Have you and your partner/spouse both managed to have successful careers whilst raising children, or has one career suffered?

[Dr1ppin]

I keep reading that you ‘can’t have it all’ and something has to give. My husband is currently the breadwinner and works long hours but I want to start focusing on my career now (he has never stopped me and has only ever encouraged me). I just wondered how realistic it is of me to expect to be able to focus on my career whilst raising children especially if my husband works long hours? Our children are 18 months and newborn. Is it going to be one or the other for me?

Really fascinating thread by the way!

It depends on your definition of having it all! Everyone is so different.
For myself I feel very fortunate, that were all happy, we have a home and enough money for bills and savings, we've got out long awaited child that I was able to take 13.5 months of maternity leave. I work part time (flexible with shifts, including weekends and nights), husband works full time Monday to Friday and have flexi time therefore our child needs to be looked after 1-2 days at the most by a grandparent.
I have a good stable career but feel family life is more important and that a child needs at least one parent at home most of the time.
Other people want to work full time and progress up the career ladder, other people cannot afford for one of them to go part time, other people are single parents and need to work full time also.
Everyone has different life choices.
My advice is aslong as you and your family are happy, you have enough money for bills/savings, you have a home, do what works for you.
I often see mothers stressed out (predominantly female work environment) as they want to try and progress higher up the ladder but feel they're missing out on their children growing up and forking out nearly all their wage on childcare.

You can’t have it all if your job is inflexible and not child friendly (mine was), with a long commute and equally your DH has a full on job where he travels at a moment’s notice and would get home at 9pm earliest. Plus he has long commute. No family help. How can that work?

Well I guess we could have got a nanny but I wouldn’t have seen my kids from Monday to Friday? So I wouldn’t really call that having it all..

So surely it depends on the very unique circumstances of each family no?

If both have high paid flexible jobs, lots of family help, no travel, can afford a nanny then yes.

What is having it all though?

I now run my own business so I earn less but a decent amount, have time to exercise and see kids/ walk the dog but I did give up my former career to do it. Far happier now though. Nearly had a nervous breakdown trying to work full time with a 6 month old and a toddler with a husband that was never around to help. That was the opposite of having it all!

I also think some of these responses are really short sighted. ‘Just drop the kid off at nursery, then pick up on the way back from work! Easy!’ Well no not if you finish work at 6pm an hour away! Not if your DH is in the US for a week. Etc etc.

Not all jobs/ situations are the same.

Just because it works for some families doesn’t mean it can for all.

Yes, a vital factor is fathers’ willingness to curtail working hours/work travel.

@Delatron that’s why I said that you both have to plan your job accordingly. I could have a career in a family unfriendly industry (a lot easier), but I made a massive effort to get into a family friendly one (which ironically also pays a lot better, but is not straightforward to get in). Same for my husband, the more family friendly jobs actually pay better, but you need the right qualifications.We both have fairly high flying careers, but carefully build them to be family friendly, and most of my friends did the same. They planned their career and adapted as they went.
And the same for childcare. We never used nursery, way to inflexible. We went through a lot of effort to find our super flexible childminder, and now make sure we stay with her.
It takes a lot of forward thinking and organization, but it is possible. Just not easy, and you are playing the long game.

Yes I did make an error of choosing a very family unfriendly career and I’ll hold my hand up at that! But I was kind of told that I could do it all, wasn’t on my radar to consider kids when I started in my industry at 21!
Of course I could still work 7am-7pm, just get a nanny! Easy.

Reality when you have two young children very close together is different.

I accept that I made my bed though! I did try and go part time in a slightly different industry but then felt I was doing everything badly.

And I will say that DH, although he said he would support whatever I chose made no effort to switch jobs to a family friendly industry, or reduce hours or anything.

Hindsight is wonderful and I do wish I’d pushed him more. But I think I was too exhausted trying to battle with him over whose career was more important with two very young children to look after and everything house related fell to me.

Don’t do what I did!

It's probably all been said, but you have to choose what is important to you. I chose work for the early years of my children's lives, and it was only by the third one that I felt I was missing too much of their lives. If you're more fulfilled by career that's totally valid, you just have to own the decision. I was standing in the pub one Friday night and excitedly showing them the video my nanny sent me of my baby's first steps. I was super happy about it and saw no issue with not having seen it myself. My colleagues were really surprised and kind of thought I was cold, so another pitfall is the expectation that all mothers want to be present for their child's every moment. Be aware of that and be circumspect about how much you share. I worked with a lady once whom we all assumed was childless simply because she never, ever mentioned her kids - it's not a bad plan...

@Delatron Yeah that was kind of my life, I did it for six years with three kids close together in age. We had a nanny who worked 60 hours a week and was also happy to do overtime if trains were late. It seemed too much once my third was about two. Thing is, it's easy to observe what I lost, and to go on about that, not what we gained. I earned an awful lot of money that will pay for house repairs and one set of school fees. It helped that our nanny was like a mother to them (and much more patient) , so I never felt they were losing out. Now that I'm working from home, I'm going a bit insane with all the housework, and all the time I thought I'd get back from not commuting is spent on housework and cooking and the horrors of ferrying kids around and getting them ready. Finding their bloody shoes, shoot me!

@Delatron this! In spades.

My DH talked the talk (still does now from time to time) but has never even tried to change his work life to fit with family life. He changed jobs last year, took a tangent in his career to a less well paid job but one that was more family friendly (apparently).

The problem was, although the job changed he did not and so now he pulls all nighters and works at least 6 days a week for less money

I should have pushed him right from the start but I feel it is too late now. I am the default. Anything he does is "helping" me, not part of his job.

I am wary about saying I have it all as I certainly don’t but both DH and I have ‘proper’ careers, 3 kids, no regular family help (although before Covid we had ad hoc help if E.g. our nanny was on hols when we couldn’t be once a year or so). It’s expensive is what it is. We have a very experience nanny and still pay £25k a year (plus all employer NICs and pension) for 20 hours a week and half the school holidays. I work 4 days which buys us a day of me sorting out all the crap. DH is in a very small place and senior enough to tell them where or what he will do. I am in a very big place so E.g. my holidays are truly totally time off and have good benefits. But it is tough and relentless but I am glad we have struggled on.

The post Covid world of more WFH will hopefully help a bit once schools are properly back.

Works for us. We don't have it all but we do both have successful FT careers. For us having a big age gap between our two children has helped. Family-friendly employers. Some family support on an ad hoc basis. Genuinely don't feel like we are having to compromise. Enough £ to have a cleaner. Certainly is tiring though!

Oh and true division of labour at home. Particularly of the actual childcare and child sick days!

Oh and it’s way easier to go for promotions when then are full time nursery or home care (any or childminder) than when they start school. That’s the time to push push push. They care MUCH more when they can remember that you forgot World Book Day etc.

I would say you can only have it all if you are already rich and have family help.

Paying for full time nursery/nanny isn't doing to help anyone if it puts your family in debt. Also if you cannot get or afford wrap around childcare and have inflexible employers, then something will have to give.

I think part of the problem is that you never really know what anything is going to be like until you try it, nor do you know what the future holds. I do think I missed out on some things when my children were young but on balance I think I would still do the same again, because on balance I think the benefits of me working (to us all) have outweight the disadvantages. And my (adult and teen) children agree as they realise their lives would have been very different without my salary.
We chose to both take a hit to our careers but to both keep working, both as that seemed the fairest and the most "future proof" option. In pure financial terms I should have kept working full time and DH stopped or done something very part time but personality wise that wouldn't have worked. As it happens I am probably going to have to give up work for health reasons very soon so it is as well that we didn't put all our eggs in one basket. Plus of course whilst its not something anyone plans to do, relationships do break down. A friend of mine has recently discovered that her "perfect" family life with a man who earned enough for her to "not have to work" was a complete sham. He has now moved in with his mistress, leaving a pile of debt that she didn't know about and she is working a minimum wage job to keep the debt collectors from the door. Obviously that is extreme, but it is always the risk that if one partner is completely financially dependent on the other things can end up very imbalanced. I think there's a lot to be said for maintaining some earning potential.

@Werk It’s so frustrating isn’t it?

He was very much talking the talk ‘if you want to work full time fine, part time, SAHM whatever you want’. Yet he never facilitated me working full time. As he was always travelling and keen on promotion. As his job earnt more. No question ever of reducing hours to help out. Who did the nursery call when kids were ill? Me? Whose fault was that? Mine for giving them my number but if he’s not in the country then 🤷🏼‍♀️.

Wish I’d been on Mumsnet then! I felt I was sick of battling with him so threw in the towel. I still feel some resentment about the lack of support I had when we both worked full time.

It’s hard to argue and say ‘your turn to cook dinner’. When they come home at 9pm or are travelling. It all falls to you and it’s exhausting.

A supportive partner who will take on 50% of all house/kid work is key.

A supportive partner who will take on 50% of all house/kid work is key.

This, 1000 times!

A supportive partner who will take on 50% of all house/kid work is key.

This is DH. But I still think there were other factors in play.

1. He initially had the shorter commute and the workplace nursery, so was responsible for DD/childcare in the early days.
2. I got my career break first, so he stayed put for 4 years whilst I focused on my career.

I wonder if things would’ve worked out differently if one or the other (or both) of these situations had been reversed.

@Delatron again, you are spot on.

Looking back, I should have gone back to work FT and made him do 50% of the child juggling. It is hard to come back from a position once it is entrenched.

Pregnant ladies take note. Start as you mean to go on!

@Orchidsindoors

"Both have a career. Kids are always at childcare/after school care etc."

What's wrong with that though? School ends 3.20, I could be at childminders by about 4.45. Only just over an hour? Then you have all evening with them. Admittedly they would would need childcare in the holidays, but mine loved that. I think people forget that they are at school all day.

4:45 is fairly early though. Many people in career type jobs work longer hours than that, plus a commute.

@formerbabe

From my own experience and observations, you need one or two things.

Lots of family support
Lots of money

If you have both, you're winning. If you have neither, you're screwed career wise.

I think this is accurate

[quote Werk]@Delatron again, you are spot on.

Looking back, I should have gone back to work FT and made him do 50% of the child juggling. It is hard to come back from a position once it is entrenched.

Pregnant ladies take note. Start as you mean to go on![/quote]
this. I went back after 4mths and my husband also had 4mths off shared leave. i appreciate it was possible for us as I earn decent amount but though I'd have liked more time off I wanted everything fair and split from the outset. It is working well so far and we cut eachother slack when needed.

@FreeButtonBee

Oh and it’s way easier to go for promotions when then are full time nursery or home care (any or childminder) than when they start school. That’s the time to push push push. They care MUCH more when they can remember that you forgot World Book Day etc.

This is what I'm expecting. At the moment mine is pre school years so I'm trying to keep up the same level of work I did before albeit I take one day off (though workload not really decreased and I'm flexible). I fully expect to need to pull back a bit when school starts for a few years