to think it's not India that people should be worried about, it's cheaper parts of the UK

[chomalungma]

If you have a high paying job in the South East - because that's what the pay levels are down there because of living costs etc - and your job can be done at home, then your job can be done in other parts of the UK for someone who will do it just as well but for less money.

There may be occasional commuting on the train - but I am sure that could be incorporated into a reasonable package.

The cost of living is much cheaper in many places in the UK compared to the South East.

I agree that WFH is exaggerated. Even if certain types of professional/white collar work lends itself to working from home, companies will still want people to come in a few days a week to train/mentor/meet clients/team events.

Therefore, people can stay further out from London (or whatever big city it is that the hub is located) but they will still need to be within relatively quick reach. Offices will reduce their real estate footprint and move to more agile working and hot desking.

There was a thread yesterday about how a London team in the Civil Service had been given permanent WFH contracts and had fanned out into the South West and Wales. It's fine for them now, but in a few years if they lose that job, they need to be prepared to accept local-rate wages. It will be a level playing field for people looking for WFH jobs in 2 years. Wages won't rise. Some professions will always be well-paid of course.

It might have an overall effect of more flexibility but majority of businesses need to keep their London office. I’m talking about the sector I know well though, other sectors may be different. We have a lot of client meetings all day and when zoom goes down in frequency people will be in more.

@BojoKilledMyMojo

I think the long term WFH situation is being over exaggerated. I think come this time next year most people will be back to normal with maybe a day or 2 at home.

Most of those I know who run businesses are aiming for that after Christmas.

We will be lucky if we are rolling out a vaccination programme this time next year, life will not be back to normal for a few years and we'll need people who can WFH to keep doing it to allow the schools to go back and the sectors where people can't WFH to recover (or at least not die).

I agree that once we have an effective vaccine or treatment then we won't necessarily be WFH forever but it's hard to predict where things will go. It seems to vary, my workmates (Pharma) all seem desperate to get back but DH's (software engineers) want to WFH forever.

Anyone working from a laptop ons table should if they are following proper dse have a laptop riser with a seperate keyboard and mouse so that the laptop is st the right height. Otherwise your not sitting properly thats a fact. Working from home on a sofa or bed as some have been doing isn't safe and for some they don't have space to put in desk and proper chair.

To top it off now we're in b2b meetings with zero break from the screen at least in the office you moved between meeting rooms and you got a bit of exercise plus gave your eyes a break from a screeb. Its not easy to do this at home where you hang up on one call and join another within seconds.

There are longer term implications here.

I agree itll ne more of a mix going forward. We're going to be be doing around 2 or 3 days in the office at most. Which is fine with me, I'd like a break from my house too.

But I already forsee that face to face meeting will increase over time more.

Those firms shutting up offices etc now, wouldnt surprise me if in a say 2yrs or so start to open more

Not many random people can do my
Job
So no worries here

@DianaT1969

To lose a job in the civil service you have to be a right idiot to be honest. They don't fire people, even incompetent ones. So they'd have to have fucked up big time (probably illegally), in which case it would be their own fault.

@KeepingPlain that might be true but times are changing and bojo is looking to reduce the civil service so I wouldnt be so sure

Your a bit late to the party. A number of major city companies have moved jobs to the north. Namely Liverpool, Manchester, Edinburgh etc.

Then they move the work to India ....

[quote KeepingPlain]@DianaT1969

To lose a job in the civil service you have to be a right idiot to be honest. They don't fire people, even incompetent ones. So they'd have to have fucked up big time (probably illegally), in which case it would be their own fault.[/quote]
But CS depts could do what the idiot Gordon Brown did and close hundreds of tax offices in towns all over the UK, make the experienced/qualified staff redundant. Then open huge call centres staff with inexperienced/unqualified cheaper staff. How stupid that looks now.

@welshladywhois40

Your a bit late to the party. A number of major city companies have moved jobs to the north. Namely Liverpool, Manchester, Edinburgh etc.

Then they move the work to India ....

But still major cities, most with pretty sub standard public transport so still no use for people living in the regions outside the cities.

@user1497207191

They could and they have made that mistake before. I've also known them to make a qualified member of staff redundant, give them a big payout to leave, and then rehire them because they had no one to do the job.

If that team mentioned got made redundant, which they'd have to do and I believe they can only do voluntary redundancy now, they can't force you to leave (they can't in mine at least), then those staff having probably been there a long time would make a lot of money out of it. I'd imagine they'd be OK with leaving in those circumstances. Probably pay off their mortgage like others have done.

Welshlady, I doubt any more companies will be relocating to Edinburgh! The threat of Scottish independence means they could end up stranded in a new foreign country, with all the extra costs of exchange rates, tariffs, etc. And their staff will not want to be paid in groats, (or whatever the SNP’s new currency is called) worth considerably less than the pound sterling.

I have a 23-year-old son starting a first 'proper' job this week. I'm actually quite concerned that everyone in the office will be WFH as I think moving to a new house in a new town and not having somewhere to go to meet people would be very isolating for him. I hope there are some people in the office to help him find his feet.

I work in the city of London and we are going back to the office 3 days a week - can't do more than that due to social distancing measures. I know a lot of people are fed up of wfh and I don't think it's going to be quite the revolution people thought it might be back in May / June time.

@Abraid2

I have a 23-year-old son starting a first 'proper' job this week. I'm actually quite concerned that everyone in the office will be WFH as I think moving to a new house in a new town and not having somewhere to go to meet people would be very isolating for him. I hope there are some people in the office to help him find his feet.

Made much worse by the current guidelines on socialising as well.

It's really hard at the moment to socialise in new groups, with people you don't really know.

Yes, it could be quite isolating. He's joining a local sports club so at least he can meet people legitimately running around on the pitch.

When I think back to starting 'real' jobs in my early twenties I realise how much I owe kind people who saw you floundering or looking a bit lost and sorted you out. Or invited you to join them for a sandwich at lunchtime.

When I think back to starting 'real' jobs in my early twenties I realise how much I owe kind people who saw you floundering or looking a bit lost and sorted you out. Or invited you to join them for a sandwich at lunchtime

This.

People are so focused on 'their productivity' that they seem to be forgetting they are part of not only a team but an organisation. A friendly chat over lunch, at 'the water cooler', a quick drink after work, all help organisations and the mental health etc of people in those organisations.

I hope your DS enjoys his first job.

My employer predominantly hires in Scotland and London and preferably tries to recruit in Scotland. Often with little success as there is a lack of specialist and then ends up having to hire in London anyway.

So for professional specialist roles it's not that straightforward to just decide to recruit in cheap areas.

So for professional specialist roles it's not that straightforward to just decide to recruit in cheap areas.

Yes, can’t expect the parochial Scottish plebs to be able to fulfil a specialist professional role eh

@apples24

My employer predominantly hires in Scotland and London and preferably tries to recruit in Scotland. Often with little success as there is a lack of specialist and then ends up having to hire in London anyway.

So for professional specialist roles it's not that straightforward to just decide to recruit in cheap areas.

Maybe over time that will change.

The population of Scotland is about the same as Yorkshire and much less than the population of London and the Home Counties.

It's very much a self fulfilling cycle.

@chomalungma

When I think back to starting 'real' jobs in my early twenties I realise how much I owe kind people who saw you floundering or looking a bit lost and sorted you out. Or invited you to join them for a sandwich at lunchtime

This.

People are so focused on 'their productivity' that they seem to be forgetting they are part of not only a team but an organisation. A friendly chat over lunch, at 'the water cooler', a quick drink after work, all help organisations and the mental health etc of people in those organisations.

I hope your DS enjoys his first job.

Thank you!

When I think back to starting 'real' jobs in my early twenties I realise how much I owe kind people who saw you floundering or looking a bit lost and sorted you out. Or invited you to join them for a sandwich at lunchtime

WFH suits older people who are established in their jobs and have larger homes.

DD started her graduate job last September. She said she learnt so much about how to handle situations from overhearing conversations between colleagues or colleagues/clients. Redundancies in her company mean that she suddenly has considerably more responsibility but WFH means that she can no longer check in informally with her line manager as situations arise. She has lost opportunities to network within the company.

In addition, she is trying to juggle WFH in a small flatshare with 2 other girls who work for different organisations - there is no privacy (they all no more than they should about each other’s employers) and working and living together means that tempers are somewhat fraught at times. All 3 girls are hoping they will be allowed back to their offices sooner rather than later.

know

@apples24

My employer predominantly hires in Scotland and London and preferably tries to recruit in Scotland. Often with little success as there is a lack of specialist and then ends up having to hire in London anyway.

So for professional specialist roles it's not that straightforward to just decide to recruit in cheap areas.

Well no, that's because all the "good" jobs are in the City, so graduates had to leave their home/Uni town to relocate there to get the job they wanted. So now they're in London. It's a vicious circle. Covid and more people wfh could well stop and reverse that vicious circle, but it will take years, not months, for people and firms to adapt to the new equilibrium.