to think it's not India that people should be worried about, it's cheaper parts of the UK

[chomalungma]

If you have a high paying job in the South East - because that's what the pay levels are down there because of living costs etc - and your job can be done at home, then your job can be done in other parts of the UK for someone who will do it just as well but for less money.

There may be occasional commuting on the train - but I am sure that could be incorporated into a reasonable package.

The cost of living is much cheaper in many places in the UK compared to the South East.

The new normal won't be 100% from home in many cases I don't think. I think it will be either 3 days home 2 days office or 2 days home 3 days office. The promotions and progression will still happen more for those who out in the face time.

It may be possible for someone live 3 hours away and then just book a cheap air bnb for the couple of days they're in the office. But I don't think this mass exodus out of London will happen.

It might open up opportunities though, eg I'd be happy to get the extra income from someone renting a spare room as a regular thing 1-2 nights a week but wouldn't want a full time lodger.

I live in the SE because my dh's job is tied to London, though am originally from the NW. I would be delighted if we could relocate closer to family and friends and buy a similar house to one we have now at 1/4 the cost.

My salary as a HCP is exactly the same no matter where I live in the UK. I don't work in inner London anymore so don't get the slightly higher salary some NHS workers do.

We live in the commuter belt and apparently lots of people are trying to move to our area at the moment so not sure there is a big negative hit around here just yet.

Yes, I think anyone who thinks they can charge a London premium for their services while living In the country is going to have a v nasty shock quite soon. There are a few jobs where that is possible, but not many.

It will be interesting to watch it play out. I'm thinking in terms of recruitment. There is often a satellite office somewhere in the north. I do wonder whether, when there are free roles, they will start to consider these people into the top jobs, given that people left alone in satellite office are often highly competent and have a great overall view of the business, far better than those in specific roles in London. They also have more experience at communicating well online. Obviously a small subset but still, fascinating.

I’m mixed raced and agree with Bateshotel. Many BAME and other types of minorities will not move outside of the South East due to not feeling welcome in many other areas of the country (Brexit opened up a lot of eyes). Plus the weather..plus believe it or not many people like living in London, not everyone secretly wishes to live in villages or small towns where everyone is allegedly friendlier.

This paragraph would make a degree of sense if you said London instead of the south east, and weren't conflating non-SE with non-urban (did you not know that most people in the UK outside the south east live in urban areas?) As it is, just sounds daft. Like you aren't aware of the rural, Brexit voting, not especially diverse south eastern shires or the left wing, diverse, Remain voting northern cities. Although it would be understandable if you weren't, since heaven knows we heard a lot less about the non-London south east being very Brexit than we did about the north, and the northern cities virtually all being Remain hasn't exactly formed part of the prevailing narrative. Really the picture was essentially the same: the big cities in both regions were Remain, take them out of it and the vote was Leave.

But really, if you're a left leaning BAME person you're hardly likely to feel more at home in a virtually all white, Tory MP, Brexit through and through village in Buckinghamshire than you are in a cosmopolitan area of Manchester! That's not to tell anyone where to live, but if what you mean is you're not prepared to live anywhere other than London, just say that.

My comments have been taken as anti-North, which they weren't. I have lived, studied and worked in the North and the South. I would have continued working in the North (Leeds) if the opportunities had been there.

There is too much difference in size, skillset, culture and facilities (internet, public transport and yes, education - much more spent on London's schools) between London and the rest of the UK to rebalance things meaningfully without massive public investment in infrastructure. We're not France or Germany. The disparity in city size is too great. I haven't heard much about the 'Northern Powerhouse' lately and HS2 seems destined to fall under its own weight.

It will always be easier to move people about than move the work to them, whether that's physically or virtually.

The poster who mentioned Tomorrow's World was spot on. The newspapers do like a bit of futurology. Doesn't mean it's going to happen.

If houses in SE fall then people. Won't move out, maybe due to negative equity etc, so would still need the larger salary. Can a company move a job to wfh from office and make someone redundant. The longer term impacts are worse as higher skilled employees can't train and mentor in the same way.
Big impact on pension funds who own lots of commercial properties?

It will always be easier to move people about than move the work to them, whether that's physically or virtually

This just seems a massive generalisation when there's so very much variation in what work involves. Some jobs can be done entirely remotely, and thus can be moved to anywhere with a good enough internet connection with extreme ease. Others can't at all and need to be delivered in a specific location, many are somewhere in the middle. How then can we possibly say any particular way of doing things will always be easier?

I would have continued working in the North (Leeds) if the opportunities had been there

Leeds is now a major financial and legal hub.
It's even got broadband, culture and a diverse population as well.

Mumsnet wouldn't be much fun without massive generalisations .

I am just very dubious that this government has any kind of credible regional/educational/infrastructure policy whatsoever. Which is what you would need for a mass move to WFH and out of cities and the SE to happen in anything other than an ad hoc way particularly with the additional complexities of Covid and BREXIT.

I would prefer the situation to be different. I don't think the current dominance of London is a good thing.

@chomalunga - and they can't prove themselves from home? Such an old fashioned attitude. Many, but certainly not all roles can be performed equally well or better at home. And employers get the benefit of a less stressed employee who benefits from less commuting time and more time with their family.

Wouldn't it be great if there wasn't such a wealth disparity between the regions, that housing was affordable on an "ordinary" wage and wfh was an equal option to office working, according to people's preferences and lifestyles.

The SE/rest of country divide is unhealthy and unsustainable regardless of CV19 and we should endeavour to change it.

@Phineyj

Mumsnet wouldn't be much fun without massive generalisations .

I am just very dubious that this government has any kind of credible regional/educational/infrastructure policy whatsoever. Which is what you would need for a mass move to WFH and out of cities and the SE to happen in anything other than an ad hoc way particularly with the additional complexities of Covid and BREXIT.

I would prefer the situation to be different. I don't think the current dominance of London is a good thing.

No, I don't think they have a credible regional policy either, nor do I think they would want the value of London commercial property to reduce. Which is one of the reasons for the drive to get people physically back into work. What happens will happen piecemeal.

I would tend to agree with PP that a mass exodus to the North isn't really likely. Such a big move (in location, from family / friends, in lifestyle, in culture etc) doesn't seem likely for the majority.

However I think more frequent WFH might impact the places closer to London but too far to commute daily. I'm thinking Bristol, Cardiff, Birmingham. Places where you can commute to London one day a week, going there and back in the same day.

I foresee people moving out of London to these big cities, therefore driving up house prices in these cities.

Although as PP pointed out, I can't see the government making WFH easy. However they can stop it, through taxes, additional regulatory or insurance requirements etc, I would think they will try.

Yes, that's true now but in the early 2000s when I had to make the decision, it was only emerging. I now own a house in London and have frail elderly parents here.

Wishing doesn't change the facts of where most of the economic activity takes place, either. The North's a net recipient (tax paid is £39bn less than government funding spent there). London generates £38bn more tax than it has spent on it and the SE £24bn (these are 2018-9 figures).

Those are Treasury figures from Martin Wheatcroft's useful little book 'Simply UK Government Finances 2018-9' before I am accused of making up statistics again.

Wishing doesn't change the facts of where most of the economic activity takes place, either. The North's a net recipient (tax paid is £39bn less than government funding spent there). London generates £38bn more tax than it has spent on it and the SE £24bn (these are 2018-9 figures

If only there was a reason for that...…………….

There is a reason for that? The UK, like other centralised countries, is based largely on tax-transfer from the parts where the money's made to the parts where it isn't.

I don't think that's sustainable post BREXIT/Covid. We borrowed more in April than in the whole of last year.

What's your solution? Different government? We all WFH? Wealth tax?

There is a reason for that? The UK, like other centralised countries, is based largely on tax-transfer from the parts where the money's made to the parts where it isn't

Do you get sarcasm?

Its obvious what the reason is. It shouldn't need explaining.

I have reported your post. MN rules are no personal attacks. If you don't want to debate...why post?

@Phineyj

I have reported your post. MN rules are no personal attacks. If you don't want to debate...why post?

Seriously?

You don't get the tone of

"If only there was a reason for that...."

Let me explain.

You posted that London was the place of economic activity, a wealth generator, lots of taxes being generated and the North was a net recipient, less wealth being generated.

And I said

"If only there was a reason for that...…………"

The dots are the clue.

It's obvious what the reason is. It's obvious all the way through this thread, with the vast amount of large financial firms in London with their sky high profits, the vast salaries down there and all the growth. Plus that's where a lot of people live etc and it drives itself like a cycle.

And you decided to report my post as a personal attack?

what do you think the solution is @chomalungma & how can it play out in reality?

@looperb

what do you think the solution is *@chomalungma* & how can it play out in reality?

Well let's see how levelling up goes post Brexit.

If people can WFH more, then there might be jobs created elsewhere rather than this massive imbalance between London and the rest of the UK - as well as the difference between towns and major cities.

The economy needs rebalancing as well. We are a service economy. New industries with new skills need to be developed and encouraged, along with massive investment in infrastructure.

However - that's not really what this thread is about. It's a whole new thread.

I think the long term WFH situation is being over exaggerated. I think come this time next year most people will be back to normal with maybe a day or 2 at home.

Most of those I know who run businesses are aiming for that after Christmas.