To think this is more than hormones with DS?

[MiaThermopolis]

Quick background: DS1 is 10. Eldest of 4 DC. He's a 'gifted' child acedemically - scoring over 95% in 11+ practice tests etc. He is highly logical with a huge 'justice chip' and obessed with things being 'fair'. Avid reader, robotics, lego and nature/animals. no interest in any sport. Good healthy balanced diet. School say he is polite, helpful, well mannered as do other parents when he has gone to play.

The issue is his behaviour/temper at home. For the last 12-18months it seems to be getting worse.

Examples: All DC have a daily tick list - a couple of chores along with the standard 'get up, get dressed, make bed' etc. Chores are on a rota so everyone has the same number of 'set up breakfast' 'empty dishwasher' 'do laundry' etc. it is completely fair and equal. Yet every time we tell DS to get on with his list he growls, huffs, scowls that its not fair. if he then doesnt do it and we ask him again to get on with it he starts screaming in our faces 'I'M DOING IT!' (when he's clearly not) or 'I DONT WANT TO!' etc.

He reacts this way to being asked to do anything that may consitute a 'job' or 'chore'.

Once he's in a temper about something he will then scream at anyone and everyone. For example if one of the other DCs come to ask me a question he will scream 'I DONT CARE!' at them or 'SHUT UP'.

We have a clearly laid out set of consequences - first they loose a token from their reward tube, then screens are removed for the day, then its go to bed early. we are very consistant with this.

It's like a red mist desends and he cannot calm down once something has set him off and he can wizz through all those consequences in minutes as he seems not to hear us or will not respond to us asking him to leave the room to calm down.

He has his own room which we have sorted with him to make it a nice private space and have tried to encourage him to take a break up there when he feels angry but once the red mist descends he wont go.

He can also be violent, hitting walls, slamming doors, growling and screaming in the other DCs faces. he will also lash out has his siblings.

DH and I are at our wits end with it. we are doing all the 'right' things - he gets one on one time with us, he has his own room, he has clear boundaries and consequences but nothing seems to be improving this.

Yet in between he is the sweetest, cleverest, most interesting boy. we joke often that he would be a perfect only child (as a lot of anger starts with his siblings and the perceived 'not fair' devision of work). When we have him on his own he is an absolute delight.

I spoke to his teacher who said it is likely to be hormones and puberty starting but part of me is wondering could it be signs that he has some level of autism? anyone had similar and successfully navigated it?

Help please!!

It might be useful to video an outburst to show Dr and other professionals the out of control stuff? Thoughts?

Nothing you’ve said screams autism to me to be honest. People seem to assume any sort of unusual behaviour= autism these day but there’s a lot more to it. How are his social communication skills? Has he any sensory avoiding/ seeking behaviours? Any obsessions?

Sounds fairly normal...dd , 12, hates lifting a finger at home and will sometimes kick off when asked to do something that she sees as too much effort.

The obsession with things being fair and the anger when asked to do something stand out as autistic traits. How is he with friendships? And sensory issues?

Could be possibly just not like his siblings? I didn’t really like mine at that age either, I was growing up and they still wanted to play toys etc with me and I did just want them to leave me alone! I love them now however, he doesn’t sound autistic to me just like a normal 10 year old boy.

Theres a great book. Think its called the red beast. Theres also a book called the explosive child which is very good.

Doesnt scream asd to me bit he does sound quite highly strung.

If he wont go to his room just walk out of the room he is in and refuse to engage. Then refuse to engage until he goes to his room and does his time out.

I have a gifted only child, he has the same issues regarding over the top emotional responses. We are seeing a therapist for emotional regulation help but it's believed he has ADHD (which emotional dysregulation is a part of).

Your child only having this single issue with emotions doesn't indicate something like ADHD but he certainly needs some help regulating his emotional responses.

My nephew was very similar. Good academically, well behaved in school, a very sweet little boy. But OMG the meltdowns! They were terrifying and became worse as he got older (and bigger than his mum).

He doesn't have a diagnosis but he is more anxious than average, has food issues ("hangry" meltdowns were the worst), difficultly sleeping and definite triggers.

If the chores are a trigger I think you need to approach them differently. There's no point in trying the same approach if it's patently not working.

Can you talk to him when he's calm to come up with another plan together?

I completely agree that there is a trend to jump to any difficult behaviour being autism/adhd etc and i dont want to do that at all. but i do want to be open to checking it out in case.

he doesnt have many friends, he has one friend who he is very close to - similar interests with nature etc but he hasn't mentioned missing any friends during lockdown at all. he's never had more than 2-3 close friends if that as he's not a sporty boy he just takes himself off o look for bugs or similar at school play time.

He very much doesnt get on with DD1 (8) - they are chalk and cheese bit he can still snap at the other two. he doesn't want to be left alone, in fact a lot of the arguements come from him wanting to play with them but then getting annoyed with them if they wont play 'his' way.

He would be addicted to his tablet if he was alllowed (he can play before breakfast during holidays and then 1 hour a day). he would be on it all day if allowed.

He only likes to wear joggers/comfy clothes. hates having his hair brushed, literally screams if i have to nit comb as it hurts his head. he is very obessed with details and is very literally. EG: you tell him not to jump on the bed you'll find him hoping on it as you hadn't specifically said not hop.

the listof jobs was his idea to try and help so i wouldn't have to 'keep going on at him' as it was all written down.

When calms he says he doesn't know what happens but once he's angry everything else makes him angry. he says he doesn't hear us telling him to go away to calm down/go to his room.

I will have look at those books.

Like i said, i dont want to force a label to excuse his behaviour, i just want a way of helping him learn to manage his emotions.

he only sleeps 8 hours, he wont sleep more.

I agree it doesn’t sound like autism.

I think a combination of hormones (10 is a big age for that kicking off) and not knowing how to appropriately express himself.

I would do a lot of work with him on how to identify when he is getting frustrated/angry/overwhelmed and on what are appropriate behaviours from him when that happens. It won’t be instant- it’s an ongoing process. But consistency from you and his dad will pay off here.

You can do things like reflecting back to him. “It’s sounds like you’re frustrated with having to do chores?” And then offering one of the solutions to that you have discussed with hims previously. “Would you like to take 5 minutes to yourself and then talk it through with me? Maybe we can find another way to divide the chores.”

Also be aware of what’s going on prior to him having a tantrum. Is he being asked to do chores when he is engrossed in a game/Lego/book/tv show? Could he have a 10 minute heads up so he can wrap up his game before chore time? Or is there a better time that chores could be done?

oh yes he is very anxious about stuff he cares about. he has a pet which he is obessive about, panicking if i buy a slightly different selection of food for it, worrying if it moves slightly differently etc.

Also you could agree a time with him for doing his chores. Ask him what time he thinks would be best to do them, but also ask him to consider that when he does his chores impacts the rest of the house hold (eg: Dsis can’t fill the dishwasher if he hasn’t emptied it)

And then you could set an alarm clock for him to go off at that time so it isn’t you telling him to do chores, it’s just his time to do chores.

chores are at the same time every day/week as appropriate. i have done that deliberately so he doesn't feel the chores are thrust upon him. yet it still seems to suprise him when after breakfast i say 'lets all get on with our morning jobs' and he starts huffing as he wants to do something else.

He also hates that DD1 and DS2 get their bedroom tidy done quicker as they dont make as much mess as him. somehow this is still not fair. he acknowledges that its his mess but somehow not fair that they have 'less' to do.

If you can afford to, maybe go and see a child psychiatrist to put your mind at ease.

Some things you've mentioned sound very similar to my son - obsession with fairness, lack of interest in friends, prone to explosive rages. But my son struggles at school and therefore isn't a high achiever as he doesn't have the attention span or ability to focus.

DS was diagnosed as having ADHD with "autistic traits".

I have two who tend to this sort of thing.

Eldest was so much better when she was off school, so I think schoolwork pressure was getting to her. We have plans to get her organised together a bit more and get things done in advance.
Youngest is also like this and gets really daunted. Thinks he can’t put his washing away so I offer to help or swap a job for him. So if he’s meant to be tidying his room, I say I’ll do it if he hoovers a room instead (something that requires no thought about how to do it).

All of mine have ASD tendencies and we have been told that even the eldest (with the most) won’t get a diagnosis, so we just work around the behaviours as much as we can.

So can you split the list out a bit so it’s smaller? Make one a getting ready list and then later on have a chore that needs to be done before screen time in the afternoon?

I agree this isn't hormones. Read up on Sensory Processing Disorder, ADHD. Good book called Raising Lions. And Explosive Child worth a read.

yes i'm totally on board with whether its something diagnosable or not, he needs to be helped learn coping mechanisms as he has to survive in the world and you cant fly into rages left right and centre.

I will look up explosive child first as thats had a couple of recommendations.

will look up sensory processing too.

I would make a list of all the traits he has (google ASD and ADHD to help you) and take it to your GP . They will refer you if they think he needs it.

greyish thats interesting. i tend to get flustered if i feel i have too many things to do and try to do bits of each and dont get very far with ticking things off as completed. i've noticed DS also tends to flit and do half a job here, part of a job there so even when he is doing jobs he's not able to tick them off as he doesnt finish one before moving to the next. maybe i need to focus on that with him.

My ds (12) can be similar. He’s coming to an age where he wants a bit more freedom, wants not to be babied and told what to do. He wants to challenge adults re. decisions and hasn’t got the confidence.... and thus the “it’s not fair!!”. I’m trying to let him grow, trying not to nag, but at the same time make him understand that if he wants to be treated older, he needs to behave older.

A lot of it will be hormones though. I'm saying that because he's the eldest and you haven't dealt with teens before - watch 'Kevin the teenager' and see if he's like that. My ds was like this for a bit, but it passes. I wonder if he needs to be treated differently from the younger ones now a bit? It's hard being the eldest I think.

Have you thought about just giving him a bit of space to do his chores at some point during the day when it suits him? eg just saying I'm trusting you to do that, can you make sure it's done at some point by 5pm please

I mean this in the kindest possible way but your rules do sound quite rigid to me. Great with little ones but teenagers/preteens need a bit more flexibility and negotiation, or that's been my experience anyway.

whatis required of them each day is: get dressed, teeth, make bad, open curtains and do 10 minutes instrument practise. On a rota basis one will set breakfast, one empty the dishwasher, one feed the pets. In the evening one will set for dinner, one will help cook and one will feed the pets again. (DD2 is too little to be included yet, only 3!). and the affectionately named 'shit on the stairs' - basically put away anything of yours that i have found loose around the house and put on the stairs during the day.

At the weekend they need to tidy their room, each do one load of laundry and again a rota of hoovering their playroom, cleaning out the pets and sweeping the kitchen floor.

I have tried leaving him to do it 'at some point in the day' but we just get to bedtime and he's done none of it.

We are a large family so there needs to be quite a firm routine/structure otherwise it descends into chaos! i can't have the sort of flexibility my friends with one or 2 kids can!

passthecake that's it! he needs to understand that he has to act grown up if he wants to be treated like one. and that being a teen doesnt get you out of being a functioning member of the family!

I think it's hormones too, sounds normal to me.

Remember, this too shall pass...