to think it's not India that people should be worried about, it's cheaper parts of the UK

[chomalungma]

If you have a high paying job in the South East - because that's what the pay levels are down there because of living costs etc - and your job can be done at home, then your job can be done in other parts of the UK for someone who will do it just as well but for less money.

There may be occasional commuting on the train - but I am sure that could be incorporated into a reasonable package.

The cost of living is much cheaper in many places in the UK compared to the South East.

@chomalungma company provided laptops that are encrypted that don't allow you to connect to your own printer.

Where the person is freelance they either sign a contract making them liable for data loss or are regulated by professional body that has those standards.

[quote RedRumTheHorse]@chomalungma company provided laptops that are encrypted that don't allow you to connect to your own printer.

Where the person is freelance they either sign a contract making them liable for data loss or are regulated by professional body that has those standards.[/quote]
Some companies do that.
Some don't.

Not being able to print stuff out at home can be an obvious issue.

I know what we do - because I am responsible for GDPR and the IT. I worry a lot about WFH - even though we do have a lot of steps in place to make sure we reduce the risk of WFH.

Why would everyone move to the North, I have close family in the south east, I am originally from London, it is where I want to be.

@Goldenbear

Why would everyone move to the North, I have close family in the south east, I am originally from London, it is where I want to be.

Missing the point. It's not about moving to the North. It's about people who already live in cheaper places doing the work that people in expensive places already do.

So they can be with their family in cheaper places - yet have access to many of the jobs being done in more expensive places.

Is the skillset there currently to make that transition?

@chomalungma your organisation's issues aren't other organisations problems.

Or rather, it’s automation that is the new India. As an aside, it’s very patronising this attitude to Indian workers doing outsourced UK work, with undercurrents of racism when you dig down into it. It’s not inconceivable that the emerging economies will one day be looking to outsource the work that can’t be automated to poorer Western economies. It’s worth bearing in mind that Indians - at least middle class and upper ones - are by and large very educated and not just destined for call centres.
What we are seeing is the acceleration of a reckoning over which jobs are actually useful and which can be automated or done away with altogether. It was always going to happen but it’s just going to happen a lot sooner than we imagined.

@Alabamawhirly1

The gov arnt keen on wfh. I'm guessing because they don't want a London property price crash.

I forsee health and saftet regulations coming in for home workers. You'll need a proper desk with swivel chair and appropriate lighting. Anyone that doesn't have room for this won't be allowed to work from home.

I don't actually think full wfh would work anyway. I think more flexible working would be really good though and city centre office hubs. Where anyone can go and work remotely but it's a proper office set up.

People shouldn't actually be expected to work from kitchens and sofas. My dh has had to set up a desk in our sons room. I also think it's good to get out the house and interact with the rest of the world. And I don't think wfh will be good for career progression and relationship building.

Display Screen Equipment (DSE) rules apply just as much at home as in the office. If companies allowed staff to continue working from laptops on the sofa long term then they'd be leaving themselves open to legal action for the health problems which result.

[quote RedRumTheHorse]@chomalungma your organisation's issues aren't other organisations problems.[/quote]
So you're saying that every organisation has supplied their workers with the correct equipment, has fully secure remote access to the systems, has ensured that all workers WFH have adequate systems to ensure data is safe, that paper copies are secure, that conversations can't be overheard, that they know where all the data is, that adequate anti-virus, MFA etc is in place?

I'm an old person so working not an issue.

I live in the south east because of the weather. Oop North can be very beautiful with cheaper housing but you only have to see the vitriol on here when some hapless Londoner says how nice the summer has been and they are forcefully reminded that elsewhere in the country the weather/summer hasn't been all that.

Employers will keep paying good money for hard to find expertise.
Supply and demand. Skilled professionals are still in short supply, no matter where they work from.

I agree everyone else should be worried, but this was a problem before COVID anyway.

And skilled professionals like to live in warm, sunny places. The concept of "sun belt" is hardly new. The South East will remain a popular place to live (London... not so sure)

Heaven forbid other parts of the UK might receive any sort of economic uplift at the expense of parts of the south east

About time!

And skilled professionals like to live in warm, sunny places

That's a strange comment....

@Goldenbear maybe not right away as people tend to train for local industries if they don't intend to move away. However, there are a lot of people from elsewhere in the Uk who move to London for work as graduates, but would prefer to live nearer family or in a less built up area. There'd be no reason for them to stay and pay London prices any more. Pretty quickly, very capable, experienced people could start to apply for jobs based in London whilst still living in their chosen place.

Im worried about house prices in Scotland being forced up by people moving up from the south east, apparently sales and enquiries are up a lot with a third from England, particularly in the Highlands. People cashing in their big property bonus is likely to curtail my choice of area to move to when my last DC leaves school.
Mind you a couple of winters could see them changing they mind...

@chomalungma - why do people start these threads? Sorry OP, but what is your real point here? People are scared, the economy is fragile, finances are precarious, so you think a goady 'watch your back thread' is appropriate?

[quote luckylavender]@chomalungma - why do people start these threads? Sorry OP, but what is your real point here? People are scared, the economy is fragile, finances are precarious, so you think a goady 'watch your back thread' is appropriate? [/quote]
It stems from another thread - about the possibility of jobs going to India.

I suppose people could bury their heads in the sand and pretend it isn't happen.

Or they could take steps to ensure they are seen as valuable in an organisation etc

I think it will take a high profile breach of GDPR to really flush out some of the data protection challenges of WFH.

E.G an exec whose travelled to the Bahamas for 6 weeks and is working there whose laptop gets stolen and corporate and customer info extracted. Throws up all sorts of issues like employees working outside UK, Use of communal wifi in a hotel etc. A lot of firms had t&cs that promise customers their data won’t be transported outside uk Or Eu and I don’t think many firms got round to considering what activities breach this. Plus their insurance is unlikely to pay out so all sorts of unprovisioned costs and risks to pay out. It will end up crippling firms that don’t take it seriously.

Councils and charities seemed to get fined quite often by ICO looking their enforcement notices so the challenge is across all firms and sectors. Like when the NHS had that contractor working from Marbella, I found that odd that it was allowed at all.

I had to go into a client's home a week or so ago, he is currently WFH.
While I was there he took half a dozen phone calls, all on speaker phone, and I heard all of the conversations. He works for the NHS.

Debate on R4 atm strong argument against sending back to work at same time as opening schools. Hard to know what causes any surge. Give schools a shot first.

Im worried about house prices in Scotland being forced up by people moving up from the south east, apparently sales and enquiries are up a lot with a third from England, particularly in the Highlands. People cashing in their big property bonus is likely to curtail my choice of area to move to when my last DC leaves school.
Mind you a couple of winters could see them changing they mind...

Yeah I'm glad we bought last year now otherwise there's no way we could afford a place. But yes one winter only will send them running back down south. If they think a few inches of snow is bad, try the couple of feet that can block roads up here. Plus the heating bills for an oil heated house will give them heart attacks if they aren't lucky enough to get a gas one.

Quite frankly if big companies aren’t thinking this way I’d be stunned. Canary Wharf in particular is going to be fucked. Hopefully there is going to be a revolution away from big open plan offices and presenteism. Most likely a move towards equalisation of house prices. Much better news for key workers and people who have to be in London and better news for the environment-not so good for sandwich shops and fancy bars

I forsee health and saftet regulations coming in for home workers. You'll need a proper desk with swivel chair and appropriate lighting. Anyone that doesn't have room for this won't be allowed to work from home

I am more comfortable with a normal dining chair than I am in an office chair, which kills my back within hours. One of the reasons I cannot work FT in an office actually, I just can't get comfortable. When I did work more in an office a couple of years ago I used a meeting room chair with two cushions.

However, there are a lot of people from elsewhere in the Uk who move to London for work as graduates, but would prefer to live nearer family or in a less built up area. There'd be no reason for them to stay and pay London prices any more. Pretty quickly, very capable, experienced people could start to apply for jobs based in London whilst still living in their chosen place

How will this affect new graduates/ trainees, the experts of the future?

We live up north in a very cheap area with high unemployment. DS2 graduated last year and knew that there was never any question of finding a graduate career locally, he would have to move. As did all of his peers.
In fact he started a grad scheme in early lockdown so has only ever known WFH with very occasional commutes to work. Luckily his employer decided to take the risk of distance training and didn't cancel the scheme like many companies did.
Advantages - he could afford to buy a house now at 22 in this area or choose to live anywhere cheaper than the city where his job is based.
Disadvantages- learning a new career online, not being able to make new friendships among colleagues because all interactions are on teams / zoom, no gaining experience in the "real" workplace.