To wonder if you know that the meat you buy could have been raised in a factory farm...

[MsWonderful]

And that the animals could also have been subjected to horrific cruelty even if the farm is Red Tractor approved?
www.daventry.radio/daventry-farm-suspended-from-red-tractor-scheme-amid-animal-welfare-concerns/

Yes they make it more like human breast milk like soy formula etc
So they can make a formula for babies that isn't made from cows milk can't they?

This post is about animal cruelty in farms etc
Giving animals a decent life before they are killed is the least we can do!

Some of these dairy farms I've seen are horrific
I'm sure there are ones that are not as bad etc but it's not really a life is it and if we could cut down the consumption of dairy it would help I like to think

I also think that more people should breast feed obviously everyone has their reasons and some can't but I do feel like some people just need more support when starting
We all know it's the best for babies yet alot of people get pressured into not doing it or stopping as soon as they can and switching to formulas

We don't need to consume animals to live well and that's my point

It is not the best for every baby.

As I said, you would do well to educate yourself you might find it helps with your understanding of the issues.

Have a lovely day.

As I've said generally a healthy woman should produce healthy milk
(I'm not talking about the minorities here)
If not then there is formula but it doesn't have to be cows milk does it?

I don't need to educate myself on things I'm not concerned about

If I was unable to breastfeed then I would research the best option but I was

This is my opinion

Animal's shouldn't have to suffer! You can't justify that to me however its put

@40andginger

Yes they make it more like human breast milk like soy formula etc So they can make a formula for babies that isn't made from cows milk can't they?

This post is about animal cruelty in farms etc
Giving animals a decent life before they are killed is the least we can do!

Some of these dairy farms I've seen are horrific
I'm sure there are ones that are not as bad etc but it's not really a life is it and if we could cut down the consumption of dairy it would help I like to think

I also think that more people should breast feed obviously everyone has their reasons and some can't but I do feel like some people just need more support when starting
We all know it's the best for babies yet alot of people get pressured into not doing it or stopping as soon as they can and switching to formulas

We don't need to consume animals to live well and that's my point

I believe very much in supporting mothers to BF. Because I do believe that 'natural' is better and more environmentally sound than industrial chemical processes.

However, that means I also believe that things we have biologically adapted over thousands of years to consume, such as animal products, are better than creating synthetic imitations through even more complex processes and involving worldwide transportation, compared to things produced in the same country or nearby.

For example, eggs. A great source of protein. Ideally collected from hens ambling around in the back garden. No cockerel, so no inadvertent chicks. Fed on locally obtained feed, greenflies, worms, bugs, mice, grass, clover, whatever they feel the need to eat as fairly omnivorous avians. Far less environmental impact than shipping in Chia seeds and agar flakes for setting things, buying apples from New Zealand to go into cakes, non organically grown beans, pulses and legumes to provide protein, no complicated procedures to accessing the protein, just crack it and it's there for cooking. Replenished every couple of days, source of fertilisers for plant crops, access to potential meat, feathers for warmth/comfort, easy to produce, easy to harvest, easy to consume and for the vast majority of us, digest.

If people wish to adapt the frankly misogynistic tone of 'EWWWWW CHICKEN PERIOD LUMPS', 'MOULDY MAMMARY SECRETIONS', 'BUT, PUS' (and it is pus, not puss, which few seem to be aware of) and anthropomorphic depections of what animals would think if they weren't an animal but were the result of a real life The Fly experiment, that's up to them. But consuming animals and animal products is not biologically unnatural, it's not inherently more damaging than commercial crops on unimaginable scales, it's not the only way people damage the environment and it's not only disingenuous, it's outright inaccurate to say it is.

The meat industry has a devastating effect on the planet. It's hardly new information. I've yet to see any argument that would convince me to eat less fruit and vegetables and start eating meat.

No one is going to agree meat vs no meat but I hope at least everyone thinks a little bit more about where their meat is sourced from this thread if they didn't already!

No! I know where my meat comes from, the Farmers I know are ethical and I’m not concerned!

When it comes to meat and the planet, it has been repeatedly explained on the thread that not all meat is equal. Ruminants, managed correctly, can help sequester carbon as well as providing top-notch protein in countries where many people are on the breadline. Indeed, it's also been explained that some meat is a by-product of crop production.

But it hasn't helped the people who are currently dying or have died of starvation up till now has it?

The structural inequalities both within countries and between them would not be solved by everyone moving to a vegan diet.

So now it’s not enough to tell children they need to eat their dinner all up because starving children, the dinner has to be vegan?

The structural inequalities haven't been ironed out by a meat based diet either though.

Many studies have shown that livestock farming consumes a significant amount of water to produce meat. For instance 13.500 liters of water are used to produce 1kg of beef meat whereas 238 liters of water are required to produce 1kg of corn. A plant-based diet requires less water to produce the food as it suppress all animal based products.

In addition to consuming a lot of water to produce meat , livestock farming also pollutes water source because of the waste produced by the livestock ends up in waterways.
Livestock farming causes acid rains due to a high concentration of ammonia in the atmosphere it generated. In consequence the water sources are getting polluted and the diversity of submarine species decrease.

refillmybottle.com/blog/how-a-plant-based-diet-can-impact-our-environment

There are environmental challenges to both meat and arable farming.
Structural inequalities are not going to sorted by either a vegan or omnivore diet.
All farming places stress on the planet and kills animals.
Some people believe their diet is a more moral choice than other people's choices, others don't share this belief.

[quote MoiraRosesTransAtlanticDrawl]Many studies have shown that livestock farming consumes a significant amount of water to produce meat. For instance 13.500 liters of water are used to produce 1kg of beef meat whereas 238 liters of water are required to produce 1kg of corn. A plant-based diet requires less water to produce the food as it suppress all animal based products.

In addition to consuming a lot of water to produce meat , livestock farming also pollutes water source because of the waste produced by the livestock ends up in waterways.
Livestock farming causes acid rains due to a high concentration of ammonia in the atmosphere it generated. In consequence the water sources are getting polluted and the diversity of submarine species decrease.

refillmybottle.com/blog/how-a-plant-based-diet-can-impact-our-environment[/quote]
In the United States, in some intensive systems perhaps.

How much water does it take to produce a kilo of beef in the UK on a hill farm?

On my farm I would be more than happy for them to take as much water as the like, we have more than enough of it [glares at boggy fields]

Yes ! Everyone knows this Surely
It’s why I barely eat meat or dairy

The over simplification is very trying.

Almond production in California is a much bigger issue water consumption issue that animal rearing in the West of Scotland.

Yes,adjustments need to made to make moving forward realistic and sustainable. I don't mind going without almonds or avocados if they are unsustainable.

Moira ammonia is alkaline. It can't form acid rain. Please find better source material.

There are plenty of environmental issues with farming - horticulture, meat, arable, dairy - but they are complex, geographically variable & inter-related. There are no easy answers here, apart from perhaps the overwhelming majority of people agree that we must raise the bar on animal welfare standards & stamp out cruelty & abuse.

Which governing bodies opinions would you respect? David Attenborough?

“The true tragedy of our time is still unfolding – the loss of biodiversity.The natural world is fading.”
To reign in one of the biggest drivers that is exploiting the planet’s resources and aggravating the climate crisis, Attenborough’s advice to the people is to swap meat or switch to a vegetarian diet and plant more trees.
“We must change our diet. The planet can’t support billions of meat eaters"
“If we had a mostly plant-based diet we could increase the yield of the land. We have an urgent need for free land… Nature is our biggest ally.”

www.totallyveganbuzz.com/news/david-attenboroughs-urges-ditch-meat/

But look, if you want to eat meat,go for it. Entirely your choice, my problem is, that choice included a sentient animal that did not have a choice. So as important as the hills in Scotland are, or the avocados are in California I just wish folk would give as much as a shit about the 2.7 trillion victims that will die.

Well, TV presenters don't tend to get good press when they tell people the most responsible thing of all is to give up flying, driving and, most of all, having children.

Source material of a better quality than the inability to distinguish between an acid and an alkaline, rather than a bloke what's on telly would be more useful, anyhow.

totallyveganbuzz.com won't do I'm afraid.

To be fair, improving the environmental performance of agriculture has been my job for the past decade, so I don't think there will be anything you can show me that will change my views.

I shall email the source directly and let them know! But vegans are not flat earthers, it's a fact that these animals are killed for a sandwich. But so many people are ok with this it's frightening.

I shall email the source directly and let them know! But vegans are not flat earthers, it's a fact that these animals are abused and killed for a sandwich. But so many people are ok with this it's frightening.

I shall email the source directly and let them know! But vegans are not flat earthers, it's a fact that these animals are killed for a sandwich. But so many people are ok with this it's frightening.