To be worried this will change our relationship

[topandtailem]

Good relationship with parents in law. See them regularly, they dote on our 3YO and help with childcare (at their request, we’ve always been clear we’re happy to put her in nursery more often). I’ve always been aware that MIL doesn’t necessarily agree with everything we do or parenting choices we make but that’s up to her and we’ve always rubbed along okay.

They recently promised us money to help with buying a bigger house in a better area. Now, after we’ve sold our house, had an offer accepted, paid for a survey and paid for mortgage arrangement fee, they’ve withdrawn the offer.

That’s fine, they’re within their rights and although I’m gutted, this is one of the reasons you have to be careful accepting money from others. I get it. I can move on.

But the reasons they’ve given basically boil down to them thinking that it isn’t the right house for our daughter and she won’t be happy there and they can’t condone our decision.

This is what I keep dwelling on. We have chosen that house purely based on it being the perfect house for our family. Great area, great schools, lovely garden. Do my parents in law think I’m a bad parent? That they need to intervene to stop us from making a selfish decision that will hurt our child?

So putting the house and the money aside, how do I get past this? I want a good relationship with them but when we spoke on the phone last night she just refused to be moved and said she wasn’t making the decision lightly and she hadn’t slept in days. She just wants what is best for her grand daughter. Which to me is reiterating that point that we can’t be trusted to make that choice ourselves. I’m not sure I can easily forgive her for this.

If it matters, we’re early thirties, gainfully employed, daughter is thriving.

If it were me I’d find this very difficult to move past OP. Sorry if you’ve said this but can you still buy the house without the money? Or has the whole chain fallen apart?

It’s very controlling. It was a few years ago that I saw someone of MN say ‘gifts with strings attached aren’t gifts, they are opportunities to exert control’ and it was like a lightbulb going on in my head because I suddenly understood so much about how my own father treats me.

I totally understand why you say you don’t want to curtail contact with your DD; but the fact is, that’s why they think they’re entitled to exert control over you. They think they’re in loco parentis and that you somehow ‘owe’ them. We’ve learnt the hard way never to accept anything from my parents. Money, childcare, even dog-sitting(!) - it all comes with an expectation of control and ‘gratitude’ in return.

I’m not saying go NC, because I agree that would harm your little girl, but I would gradually increase her days at nursery if I were you.

We had a similar-ish situation with my parents. Fortunately, we never got as far as accepting or making an offer. But they said they wanted to help us buy a new place. Great, we thought (in our naïveté). Then the conditions starting piling on. It needs to be somewhere with lots of outdoor space. It needs to be somewhere with an annexe where we can stay, and come and go as we please. We would want to be joint owners of the property and have our names on the deeds. We don’t want the property to be round here, where you live now. Why don’t you relocate to X place or Y place (naming ‘holiday’-type locations hundreds of miles from where we live now, where we’d never find work - think the Lake District or Cornwall) so that we can come and stay and have a mini-holiday.

Needless to say we didn’t let it go any further.

Are you taking yr dd further away with this house I'm struggling to understand why GP would think it's detrimental to your dd unless she is a teen leaving friends or your taking them much further away.

But what ever. Don't take the money. You will be paying for it conditionally forever.

To be honest, it's actually really difficult to be believe. She doesn't like the house, has vague concerns about a pond that is easily filled in? It makes no sense.
This is what I was thinking. I wonder if there's actually something else going on here - that they've got cold feet at the last minute; one of them wanted to give the money and the other didn't, that kind of thing; or they've just got scared about finances for some reason - so when things got real they suddenly pulled out? Then tried to make out it's your fault so you can't be as annoyed with them?

Whatever the case, make sure you never rely on them for anything.

Ok. I've seen the pond issue. Ridiculous. That's just an excuse.

I think some people are maybe overreacting a bit here, suggesting moving away, low contact etc.

OP you said you’d always felt that maybe they didn’t agree on all your parenting choices, but you all rubbed along okay. Now you know where a boundary is - if they think they have leverage they will try to use it. They didn’t have leverage over childcare because you were happy to use a nursery. You have control of this situation and you know that they will try to take it if they can. So don’t let them. You’ve had a shot across the bow, you can be on alert from now on.

I can’t see any reason - yet - for added drama, flouncing out of the area and withdrawing contact.

Things might well settle down again and you know not to give them an inch. If they try any shenanigans again you can reassess.

Rather an aside to the real issues - but -

I always feel a little sad when I hear of people filling in garden ponds to protect children. If you can make them safe another way, they are lovely for children to grow up with, watching fish in the pond, birds that come to the pond, and all the other wildlife they attract. We moved to a house with a pond not far from the patio doors with a baby and a just 3 yr old. Strict supervision in the garden at first, until we were able to have a grid fitted over the pond. There are multiple makes and I don't recall who did ours (kids are teenagers now!), but it was something like this

www.headsquared.co.uk/services/pond_safety_grid#.X0YhrWySnD4

If you can afford to install such a grid, a pond can be safely enjoyed.

SHE just refused to be moved and said SHE wasn’t making the decision lightly and SHE hadn’t slept in days. SHE just wants what is best for her grand daughter.

Honestly, my blood pressure just went up.

The shit parent here is your MIL. If she was a decent mother she would be supportive of you both and if she had brought her son up properly then he wouldn't be the fuckwit she is professing him to be.

Your MIL is MASSIVELY undermining you to the point you are questioning yourself. You need to not take another penny off her and you need to stop having her look after your DD. You need to owe her nothing. When she gives her opinion, have stock answers ready like I did.

Oh do you, that's nice.
Hmm, really.
Well, we all have our own way of doing things don't we.
Well, this is how we do things in MY family. (My favourite)

Teach your MIL that when she sticks her nose in and causes you anguish that she is the one who ultimately loses out. If my MIL did that to me, I wouldn't speak to her again.

Is the MiL over-concerned about accidents happening to children? Perhaps the house has other features beside the pond that frighten her.
(I don't like toddlers having free access to ponds after knowing someone who lost a child that way. It stays with you.)

She should have mentioned this earlier though. Withdrawing the money was a nasty trick.

Great advice from @Zilla1.

I'd resist the temptation to punish. Their timing was horrible (controlling!) and its bloody annoying but end of the day its their money. You've probably had a lucky escape. Really hope you can still get the house without pushing yourself too hard on the mortgage.

Practically this will effect the relationship, your in-laws probably know this and its why they've had sleepless nights. Time heals all wounds as they say, and probably when the dust has settled and you've had time to move on the relationship can get onto a more even footing once again. I'd be weary of future offers of any kind of help however, they have shown their colours here.

As a grandparent it is not for her to decide what is right or wrong for your dd, unless it impacts her safety in some way. The very fact she even feels she can tell you what to do, what is best, what house to buy means she has already overstepped so many boundaries that should be there.

If you don't put some boundaries in place you have years of problems . Money is the easiest way to do it, but there are other ways.

Next they will be offering school fees but only if you agree to send dd to a certain school, clothes, food, holidays, sports and values. It will never stop, your child will be stifled by their interference, your parenting abilities stunted as you try to raise her how you see fit. And what if they prefer to smack 'naughty' children, or punishing or rewarding your child in a way that differs from your values?

The house could be the tip of iceberg.

Op, the house may have opened your eyes to who they are, you will need to be very vigilant from now on. Control dressed up as kindness/generous offers is a well known tactic.

Honestly I would not try to get past this. They have shown you their true colours, and you need to see that. Their behavior is controlling and despicable. I'd not in any way rely on them every again. So yes they can see your child socially (as long as they are not attempting to be coercive and controlling with her) and maybe babysit if it's easy to cancel but I'd never rely on them again (i.e. don't have them look after your child whilst you guys are at work as they can't be trusted to stick to their word). I'd be polite but pull back from anything more intimate. I hope you do still get to buy the house OP. It's great when you find the perfect place for your family!

OP Can your own parent(s) lend you money so you can proceed? Even if you have to pay it back in stages over time? 🌹

I'd really struggle to get over that. It would take a very long time before I trusted them again.

Going forward you need to agree with your DH that there will be no accepting cash input to anything specific - houses, school fees, driving lessons, uni fees. If they want to gift cash then fine, but no discussion and no relying on them for anything.

You're being very calm stating you won't change their access to your DD. It would be a while before I allowed unsupervised access to someone who had critisised my parenting so strongly that they thought I was buying a home that would make my DD unhappy. What of your rules and ways do they totally ignore normally when you are not around given they clearly think they know your DD better than you?

I'd also be moving hell and high water to buy that house without them.

Thats an awful thing to do to you.But at least now you know what they are like.Put your dd in nursery,and just pulles me think what else they might have been doing.

This is really sad OP - for all of you. It clearly has impacted your in-laws a great deal too as your MiL is having sleepless nights about it.

I think they got ahead of themselves. They thought they could offer to do something nice and didn't realise themselves the strings attached that it came with.

They've got you all in a pickle through their lack of insight about their own reactions to the situation, and I'm sure they are also very worried about the possible consequences.

Money always complicates things and anyone thinking of gifting large amounts should try to do cleanly, without expectations, strings or judgements...but that is also a very hard thing to do.

Although it will be hard try not to think too badly of them, and try to keep relations good for your daughter.

You are being very kind in the circumstances. Personally I think it’s very very poor to make a promise and then back down at the final hour. I also agree with you that it’s unbelievably patronising to suggest that they have the ability to weigh up the pros and cons of houses better than you can or have a better grasp of your DDs needs.

Personally I couldn’t continue to be in a relationship like that and I would move DD to more hours at nursery. But you’re obviously much more forgiving!

I'd literally never talk to them about the house move again unless they ask, and then be a bit 'yes, it's going well, DD is very excited about it' etc.

Never mention the money ever again. If they bring it up, which they probably will, say 'oh it's ok, that's very kind, but maybe save it for DD if you like?'

As many children drown in the bath than in a garden pond. (Rospa)

Does she have a bath?

What is it about the house they think would be detrimental to your daughter? Is it on an incredibly busy road or next to an electricity substation or on the doorstep to a nuclear power station? Surely they told you what it was and maybe if you/we knew that it might help?

Not that this behaviour is acceptable but I know that I once liked a property and it was next to an electricity substation and my parents were apoplectic at the thought I would buy it. I didn’t (for other reasons) and they were not lending me money either but they were very concerned about us possibly purchasing it,

I think even if you buy it without their money you need to understand what it is about the property they feel is not desirable so you can explain to them your reasons for liking the property as if you buy it would it mean they wouldn’t visit?

If it was me I would also explain to them sensitively that their behaviour Is rather controlling, or could be seen as controlling by others looking in. That you understand that it is their money but you believed it to be being lent to you with no conditions and so to avoid family relationships being tested in this way again and to avoid your MIL wrestling with her conscious you’ll avoid things like this happening again.

And from then on tell them your decisions rather than involving them in the conversation.

You also need to explain to them that your MIL claims to have had sleepless nights about this and you are sorry for that but the result of them telling you this means that you in turn are suffering from upset as you feel they are questioning your integrity and your efforts to do the best for your daughter.

This needs to be discussed and got out otherwise it will set in like a rot and completely ruin your relationship.

Just wanted to add OP that I have a very controlling and manipulative MIL who would pull stunts like this. She played many games but the final straw for me was when we asked her to have our DC ONCE for a really important event and then reneged on it at the very last minute for the reason of "I don't want to" and it cost us money and a good friendship. I refused to have her do anything for us ever again. I made sure she has no power over me whatsoever.

Years later I am in a position where I have no Fear, Obligation or Guilt when it comes to helping out my PIL. They are not my problem. Sounds awful, but you reap what you sow.

I'd be thinking there was something they weren't telling me. Such as...the house is close to someone they want nothing to do with for some reason.

Given that you have already sold your house - have they by any chance suggest you come and stay with them while you find another house?

Take this as a blessing in disguise. They have shown their controlling ways and you will do well to remember that for the future. No, you can't forget this, you would be stupid to. They have shown their colours and all you can do is be civil and have boundaries.

My in laws are very similar. They live abroad, which is a blessing but they use their money to manipulate things. For example, my MIL buys a ton of designer clothes for the kids which is completely non practical and have told her so many times, but she refuses to give us the money to buy what we want. It's all about control. She wants her grandkids dressed in a certain way and she will not listen to what they actually need. The kids don't like the clothes and they end up getting donated. I barely speak to her anymore and we rarely visit. They are impossible to deal with.

Btw- A poster suggested that they may have had cold feet because of the funds .The magnitude of what they were going to have to contribute may have dawned on them.
If that is the case, it is cruel of them to blame your choice of house as a reason to back out at the last minute .
As others have said, don’t discuss money with them again and put your dd in a nursery.
Don’t ask them for anything?
If they want to buy their granddaughter presents or gifts for birthdays or Christmas- no problem. However, don’t accept funds for major things such as school fees

I also think this is very controlling, and personally my relationship with the ILs would never be the same . But I do think you are right not to make it into a fight or let it affect your dd. So I would be polite but probably colder with them, and going forward I would not involve them in any decisions that were about my family. So no more discussions about houses , schools etc- because at the end of the day it’s not really their business.
I am in the position of being able to give my dc some money towards helping with property. Once I have decided the amount and given it to them - it is theirs to use as they want to. It’s a gift after all