To think this is more than hormones with DS?

[MiaThermopolis]

Quick background: DS1 is 10. Eldest of 4 DC. He's a 'gifted' child acedemically - scoring over 95% in 11+ practice tests etc. He is highly logical with a huge 'justice chip' and obessed with things being 'fair'. Avid reader, robotics, lego and nature/animals. no interest in any sport. Good healthy balanced diet. School say he is polite, helpful, well mannered as do other parents when he has gone to play.

The issue is his behaviour/temper at home. For the last 12-18months it seems to be getting worse.

Examples: All DC have a daily tick list - a couple of chores along with the standard 'get up, get dressed, make bed' etc. Chores are on a rota so everyone has the same number of 'set up breakfast' 'empty dishwasher' 'do laundry' etc. it is completely fair and equal. Yet every time we tell DS to get on with his list he growls, huffs, scowls that its not fair. if he then doesnt do it and we ask him again to get on with it he starts screaming in our faces 'I'M DOING IT!' (when he's clearly not) or 'I DONT WANT TO!' etc.

He reacts this way to being asked to do anything that may consitute a 'job' or 'chore'.

Once he's in a temper about something he will then scream at anyone and everyone. For example if one of the other DCs come to ask me a question he will scream 'I DONT CARE!' at them or 'SHUT UP'.

We have a clearly laid out set of consequences - first they loose a token from their reward tube, then screens are removed for the day, then its go to bed early. we are very consistant with this.

It's like a red mist desends and he cannot calm down once something has set him off and he can wizz through all those consequences in minutes as he seems not to hear us or will not respond to us asking him to leave the room to calm down.

He has his own room which we have sorted with him to make it a nice private space and have tried to encourage him to take a break up there when he feels angry but once the red mist descends he wont go.

He can also be violent, hitting walls, slamming doors, growling and screaming in the other DCs faces. he will also lash out has his siblings.

DH and I are at our wits end with it. we are doing all the 'right' things - he gets one on one time with us, he has his own room, he has clear boundaries and consequences but nothing seems to be improving this.

Yet in between he is the sweetest, cleverest, most interesting boy. we joke often that he would be a perfect only child (as a lot of anger starts with his siblings and the perceived 'not fair' devision of work). When we have him on his own he is an absolute delight.

I spoke to his teacher who said it is likely to be hormones and puberty starting but part of me is wondering could it be signs that he has some level of autism? anyone had similar and successfully navigated it?

Help please!!

denny thank you for posting, i'm both sad and heartened that other people are going through the same. it helps to know it's not just us. i'm starting to read the explosive child book as recommended and DH and I are going to have a proper chat tonight after DS goes to bed. Then i plan to talk to DS tomorrow. our plan is to really try to be strict with ourselves about giving DS time to process, plenty of reminders that a change is coming and to allow him as much control as we sensibly can. and the hardest bit of all - not to join him in the red mist.

@itsgettingweird

Style hardly a faff but yours was an over reaction.

I went into kitchen first and was rinsing plate when he picked his up and followed as asked me to go first.

We had gravy and mint sauce and mash. So yes I rinse plates before placing in washing up bowl or your washing plates in water with your dinner in it!

I read it that you do it all the time as in your DC queue every night. No need for the humpy face , Ive never heard of plate rinsing as I just chuck in the dishwasher. Not a fan of washing up !

The Explosive Child book will tell you that something is triggering his outbursts. You need to find the triggers to make progress.

How many DC do you have OP? Not every large family is so structured.

I don't feel like I have a full picture. My hazard guess is that he's attention seeking. He's feeling constrained & pushing the boundaries because there are so many boundaries and the rules matter more than his feelings.

"zero tolerance": Yup, I got that for sure from OP's posts.

Style well you misread and made a judgement so I have every right to be annoyed.
Plus lucky you for being in a position to have a dish washer.
I hate washing up - I have no choice!

[quote AlwaysLatte]@GreyishDays just curious to know if you were given a reason for not being likely to get a diagnosis, do you mean a positive diagnosis, or one at all? It seems very unfair for you to be refused one! [/quote]
@AlwaysLatte I presume it’s underfunding so that the less severe cases aren’t diagnosed.

It was at an epilepsy support session, so not directly in the system. She’d been assessed previously and that had gone nowhere.

@itsgettingweird

Style well you misread and made a judgement so I have every right to be annoyed. Plus lucky you for being in a position to have a dish washer. I hate washing up - I have no choice!

I just misread and wondered why you rinse plates -never heard of it before.

No need to get annoyed .

OP Iave reread what you posted and I do think its rather regimented and a lot of chores for 8/10 year olds.
It sounds stressful to me that they dont have down time after school, mine had a snack and went out to play.
At about 11 they were responsible for their own stuff, getting the bus, making their packed lunch.
They had homework to do after school and I preferred them to concentrate on that.
Could you just stop the chores for a month and see what happens?
I suspect the explosions would stop.

I've found this thread very helpful with regards to my own son, so thank you, OP.

I found this page useful:

https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/what-is-pda-menu/what-is-demand-avoidance/

(Sorry if that's not a clicky link.)

My DS is 13.5, and has always been 'difficult'. Now with added adolescent hormones I'm finding life with him close to unbearable at times. Much of what has been shared on this thread rings true for us also:

• he's incapable of any kind of organisation
• HATES being interrupted and told to do something else: will argue endlessly that it's someone else's turn/it's not fair/why can't I just do it myself...
• he's extremely intelligent & articulate BUT struggles to understand unspoken social norms/appropriate behaviour/language...
• is always well-behaved at school, but is awful at home
• easily becomes obsessive about things (in the past it's been hand-hygiene, then our youngest child potentially getting hurt, then he became super-scrupulous about 'sinful' behaviour.
• easily addicted to playing particular computer games, buying/selling consoles on eBay, etc
• refuses, automatically, on principle, to eat breakfast when asked, ditto reaction to having a shower
• will nag and nag and NAG for something he wants to have/do until he wears us down, employing ever more elaborate arguments/angle (he'll make a fine lawyer or lobbyist one day!)
• finds it impossible to tidy his room, even with me standing over him directing. He does like it when I've done it for him, but seems to have no desire/capacity to do what's necessary by/for himself

I've long wondered if there is something neurological going on, on top of him being very much like his father in his 'difficult' personality (and who also suffers from executive dysfunction, dyslexia, general lack of order in e.g. paperwork/belongings). Reading this thread has made me more sure of it, but I don't think it would be very easy to get a diagnosis, because he's so high-functioning in so many ways, and particularly when not at home

Still, thank you to all those who have shared their experiences on this thread. All power to your elbows!

style i'm not sure where you get that they dont go out to play after school? of course they do!

@MiaThermopolis

style i'm not sure where you get that they dont go out to play after school? of course they do!

Im not really sure tbh probably from the way you have posted lists of chores. I still think its way too much for the ages your DC are though. Its clearly causing a major issue though so would dial it right back for now.

@HBGKC
My DS is 13.5, and has always been 'difficult'. Now with added adolescent hormones I'm finding life with him close to unbearable at times

I don't think it would be very easy to get a diagnosis, because he's so high-functioning in so many ways

Diagnosis is carried out by medical professionals, the tests are designed to see behind the mask. High Functioning is a very misunderstood term, it means having an IQ over 70 with no language impairment, but is often wrongly interpreted in the minds of people it's mentioned to as 'can easily pass for NT'.

How does daily life impact your son?
How would daily life impact your son if you didn't make all the allowances and adjustments for him that you already do?
Kids with AN can be emotionally immature, a rough rule of thumb is their emotional age is about two thirds of their age-peers.

Please consider the benefits of diagnosis for him. The least it can bring is an explanation of why he is different to other kids. The best it can bring (sometimes you have to fight for it) is interventions, support and reasonable adjustments in school, Uni and the workplace to accommodate his needs.

Kids and young people with undiagnosed AN cope until they can't cope any more. At some point, usually a transition to more pressure for independent study and action from school, Uni or work pushes them past their own coping strategies and they don't understand why they can't do what their age peers can do and why their sensory differences happen.

Common times for kids and young adults not being able to cope are KS2 which introduces more independent working, starting secondary which involves different teachers for subjects and navigating buildings to be in the right place at the right time with the right books and kit, the pressure of GCSEs, the change to more independent working for A levels, the self-motivation needed for Uni and work.

Many who go on to be diagnosed as adults say how much easier their earlier lives would have been if they'd known why they were so different to their peers, they often describe their undiagnosed selves as feeling like imposters or aliens because there seems to be a secret code of how to fit in among NT people that they cannot understand but don't know why.

Sorry OP no advice but empathy for sure. Similar issues here with eldest DD 12. Red mists that then dissolve into needing intense reassurance & cuddles. Especially around ‘justice’, routines; has singular friendships & anxieties..Very intelligent too - she has never perceived herself as a child - always wants to hang out with the adults, especially me- I’ve posted before about feeling claustrophobic around her as she wants to be involved in my entire life constantly... too much to go into really.. but reassuring to know we’re not alone. My question is if you go through all the diagnostic process, what does it really achieve? I feel my DD has ‘traits’ but certainly functions fine most of the time.. We’ve toyed with counselling but fear she won’t open up enough for anyone to help her.. & how do you find the right person?