Rude or just a normal comment?

[Redolent]

Will try to keep this brief since it’s not really a huge deal - just curious to see what people think.

Brother and sister-in-law recently moved into a new place (rental), from abroad. They have to quarantine - or are meant to, anyway. My sister had the keys and went round the day before and filled up their fridge, but also bought hampers with chocolates, lovely toiletries for both, slices, essential cutlery and dishware, as the kitchen was empty. Brother was immensely grateful and SIL also chipped in on the phone saying the same.

Sister speaks to SIL on the phone again yesterday, and latter mentions that ‘the flat was absolutely filthy and I’ve been cleaning it for three days’. Sister now feels like absolute shit, like she hasn’t done enough, but also pissed off at a rude comment that she would never have thought to make herself.

Thoughts? Have told sister to distance myself as this smacks of a self-entitled attitude.

@WaltzfortheMars

It sounds like what your sister did for brother and sil is not from kindness from her heart. She sounds like she did it so they would be forever grateful. Yet their reaction wasn't good enough for her so she's now even angrier. Or your sister thought the place was lovely in her standard, didn't even think the place was filthy in the first place, so feel inferior and that's coming out as anger.

Agreed. Your sister seems to be people pleasing and expecting a certain currency in return. When this is not returned, she sees it as a sleight. Be careful of advising your sister to distance herself from your SIL. Better to help her establish boundaries around her.

You aren’t clear what your sil said about your inability to attend their wedding. Disappointment and a bit of a moan are very different from disapproval are very different.

Oops that should say “very different from disapproval and disgust”

Don't hold grudges and refrain from advising your sister on a person you haven't even met. Be grown ups. Also let go of the invitation abroad to their marriage. You would be equally miffed if she hadn't invited you. Recognise you all have developed some strong biases towards this lady and work hard to overcome them

Great post

I agree that sister should distance though. The poor SiL is on a hiding to nothing with such thin-skinned in-laws so just leave the poor woman alone as much as possible.

👍

Your sister perceived what was said as a thaana, is that the word you were trying to describe?
We weren't there and are not the SIL, so couldn't tell you how it was meant, but either way you shouldn't get involved and leave the two to forge their own relationship, and you take the time and effort to forge your own, for the sake of your brother and a harmonious family relationship.

Is it your sisters apartment?
If not just move on with your lives

@Gizlotsmum

You say she wasn't happy you didn't attend the wedding, what did she actually do. You also say they haven't been obeying quarantine (almost as if that is you sil fault... Is it just her breaking it?) I would have taken it as a through away comment on the cleaning but you keep mention an expectation to welcoming DIL but she isn't your sisters DIL so surely the expectation isn't there or is on your parents not you. It sounds like the wedding was in her home country... And they did consider a midway location, if you know that I assume they asked your opinion? Would you have been able to go to that one? It does sound like you don't like her and honestly I can't see anything she alone has done to deserve that except one comment on cleaning. Your whole post feels like you disapprove of her... Why?

She kept asking me to attend when I’d already apologised and made it clear that my/our circumstances wouldn’t permit it. I just think that’s in poor taste. I would’ve most likely attended if it was in a midway location, and mentioned as such to my brother.

I wouldn’t say I disapprove of her, but we’re just very different people, with different interests, preferences and conversational habits. In normal circumstances I can’t see us being especially close.

Maybe I shouldn’t have affirmed my sister’s feelings, and kept the self-entitlement bit to myself. I accept that.

But yes the whole thing is very draining. It’s a lot of second guessing. Think, a culture where you ‘have’ to ask guests to stay the night out of politeness, and they have to refuse the offer.

But why shouldn’t she distance herself? It’s clearly not shaping up to a healthy relationship if there’s already pent up angst and some kind of simmering ill feeling. Rather that than continuing to lavish the person with things then feeling that they’re not sufficiently grateful.

You sound slightly mad. You think that your sister’s odd (and unreasonable) overreaction is a good basis for distancing herself from some entirely innocent party? Because your sister is nurturing ‘pent-up anger’ and ‘simmering ill feeling’ over absolutely nothing, the best solution is to randomly dismantle the relationship (rather than just accept she overreacted and move on)?

Like, don’t you people feel you have any agency or influence in shaping things, or concept of problem-solving or nurturing relationships? It doesn’t look to be ‘shaping up to be healthy’ (because your dsis took offence for no reason) so why not distance yourself from the SIL? Huh? So, so odd.

Just bizarre.

OP I get what you're saying and SIL does sound draining and lacking in self awareness.

It's impossible to know if the dirty flat comment was a dig, but I think most people would have enough sense not to mention it in those circumstances as it could easily be construed as one.

I think the problem here is that you're asking the wrong people. You're getting a British cultural response.

What you seem to want to know is whether your SIL meant her comment critically. To discover that, you'd need 'mamas of SIL-home-culture net'.

Your sister seems to be setting herself up for endless pain, trying to straddle both cultures, with limited understanding. It's going to be like an endless comedy of manners, without the laughs.

So I think your and her only sensible option, is to be polite and very welcoming, in a British way. Eventually SIL will learn the cultural context and recognise your friendliness (or otherwise) for what it is.

Your sister is wayyyyyy too sensitive

So SIL wanted you to come to her wedding when you couldn’t, may or may not have disliked your sister’s dress and commented that she had to clean her own home that had nothing to do with you or your sister?

Completely unrelated unless it was your sisters flat, surely sil was just making conversation if she had already been grateful for the gifts?

If there are different cultural expectations at play then then the only way to know is to ask, isn't it?

Isn't it also up to your brother to be bridging the gap re misunderstandings?

I think that your sister is probably trying really hard to welcome SIL but as SIL has already criticised her clothes and made her feel anxious then she's understandably taking things to heart. Especially as SIL has complained to your brother about you and your family too.
I think it's impossible for people on here to ascertain whether your SIL was having a dig or whether it was just a passing comment but I do think that your sister needs to stop trying so hard to please and just be herself and see how it goes.

Op, I think you just have to accept your sister in law's comment about the state of the place as an off the cuff remark and not intended to be having a go at your sister. It is unusual for a place to be let to a new tenant in a dirty condition, she may have found a bit of dust here or there or a glory hole cupboard and decided to make a thing out of it but three days cleaning? Unlikely.

Sister in law sounds like she has decided to be 'haughty'; in your place I would take absolutely no notice of her attitude and carry on in your normal, friendly way. She will probably thaw in time. At the moment she doesn't know her husband's family very well and is feeling insecure, hence the defensiveness.

I agree she was out of order about you not going to the wedding and about your sister's dress: if there was going to be some sort of dress code for the wedding, that should have been clearly stated in advance. Again it sounds as though she is trying to set herself up as superior in some way but, inside, I imagine she is nervous. However all that is past now. Don't let it spoil the family.

They were both pleased with your sister's welcome gifts which is good. Hope they enjoyed their 'slices' ;-).

Onwards and upwards! I hope all works out for you all.

I'm picturing SIL as Megan Markle

This is just cringe. Your sister was looking for a reason to be offended. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your sister in law saying the flat was filthy, it’s a rental. It likely was. And your sister was not responsible for cleaning it. It’s just general conversation and you both know it.

And it seems you’re also looking for a reason to be offended. The wedding thing.

So much for welcoming her, you are both behaving like petty school girls gearing up to bully the new girl. Really you should both be ashamed. You must be on the phone bitching to each other about her.

Either welcome her to the family or don’t, but don’t give it lip service whilst bitching behind her back

Poor sil

When we moved into our last house (31 years ago - OMG, how did I get so old!) it was filthy. I’ve told people this including people who bought us housewarming gifts. It wasn’t a criticism of them but of the previous owners.

There’s a few possibilities here - your sister might be being assuming a criticism where none was intended or the SIL might have meant it as a criticism either because she’s an entitled bitch or because of cultural differences. Or because she is an entitled bitch from a different culture. It might be that your sister and the new SIL just don’t like one another and this is the first of many future skirmishes.

Whichever it is I’d tell your sister to leave it for now but if the SIL says anything similar in the future use that opportunity to establish what was meant by it and maybe help manage her expectations for the future. It’s hard to marry into a different culture so there will inevitably be differences along the way.

@WonderHike

But why shouldn’t she distance herself? It’s clearly not shaping up to a healthy relationship if there’s already pent up angst and some kind of simmering ill feeling. Rather that than continuing to lavish the person with things then feeling that they’re not sufficiently grateful.

You sound slightly mad. You think that your sister’s odd (and unreasonable) overreaction is a good basis for distancing herself from some entirely innocent party? Because your sister is nurturing ‘pent-up anger’ and ‘simmering ill feeling’ over absolutely nothing, the best solution is to randomly dismantle the relationship (rather than just accept she overreacted and move on)?

Like, don’t you people feel you have any agency or influence in shaping things, or concept of problem-solving or nurturing relationships? It doesn’t look to be ‘shaping up to be healthy’ (because your dsis took offence for no reason) so why not distance yourself from the SIL? Huh? So, so odd.

Just bizarre.

I didn’t say dismantle, I said distance. For instance, sister will probably invite them for dinner at some point soon. (She ‘has to’ - BiL/SiL, tradition, our families expect it...). She should just put out a pleasant and normal spread instead of exhausting herself cooking a million dishes because that’s the ‘done’ thing to do to welcome a new bride. And then have that in her ‘arsenal’ as something great that she’s done for the o thing person. Do the minimum polite thing, move on, leave them to it for a while. That’s what I mean.

I do think people have agency, but they also have engrained ways of managing social relationships. Some people go out of their way to do things for other people, then feel taken advantage of. Or they have an list of good deeds that they’ve done, ticking away in their memory. My sister is inclined to this position, so of course in the long term she needs to modify her behaviour patterns, but it’s easier to just say ‘stop giving (so much)’ in the short term.

@rookiemere

I'm picturing SIL as Megan Markle

I don't see why. Meghan hasn't come across like the sister in law at all, on the contrary she has been natural and friendly. Why bring her into this thread at all?

So your sister is a wannabe martyr and will become a very bitter person over time. Only she can choose a different narrative and path for herself and only if she wants to.

The two of you could of course talk to your brother.

She should just put out a pleasant and normal spread instead of exhausting herself cooking a million dishes because that’s the ‘done’ thing to do to welcome a new bride. And then have that in her ‘arsenal’ as something great that she’s done for the o thing person. Do the minimum polite thing, move on, leave them to it for a while. That’s what I mean.

Wow, this is so telling!

Most people, when cooking for family, would just cook a nice meal to enjoy together.
Not try to do something amazing to score points.
Not try to do a passive-aggressive bare minimum.
Just make some nice food, no game playing