinely too difficult for whatever reason, you don’t have to go and the other person has no right to feel unwelcomed. They had other alternatives that they chose not to explore.

Seriously? You have no idea if/what I sent something after they arrived (I did). I saw no need to mention it though.

@lottiegarbanzo

The cooking may be. But the point scoring, power games and stockpiling of resentment?

And then have that in her ‘arsenal’ as something great that she’s done for the o thing person.

I had an elderly relative like that. Stored up obligations and resentment, operated tit for tat fall outs and cut people off over crazily self-absorbed perceived slights. She became a very lonely woman.

I'd recommend your sister gets a cat, so she continues to have someone to talk to, who might listen.

She has a cat. She could probably do with another.

Like I said there are all kinds of latent expectations here. SiL expressed that she was upset, to my brother, for us not calling her my often, my mum not calling her mum, as is traditional. So far it’s a relationship governed as much by cultural norms as it is by individual agency. That goes both ways.

@Immigrantsong your cultural norms are point scoring and passive-aggression?
In which case, it’s ok to drop some of those norms if they’re not healthy!

It only goes both ways if you choose to play that game.

I get that people are feeling vibes of discomfort and disapproval from SIL. There are myriad ways to respond to that, many of which are friendly, genuine and helpful.

She's your brother's wife. It's up to him to manage her expectations and oil the wheels of her familial relationships. If he's abdicated that responsibility and placed it down heavily upon 'the womenfolk', invoking some sort of cultural 'get out of jail free card' he found in his wife's more traditional family... that's a problem of his making, that only he can solve.

Is your sister one of these people who is only nice so they can look like a hero?
My sil is like this, she’s so “lovely “ and everyone who knows her thinks she’s “so nice” - she is as long as you do what she wants and keep telling her how great she is.

Still feeling guilty then and taking it out on your sil. You dont need to feel guilty IF you had a good reason and IF you have made an effort to welcome her since she arrived. But it's quite clear from your refusal to accept what everyone has told you that you have decided you dislike her and you'll go on making up reasons to do so.

"They had other alternatives" - so she should have rearranged her wedding to suit your childcare arrangements/ budget - you are BVVU again, but you just dont wish to hear that. Are you taking this out on your brother too?

OP, I’m Asian, I don’t know if you are too but I think your SIL was expecting a spotless flat and your sister is right to take a step back. When I was unmarried and my sister was married and later moved house, there was a bit of entitled behaviour going on where my sister expected everyone to drop everything and help them move. And then everyone was expected to help clean the new house. And then when I got married and later moved house, I received no offers of help from her. And actually I wouldn’t have wanted help. I wanted DH and I to pack everything ourselves, I didn’t want family to pack my stuff and I also didn’t want to inconvenience them. We also cleaned the grotty house ourselves because I’m lazy and wanted to do it slowly

I think this SIL would quite like having you and sis running after her. Is sis unmarried?

I think you need to take it as a throw away comment. The gifts were great idea but some people’s idea of clean are higher than others.

We rent out a house and the last time we changed tenants the lace was clean but as had been empty for a month or so the agent wanted to send in a firm to give it a clean. We said no and also pointed out that we didn’t expect the house to be spotless when they move out but clean and tidy with no serious damage.

The agent wanted to keep the last tenants deposit to pay for their guys to go in and carry out repairs (little chips on paint slight marks on carpets etc) we had to tell them to give the deposit back because the were being tossers.

Immigrantsong the post was not rude. You are posting in AIBU and can expect far worse than that if you think there is something that makes you entitled to avoid any comment on your behaviour.

They aren't from the same culture as you. My autocorrect keeps messing what I type.

Eh, that's not rude , that's conversation about a fiat they've moved into.

As everyone does when they move somewhere you do a deep clean. She's not expected your sister to do it , it's just conversation

I think you’ve completely failed to understand OP’s culture and situation.

[Edited by MNHQ]

Does your sister own the house? Was it her responsibility to clean it?

@Immigrantsong you’re the one that replied to a post about passive-aggression and point scoring to say it’s the norm in your culture
Even if it’s the norm, that level of game playing with close family is not a healthy way to relate to each other.

@SharonasCorona

OP, I’m Asian, I don’t know if you are too but I think your SIL was expecting a spotless flat and your sister is right to take a step back. When I was unmarried and my sister was married and later moved house, there was a bit of entitled behaviour going on where my sister expected everyone to drop everything and help them move. And then everyone was expected to help clean the new house. And then when I got married and later moved house, I received no offers of help from her. And actually I wouldn’t have wanted help. I wanted DH and I to pack everything ourselves, I didn’t want family to pack my stuff and I also didn’t want to inconvenience them. We also cleaned the grotty house ourselves because I’m lazy and wanted to do it slowly

I think this SIL would quite like having you and sis running after her. Is sis unmarried?

We’re Arab but I think some of the same norms apply. Thanks for sharing your perspective. I think we have similar inclinations re: having stuff done for us!

Sister is unmarried yes.

OP is this your sister's flat that she's renting to DB/SIL? If so then yes it was most probably a dig from SIL, if not then it wasn't a dig in the slightest.

@Immigrantsong I did read your posts and it was the one below that made me think you have failed to understand where OP is coming from.

——————

‘OP did your sister actually check that the place is clean and ready to move into?
Could your SIL have stated it's dirty to ask for help with contacting the estate agent/landlord to resolve this?
Did your sister actually ask what she could do to help?

If I had relatives coming to visit from abroad (and I am a foreigner here too) I would be mortified if they found the place dirty and i hadn't checked or done my utmost to get them some sort of compensation for their inconvenience from the landlord.

Instead of taking it personally as a dig, why not work together to become closer and try to put yourselves in their shoes? How would you feel if you moved to a place you had to spend 3 days cleaning?

Don't hold grudges and refrain from advising your sister on a person you haven't even met. Be grown ups. Also let go of the invitation abroad to their marriage. You would be equally miffed if she hadn't invited you. Recognise you all have developed some strong biases towards this lady and work hard to overcome them. For the sake of the future.

Please don't be those sisters in law. Don't be hard work. Be better than that.‘

@Immigrantsong maybe you mistakenly replied to my post about passive-aggression and point scoring when you had meant to reply to the OP’s post about food.