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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Rude or just a normal comment?

163 replies

Redolent · 29/08/2020 23:22

Will try to keep this brief since it’s not really a huge deal - just curious to see what people think.

Brother and sister-in-law recently moved into a new place (rental), from abroad. They have to quarantine - or are meant to, anyway. My sister had the keys and went round the day before and filled up their fridge, but also bought hampers with chocolates, lovely toiletries for both, slices, essential cutlery and dishware, as the kitchen was empty. Brother was immensely grateful and SIL also chipped in on the phone saying the same.

Sister speaks to SIL on the phone again yesterday, and latter mentions that ‘the flat was absolutely filthy and I’ve been cleaning it for three days’. Sister now feels like absolute shit, like she hasn’t done enough, but also pissed off at a rude comment that she would never have thought to make herself.

Thoughts? Have told sister to distance myself as this smacks of a self-entitled attitude.

OP posts:
Angelina82 · 30/08/2020 01:27

But why shouldn’t she distance herself? It’s clearly not shaping up to a healthy relationship if there’s already pent up angst and some kind of simmering ill feeling. Rather that than continuing to lavish the person with things then feeling that they’re not sufficiently grateful.

There is a middle ground between lavishing things on someone and distancing yourself from them. Your SIL did nothing wrong. If your sister feels her nice gesture wasn’t as gratefully received as she would have hoped then she needn’t go so over the top next time.

ifeellikeanidiot · 30/08/2020 01:44

It's not rude. What would be rude would be you and your sister getting all weird about it and distancing yourself from your DB and SIL because of this.

BarbaraofSeville · 30/08/2020 04:53

If the flat was filthy then it was filthy

Not necessarily. You don't have to spend much time on here to know that people have very different expectations about clean vs filthy, other people's dirt or how much cleaning is required.

If they'd genuinely moved into a rental that required 3 days cleaning then wouldn't you be on to the landlord or agent? It seems to be an expectation that rental properties are professionally cleaned on vacation so it should have been spotless and no doubt they'll be expected to leave it like that when they leave so either this hasn't been done or the SIL is a cleaning obsessive unnecessarily cleaning an already spotless flat.

So no, I wouldn't have taken a comment like that personally especially if it hadn't been noticeably filthy when I'd visited the day before. What does your sister say about the condition of the flat when she visited? If she was putting things in the fridge and kitchen drawers or cupboards she would have noticed if it was genuinely 'filthy'.

MJMG2015 · 30/08/2020 05:04

Where is your SIL from?

If I was your SISTER I'd probably feel like SIL thinks I'm a bit scruffy as I hadn't noticed the place was dirty & cleaned it/asked if they wanted me to organise a cleaner/tell the agent or landlord etc, but no big deal

If I was your SIL I probably would have said it was dirty in passing & not meant a thing by it, other than I didn't want to be cleaning!

It's hard to know, without knowing the people involved, BUT either way it has nothing to do with the shopping & they did thank her for that. So I think your sister is taking this personally when it may not be.

beelzeboob · 30/08/2020 05:07

Not sufficiently grateful? But you said they were grateful for the food when she spoke to them on the phone....what’s the food got to do with the cleanliness of the flat?

Disfordarkchocolate · 30/08/2020 05:16

I think that is very oversensitive. Dropping of the food etc was lovely but has nothing to do with the cleanliness of the flat.

BovaryX · 30/08/2020 05:24

not shaping up to a healthy relationship if there’s already pent up angst and some kind of simmering ill feeling

What a really strange attitude. Your sister in law has commented that the rental property was filthy and both you and your sister seem to think she should not have made that comment. Why? Is she married to your brother? I feel sorry for her if she has come from abroad perhaps knowing nobody and your sister is trying to create conflict over absolutely nothing.

LynetteScavo · 30/08/2020 05:27

It's a normal comment.

No one expected you or your DSis to scrub the flat! Taking the hamper was he thing to do. SIL was grateful. If you decide to pull away from her for this it would be very shallow. Poor SIL would wonder what she had done wrong (nothing!)

BovaryX · 30/08/2020 05:28

What is the connection between your sister dropping off some very well received welcome gifts and the state of the house?

An excellent question.

oakleaffy · 30/08/2020 05:28

@BackforGood

Your sister is being weird.

If it isn't her flat, then how can she infer from that comment any sort of criticism of her ? Confused

This. If the flat was your Sisters, then yes, maybe she should have cleansed it or arranged a deep clean- but if not....

No.

BovaryX · 30/08/2020 05:32

Rather that than continuing to lavish the person with things then feeling that they’re not sufficiently grateful

Does your sister own the property they are renting? If not, what has the condition of the rental got to do with either of you? Why does commenting on it make your sister in law insufficiently grateful? What gratitude are you expecting her to show for the rental if it isn't owned by either you or your sister?

custardbear · 30/08/2020 05:32

I think it's an excuse to be mean to the SIL - she's literally done nothing wrong!

VettiyaIruken · 30/08/2020 05:34

Flipping heck. Your sister must have worked hard to manage to turn that perfectly normal sentence into a dig at her!

Quire · 30/08/2020 05:36

Your sister’s thought processes sound like my mother’s. My mother’s ‘logic’ would go something like this:

I did something nice and welcoming by dropping off toiletries and food to the house but as I did not clean it/notice the dirt/see it as my issue, SIL should have realised I would feel criticised and not mentioned the dirtiness, even if it was astonishingly filthy, and even though it is nothing to do with me, and no one is implying that it is, but SIL should nonetheless have realised I would take it personally, and never, ever mentioned the three days of cleaning, and now it’s all I can think of, and SIL will clearly remember the cleaning more than my nice gesture, and I’m cross about that.’

Etc etc etc. Exhausting.

BoomBoomsCousin · 30/08/2020 05:38

But why shouldn’t she distance herself? It’s clearly not shaping up to a healthy relationship if there’s already pent up angst and some kind of simmering ill feeling.

Where is this pent up angst and simmering ill feeling? If I had the exchange you describe with a new SiL I would think she was trying to be friendly, sharing woes and familiarity. I might not particularly like it (people moaning is usually only fun if they're self-deprecating and trying to be witty) but I wouldn't think she was blaming me. She and your brother were grateful for the shopping that your sister did and both said so. What is your sister expecting for that?

I don't see any angst and ill feeling on your SiL's side and your sister would be best advised to let it go and chill a bit, maybe offer some tips for finding a good cleaning service or what cleaning products work best since she is new to the country or, better yet, tips on how to get your brother doing some of the cleaning rather than distance herself. The woman's only just joined your family and your sister is taking the first opportunity to take offense and you're encouraging her to! It's like something from a sitcom.

Ponoka7 · 30/08/2020 05:39

Is your SIL from the same culture? If not it's a cultural clash.

For most people in the UK this would be called having a moan and just chatting about what you're doing. Some cultures don't do that. They're a lot more formal and give the best impression of their lives.

As said, there's middle ground between lavishing or distancing. SIL wasn't having a dig, if anything she was looking to bond by having a moan.

BovaryX · 30/08/2020 05:42

Where is this pent up angst and simmering ill feeling?

Another good question. Its target seems to be the newly arrived sister in law. I feel very sorry for her because reading this, it's clear that she is stepping into a world of manufactured conflict.

Quartz2208 · 30/08/2020 05:50

Yes is she from the same culture?

They were grateful for what she did

Do either of you like your SIL

FortunesFave · 30/08/2020 05:55

It sounds like your sister feels too much responsibility for others. I would never assume the woman was getting at her for not cleaning it!

Why would I assume SIL would clean my flat?

OverTheRainbow88 · 30/08/2020 06:00

I think it’s a normal comment, especially if they have lived abroad for a while and aren’t used to British politeism, shall we call it. My mum was so confused in England when you ask someone how they are and they smile and says well thanks, when they arent. Where she is from they would tell you every single ache and pain!

sparepantsandtoothbrush · 30/08/2020 06:05

Rather that than continuing to lavish the person with things then feeling that they’re not sufficiently grateful

She bought them a few essentials and chocolates. I'd hardly say that was lavish. And you said in your OP that they were extremely grateful

lottiegarbanzo · 30/08/2020 06:10

Your sister is being weird. Unless she's the landlord, the state of the flat has no bearing upon her. Your SIL was just making conversation, probably seeking common cause in some perceived feminine obsession with cleaning.

How horrible of your sister to respond by rejecting her and creating 'distance'.

So a very mixed, paranoid, self-absorbed message from your sister there (which you seem to be encouraging and colluding in). 'Welcome (superficially) but not really welcome, SIL'.

Original poster
Redolent · 30/08/2020 06:15

They’re from the same culture. It’s difficult to describe, but there’s a specific word in our language for when someone is throwing a ‘dig’ at you for not doing enough in a particular situation. Here, sufficiently welcoming a daughter-in-law by making her place presentable (like I said, there’s an undercurrent of tradition. I’m not really well versed in this because I’m removed from it from various reasons).

As it stands. SiL and sister remain on visibly pleasant terms. Distancing for me simply means stepping back and now throwing things into the relationship if it’s eliciting negative reactions from you.

Have discussed this with my sister and dug deeper. She maintains her position. Says that she would’ve expected to come back to a clean house in our culture. Simmering ill feeling comes partly from the following:

  • Sister flew long-distance to attend one of the many wedding events they had. SiL made it clear she wasn’t happy with her choice of dress and it wasn’t up to scratch for the occasion m, cue sister panicking, feeling like crap and trying to buy a new dress there (had no idea this happened, and an insecure reaction from my sister, but there it is).
  • They had another event abroad a month ago. SiL complained to my brother that we weren’t showing enough interest in her, or checking in on her enough (this is news to me!) Upset brother spoke to sister. Sister annoyed because she sent over gifts and a card with him and got a brief acknowledgment.
  • They’re currently not quarantining and are gallivanting around town without telling us. Sister has just spoken to brother about this (so she’s not simply blaming SiL, but it colours her annoyance).

I’ve had largely pleasant (virtual interactions) with my SiL. The only negative is she was somewhat presumptive about me flying out to attend their wedding (not possible, two long haul flights and incompatible circumstances) and was annoyed when I said no. Sent gifts and left brother to deal with it who had no expectations either way. Hence my own reading of self-entitlement into her character...but perhaps this is just a bridal thing.

OP posts:
SarahBellam · 30/08/2020 06:17

Unless it’s your sister’s flat whether it’s clean or not is nothing to do with her. That’s between the tenants and landlord. It was a perfectly normal comment.

lottiegarbanzo · 30/08/2020 06:19

Btw, is the SIL originally from another country or culture? Are you and your 'it's all about meeee' sister going to take SIL's every comment about the UK personally, as if the pair of you are dually responsible for the state of the nation and all its people?

Some self-aggrandisment you've got going on there.