Husbands secret debt

[Beckixox]

Apologies in advance for the long thread.

So I have a major problem, Ive found out that my husband has got himself in to a lot of debt through various credit cards and loans. I was already going to meet my mum, I couldn’t look at him let alone talk to him so went with the boys to meet my mum. I told her everything. When we got back to hers and having a cup of tea, my FIL rings and says how depressed his son is and that he thinks he’s “going to top himself” and that he’s “worried about HIS son” He then said don’t tell him I’ve rung. he wouldn’t do that, he’s just shitting himself because he has been found out.
I went to work the next day, just before leaving he remembered about another £5k on a card and while I was at work another £800 was remembered. I do genuinely think he had forgotten about it as his head was everywhere but not making excuses for him.

He’s been going to his parents house every day since then and have since said that he did it with the “best intentions”
I threw the book at him and said they are enabling you and you didn’t do it with the best intentions as you have nothing to show for it, it has literally been spent on nothing.

I found out because I was sorting though what outgoings we had to get a bigger mortgage. We have separate bank accounts and all bills etc come out of mine so that’s why I had no idea about it all. My parents have offered to help us as much as they can and we are meeting with them to help us look at everything to see what the best options are. His dad has quite serious health issues to the point where he is bed bound at the moment.
I want my marriage to work through this and I’ve told my husband that all the debt needs to be sorted before we can work on us and that it’s going to be a long road and I can’t guarantee the outcome. He’s terrified of losing his family

AIBU to tell his parents exactly what’s going on and that this could cost us the marriage

AIBU to not talk to them at all.

AIBU to leave the family home to make him realise that I’m serious.

Any advice or anything would be so appreciated.

The debt he can deal with. Work out income and expediture (google 'income expediture form' - it will help make sure he doesn't miss anything) and then contact creditors with it and make offers to pay them back. They're not allowed to ask for more than you can afford. So, if he's that terrified of losing his family, he can get that sorted out probably within a week. That's the debt problem done.

The thing that stood out to me about the relationship problem was him saying he did it with the 'best intentions'. Ask him to detail these intentions. If he can't give you a satisfactory answer, then he's fobbing you off and treating you like a fool. Be sure not to actually be a fool, at this point. He needs to be filling in and sending that form TODAY. Otherwise it's just more fobbing-off.

I found out the same about my then partner three years ago. OP check ALL statements. Even if credit cards look like normal spending, check debit cards for cash withdrawals and phone bills too. You need to understand where this has come from in order to stop it happening again. Mine swore blind it was just overspending.

It's recently come to light he has a bad gambling addiction. It's got worse over time (we thankfully don't live together now) and he's racked up a small fortune in debt.

I also meant to say, why do you need to leave the family home to prove you're serious? Does he not take you seriously otherwise? You have to disrupt the kids lives before he respects what you tell him?

Either ways I'd cut the parents out of handling this. Secrecy is what got you here, you need to work through this with him.

Contact first step, the debt management charity for some really good advice. They'll help him come up with a payment plan and contact some of the debtors for him

From what you've said he's got into this mess by playing catchup and maybe feeling ashamed he couldn't put his hands in his pockets to give everyone the lifestyle they wanted. The bigger house will have to be put on the back foot, if you're struggling to afford day to day living (( albeit not being aware of it)) then you won't be able to afford a bigger mortgage.

My exh ran up close to £50k of debt, mostly behind my back. I'd find out about credit cards etc, help him with interest free balance transfers to stop interest being added etc. He also took out a loan to clear several cards and a huge unauthorised overdraft. He then got new cards behind my back and ran those up too! He lied through his teeth about it all. In the end I left him. He was not only financially abusive but emotionally too. I got stung for half the debts in the divorce!

My credit rating was ruined for years. I couldn't even get a proper bank account. Took me years to get a decent credit rating.

If you manage to get it all sorted out/paid off chances are he'll just do it again.

Hi OP

It's a shit situation, but if you have good income and good credit lines, it's really easy to do.

Like putting on weight over lockdown; if you don't keep track of it, an extra half a pound a week over 6 months means you've gained a stone before you know it.

He should never have allowed it to get this far, but unless he's got gambling / drugs / porn / sex worker issues, it's also a JOINT problem.

If he's not spending on secretive things (as you says he not), then he's spent them on day to day items / trips / stuff that you should also have been aware of.

As a couple, you should both have an idea of what your expenditure capacity should be, and alarm bells should ring if the takeaways / new clothes / headphones / tat exceed that.

Well, if you are ever to have any peace of mind, then things need to change radically.

1. His salary is paid into your bank account until the debt is paid off
2. You jointly write a budget and set a limit on his spending per month
3. He cuts up all his credit cards
4. He lets you see his Experian credit report every few months until the debt is paid in full, and going forward

If he doesn't like it then you kick him out because he will not only drag you down, but your dcs as well.

It's easy for it to snowball with interest at 30% on credit card. Friend started with something like £300 on store card and ended up in the thousands as he didnt pay it off.

First step is to get his credit file and see the full mess. Moneysavingexpert used to have a free service

@Beckibrown - so, what do the statements say? What organisations are mentioned? High Street shops? Restaurants? Amazon? It seems odd to me, if his spending wasn’t secretive, only his failure to pay off the credit cards, that you wouldn’t have noticed the spending?!

You close all his bank accounts and open a very basic one with no credit function. Then contact debt charity and make sure he does everything while stand over his shoulder.

@Hoppinggreen - I completely agree with you.

Obv there can be nefarious reasons, but in many, many cases, if you have good income and lots of credit, the lure of going just above your means builds up and up until it's a big issue.

But you must have some idea where the money's going if you're looking at statements, and then have an idea of the problem?

For example, nice restaurants or hotels you never went-possibly an affair
PaddyPower and BetFred-gambling problem
Everyday places like Amazon/M&S/Wetherspoons/Pizza Express but just too often-living beyond his means, needs to put a lid on spending

I don’t think you should make a decision about your marriage unlit you have from him. Both a clear idea of how the debt was buit up and what he proposes you do to pay it off. If he’s got multiple card he’s opened in order to avoid having to face it, it’s clearly been going on for some time. That;’s a huge amount of deceit he’s orchestrated and kept up over time. You should give it a significant amount of time before you relax and trust him again.

I would divorce him.
I would not be prepared to take on this debt.

He'll probably do it again in the future anyway.
People like him never learn.

Those saying it has to be addiction think of this. If you overspend by aversge 100 a week with lunches out, a night out maybe a new phone on credit etc then you are 5k down year end.

Make min repayment and it is 6 k at end of year. Consolidate it with 7 k loan. Keep overspending and another 6k on card year 2 plus paying off loan so now overspending by 200 a week just to pay all off.

Take out another loan to pay off card because unaffordable repayments at 200 week. Keep overspending do another 6k. Year 3 you can easily be in the 20 to 30k
And interest can be adding 2 to 3k a year.

Get depressed about situation out of control and spend a bit more to escape situation....

This is so common and doesn't always mean addicted behaviour. It just gets out of control and high interest makes it unmanageable.

You need a really clear picture of total debt, use a credit agency Experian or similar with your husband's details and see exactly who he has borrowed from and when and then make a plan.

You absolutely have to sit down and work out where this money had gone. Just because it wasn't drugs or gambling etc doesn't mean it was nothing. I'm sure he didn't throw it up in the air on a windy day. It has been spent on something.

So sit down with him, print out all the statements and any paperwork you can find on everything, and start combing through it all and keep track - how much went on costa coffee and muffins? How much went on dinners out? How much went on downloading new Playstation games? How much went on clothes? How much cash was withdrawn - even just a fiver or tenner here and there? How much went on uber? How much went on beer? How much went on subscriptions? How much interest is being paid?

I know it sounds bloody tedious but it absolutely has to be done. Even if you pay off the debt, this problem will not be fixed until you figure this out. If he really doesn't know where it went then he has no way of ensuring that it won't happen again. It's scary. So make sure you sit down with him and go through it all and let him see exactly where it's all gone. If he still can't figure it out then I would start separating your finances, including living separately, because otherwise he is dragging you and the kids down with him. You can't ever trust him again unless he faces up to it all.

You really do need to get to the root cause of how he's managed to overspend by such a massive amount, or you'll be back in the same situation in a couple of years time.

Yes, this. My father repeatedly ran up similar debts. In his case to start with it was small purchases which accrued interest. He really doesn't understand money or debt at all. It's a really peculiar blindspot of his that I find very hard to grasp. I don't see how he can not understand but he doesn't. Because of his lack of understanding he would pay off the minimum, buy a few more things, and then more interest would accrue and then he'd move on to the next card. My parents are home owners so his was able to keep borrowing with the house as collateral.

He then got to the stage where he was spending on drink. He racked up £25k of debt and my parents had to sell their house to pay this off. My mother then took his credit cards away from him. He just isn't allowed them now. It's like managing the finances of a small child.

I can't say whether you should work through this or not OP. I personally would be wary of his 'I'm so sorry behaviour' because unless it's backed up by substantial behavioural changes with regard to spending, it's just manipulative. Call me mean if you like, but I have direct experience of what this kind of thing does to a family. I quite deliberately chose a partner who is very clever with money and budgeting - not rich, but like hell would he do what my dad did.

If you do work through this, your DH needs to learn about budgets and finances but be aware he might have that same weird blindspot. The good news is that at the moment, with covid, credit card companies are trying to help people with debts. The bad news is that they're very busy and some have stopped things like transfers. I'd get as much of it as possible onto zero % cards to at least stop the interest for the time being. But unless your DH changes his behaviour, he will do this again.

Getting out a loan so that you can overspend by £100 a week when you clearly have a healthy joint income with your spouse sounds like an addiction to me - an addiction to spending money you don’t have on things you do not need. It could also be a sign that cash is being spent on illegal activities (eg drugs) so only the “normal” activities show up in the credit card statements. It is not remotely normal to get out secret loans to pay off unnecessary debts behind a partner’s back.

How much cash was withdrawn - even just a fiver or tenner here and there?

Do look at whether he was getting cash out using credit cards. They charge extra for withdrawing cash and then you really get stung on the highest rate of interest. I have done it occasionally, when I've had no other options. If you're going to do it, taking a tenner out is ridiculous as you're likely to be charged at least £1.50 for doing so - it's in some ways better to take 100 and then the proportion of the charge is less. But if your DH is shit with money, he won't know any of this.

I coustant debt which
My ex did the same constantly, never ever learnt a lesson from it. I spent our whole marriage managing him and his debt. After 20 years I'd had enough and he's gone.
He called me recently to ask if he could come back - I asked why as he's shown no interest in me since he left three years ago. Turns out he is in massive debt, it's up to £40,000 now and because of covid he has no work.
No way he's coming back here, ever. They never learn and always expect someone else to sort out their shit.
I have no sympathy, he knew what he was doing. just thought he wouldn't be found out and is now suicidal etc etc. What bullshit.
I'd cut my losses and go.
i was sympathetic the first couple of times and then not at all because it just kept happening and he couldn't be trusted to put the family first or be an actual adult.

I would go through the statements with a fine tooth comb and work out what he’s gone on

Absolutely this. It's not always clear as companies sometimes use trading names that are very different from the name of the company itself, so you may need to do some googling.

If he's been spending on clothes, gadgets and "treats" for himself, while putting the family finances on shaky ground, that might be the breaking point for you. If he's done something bonkers, like pay a deposit for a car with a credit card, you need to know. If he's blown a shedload on going out with mates, gambling or drugs, you need to know.

If it transpires that cards were used for a few purchases, but he's only been paying the minimum, and the interest has racked up and up, he's shown that he's financially naive and if you are to stay together, you will have to take control of everything to do with money.

You need absolute transparency from him now. You need to know exactly how much he earns, and work out a budget that will cover all the household outgoings and leave the family with enough to live on and throw money at the card debts to clear them as soon as possible. If his credit isn't fucked, he might be able to transfer balances from some of the higher interest cards to a zero or low interest card. That will mean that the debt is paid off more quickly. But he must cut up all his cards, to avoid getting into more debt. You may need to treat him like a child and actually give him "pocket money" for his spends.

I really feel for you, OP. It must have come as an awful shock, at a time when you were thinking of getting a bigger mortgage, to find that your other half has run up a debt equivalent to a deposit on a property.

I think it’s more like someone said with interest, it seems like he has taken out cards to cover another and then just didn’t stop spending

Then he needs to confirm this is what he's done instead of just keep saying "I don't know what I've spent the money on..."

I actually can't believe some people on here have said 30k of debt isn't too bad - it's a huge amount! I'd be stressed if we had anything more than 1k to pay back 😯

If your parents know about his debt then I don’t see why his parents shouldn’t know as well, after all if anyone is helping him it should be his parent’s not yours.

And those saying LTB should seriously think about what they are saying. If you really can not move on then you must do what you have to, but you will be more than 30k off as a family if you divorce.

The divorce, splitting assessets and debts, two housing out of resources, child care access, moving away so journeys to drop off children, etc etc will make 30k look small. The emotional toil of divorce and co parenting will make this betrayal small fry as well if positions become entrenched. Read the threads on co-parenting and step parents and child access and family rifts and friends taking sides and online dating and isolation of single parents and emotional burden of decision making on your own and impact on children and much more.

Obviously you have to decide if you can rebuild trust, but be clear of the real consequences of LTB in real life not people projecting their frustrations with their relationship.