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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

FIL says he's offended. Is he right?

153 replies

dustyparadeground · 29/08/2020 16:16

So, UK husband with Italian wife. 41 years together. FIL and MIL in Italy have bought land and FIL and BIL built a large villa outside Rome. Basically it is 2 semi detached houses that Italian parents apparently often do called a "bifamiliare" one house for my BIL to live in and one for my wife and I to use when we go and possibly live in when we retire. Obviously very generous although there was no discussion about it, it was simply presented as a fait accompli. Which I have always thought a bit weird. So we visited last month and I happened to refer to it as "my house" and my FIL instantly said "wasn't I ashamed to call it my house? I should at least just say my wife's house" We were in public with a few others from extended family so subject was changed. However this has been bothering me for a couple of weeks now. Especially as we have ourselves sunk 50K into this project. I should just add he was certainly quite cogent and aware of what he was saying at the time. AIBU?

OP posts:
HannaYeah · 30/08/2020 18:25

I mean father, my aunt and uncle, and their cousins.

TheSeedsOfADream · 30/08/2020 18:55

Italian inheritance law isn't the same as France. You can leave what you want, to whom you want.

However, the alarm bells with me would certainly be any presumption that you own (you and your wife) this house at all or any part of it. It will be in BIL's name probably but he won't own it either, not really. BIL's name so that FIL doesn't pay the massive taxation placed on second homes. Etc etc.
That sort of 2 family villa bizarrely tends to be cheaper than a city centre flat, so the fifty grand might have paid for more of it than you'd think.
FIL will be offended not because he thinks it's his daughter's house- but because it's his.

I am in the south of Italy and have got the t shirt. Wink

dustyparadeground · 30/08/2020 18:58

TheSeedsOfADream

I think I deserve that t shirt too!

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dustyparadeground · 30/08/2020 19:04

HannahYeah thanks your comments very informative and interesting. Bit depressing really. I think I thought that Son In Law (and Husband to his daughter for 41 years) counted for a little more. Next time someone tells me about Italy and family I shall have a little chuckle at least :-)

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TheSeedsOfADream · 30/08/2020 19:07

Her dad probably still refers to her as "the little girl". My 64 year old SIL was widowed recently and my MIL sits wringing her hands at how a "young girl" is going to cope. Confused

Bluntness100 · 30/08/2020 19:09

Bit depressing really. I think I thought that Son In Law (and Husband to his daughter for 41 years) counted for a little more

Why? It’s no different to the Uk or many other countries. Honestly you’re coming across as quite entitled.

Oriunda · 30/08/2020 19:21

@dayknight19 and @CatbearAmo have got this right.

I’m just back from 7 weeks in Italy, spent at what I’d call our ‘quatro-familiare’ in a seaside town. Land purchased by FIL. He constructed 4 houses, one for each child. All joined together with a veranda etc.

The plot/houses belong to the 4 children together and this is deliberate in order that the land doesn’t fall outside the family (one BIL is divorcing - if his house had been in his name only his ex wife might have been allowed to use otherwise).

It’s not and never will be my house. Eventually it’ll be for my son to use and then, if he has children, for them, and so on.

Italian property law is complicated and all about keeping property within the family. Our house in the main city belongs to my husband, and will then pass to my son. That’s just the way it works.

Napeolonic law applies and ensures that property and money can never be left just to a spouse, cutting out children.

Enjoy the use of the house but forget about having any claim on it. Assuming your daughter is your and your wife’s, your wife’s share in the plot will be passed to your daughter and then her child. If they’re UK based and never have any intention of using, then that’s a conversation to have with them at some point as obviously there will be maintenance costs. They won’t be able to sell the house without your BIL permission and I’d assume that wouldn’t be given - the whole idea is that it’s a family plot. Frustrating but that’s how it is.

Ideasplease322 · 30/08/2020 19:31

i think you can across as sexist. You referred to a house which your FIL, your wife and you have all contributed to as solely yours.

It comes across as entitled, selfish, arrogant and sexist.

If you behaved like his in my family someone would have told you to wise up! That kind of behaviour is absolutely not tolerated.

Staffy1 · 30/08/2020 19:40

I would have thought it odd that you had said "my house" as well if I was your FIL. Even if your wife wasn't there at the time, it's still a bit off.

Lightline · 30/08/2020 19:51

OP I think you’re amazing for going along with this. The family living all together like that leaves me feeling suffocated. It hasn’t even started and there’s issues. I understand your position given that you’ve invested a fair amount of money in this property. You should find out what the legal position is.

TheSeedsOfADream · 30/08/2020 20:04

Not true about not being able to leave your property to your spouse. Anybody can leave anything to whoever they want, inside or outside the family. You can have kids and a wife and leave everything to the church, the local dog's home or your lover!

Obviously the norm is for the inheritance of any kind to pass to the children equally once both parents are dead but it isn't written in statute and a parent can leave their house divided between 4 kids and not the 5th one they don't talk to (for example)

TheSeedsOfADream · 30/08/2020 20:07

If there is no will, the inheritance is divided equally.

LonginesPrime · 30/08/2020 20:10

Much as I love Italy I've got no need to live in a house that isn't mine (or "ours" if you will) and with a daughter and granddaughter in the UK I don't really want to be 1000 miles from them

Does your wife get any say?

If this is how you speak about your joint life with your wife of 41 years (I don't want..I don't need...etc), I can see how that attitude might irritate your wife's family, regardless of the house issue.

MushMonster · 30/08/2020 20:19

Unfortunate exchange of a few wrong words between the two of you. I do not think it has much importance, especially after all these years. Casa nostra better than casa mia. And he could have made his point softer.
But, the real issue here. Is any of the 50000 yours? You do need to be informed of the legalities of the purchase. Whose name is on the deeds. You do not seem to be as you would have to sign the papers. So if your wife is not, you just lost 50000 pounds that you nicely gave to someone as a present. Ask your wife. Do not ask from your father in law.

dustyparadeground · 30/08/2020 20:43

Well it's not just my money it's our money but certainly I am feeling the whole thing has been misrepresented. I could be wrong but I don't think my wife thinks it's not "our house" or "casa nostra" I only said "my house" or mia casa" because at that moment she was not present. The (slightly) funny thing is this was all cut off by extended family and one guy in particular Roberto who said "cambio discorso" or "change subject" as he lives in the apartment given to his Wife by her Father i.e. a very similar situation except he has to live there!

OP posts:
dustyparadeground · 30/08/2020 20:46

MushMonster

I just hope my Wife at least is on the deeds. There was a day years ago when they all quietly went to a Notary and I wasn't invited. That was it, wasn't it? Feeling a bit stupid now

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MushMonster · 30/08/2020 20:48

It is just a game of words. We all know that what belongs to one spouse belongs to the other.
But things like whose name the property is on must be very clear. You surely need to know whose name the property is on.

staceyflack · 30/08/2020 20:58

Nice problem to have.

dustyparadeground · 30/08/2020 21:27

staceyflack

Yes I appreciate this is a First World (or Second House lol) problem

OP posts:
Teawaster · 30/08/2020 21:28

If I was for a walk with a friend I would say ' Do you want to come back to my house?' . However if I was in MIL's house , I would probably refer to it as 'our' house even if my late DH wasn't there simply because she would see it that way as the house represented a family home owned by both of us , one of whom was her DS. Equally I am would have found it strange if my DH had described our home as 'his' to my parents . I can't imagine falling out over it but there clearly is history in this situation and I suspect a certain amount of resentment on both sides for whatever reason

dustyparadeground · 31/08/2020 10:22

TheSeedsOfADream

I think your take on the scenario most accurate. FIL and MIL have done their wills (which are none of my business) they are very careful with money and I'm sure will have been mindful of any taxes. In the clear light of day I am just going to let this slide. Nothing I can do about the money now in any case and with COVID things are pretty tight again now in the UK so we can't contribute anything more even if we wanted to. The actual incident is a month ago now anyway. Quite interesting: nearly 80% said IANBU

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Ideasplease322 · 31/08/2020 10:32

You say you have a daughter. I hope you allow her to have her own property and have brought her up to assert her rights and not allow her husband to walk all over her.

Imagine in years to come of he announces the family home is his!!

I think you need to start thinking of your wife as en equal.

dustyparadeground · 31/08/2020 12:22

CatbearAmo

Very similar lol. Somehow I missed your post yesterday. Yes they always bang on about how poor they were after the War and "La Casa" seems to be incredibly important whereas I do just think of it as bricks. As an aside, I find it incredible how important they consider it but then don't purchase buildings and contents! What's that about?
The funny thing is when they were building I suggested to my FIL and BIL that we put in a pool which clearly we would have paid for (it would have made it much more a place to have a holiday) but they weren't interested and as they were project managing and there all the time I didn't feel we could insist and go ahead by ourselves. So we now have a house in a village outside Rome where there is nothing to do and we are 2 hours from a beach. For my BIL who works in Rome and has a partner and a daughter and 2 stepsons (well, only 1 that he talks too but that's another story) life is perfect and he has never paid rent or mortgage in his 53 years but for us it's just a place to visit when we see the family. I regret ever getting involved and wish we had just kept our money and done other things with it

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CatbearAmo · 02/09/2020 09:22

@dustyparadeground I think there could be many books written about Southern Europeans and their property escapades, and the turmoils of their naive foreign spouses. Or a very funny sitcom.

My pils property was originally a dilapidated house shared by four cousins who could never agree on what to do with it and were constantly squabbling. But could not bare to sell it because, "the land should stay in the family" which went on for 30 years until the government got involved and told them they had to do something about it or it would be sold for them, as bricks/tiles were falling down and were a danger for passers by.

Even to this day, the elderly cousins don't speak, and only the second cousins, including my dh, speak between themselves, as they all have "inherited" an apartment in the block that was built.

Out of spite, my fil refuses to pay for the building running costs, like elevator etc, because they were set up by one of the second cousins, so every time we visit we have to go around and pay them ourselves in order to keep the peace. These are actually quite minimal, but my fil outright refuses to put money in their hands. They want to keep the land in the family, but not good spirits, apparently.

And don't get me started on my mil, who took it upon herself to be project manager. We politely requested that the insides be decorated in neutral colors, like white. Well she went to town on the bathroom, decorating it in crazy 80s black and white swirling patterned tiles, like you are looking through a kaleidoscope or have taken some hallucinogenic drugs.

Wow, it feels great to have a place to vent!

dustyparadeground · 03/09/2020 13:41

CatbearAmo

That bathroom sounds brilliant! Don't know what you're moaning about! Yes I think Mumsnet is a good place for a 61 yr old bloke to vent!

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