To think you're not allowed to be proud of breastfeeding any more....

[TheatreJunkie84]

NOT a breast is best thread.

I've had the journey from hell. Tongue tie, painful feeds, thrush, not gaining weight, shitty latch, literally everything except low supply....but here I am 3 months in still going, on a combination of formula, pumped milk and boob.

I posted on a local baby group today a picture of me feeding, with a caption about how proud I was to still be going at nearly 3 months despite all the crap...thanking my local group and its peer supporters for their role in keeping me going and encouraging others to seek their help as they were so lovely and wonderful.

It started off well...messages of congrats and other stories of the peer supporters helping out new mums. Suddenly out of nowhere I got called arrogant and told I should have some respect for all the mums that choose to formula feed and I shouldn't throw be throwing it down everyones necks. Before I knew it loads of other mums all joined in, basically saying breastfeeding is nothing to be proud of and I should shut up. Things along the lines of 'big whoop you can feed your baby I cant so this makes you better than me? Piss off.'

I quickly deleted it, feeling really ashamed of myself. I'm on the verge tears now every time I think about it. Am I being unreasonable here? I honestly wanted to give up so many times....but the local group kept me going and if posting about my success can encourage other mums to seek their help then that's surely only a good thing?

I don't know.

Thank you everyone who has contributed to the discussion - and also to those who seem to have merely commented to carry on the 'whoop-di-doo' sentiments put forth by commenters on the fb post

Just thought I'd pop in to say this again. MY fb post was not intended for a goad. It was a thanks and a signpost to the local peer support group..who were integral to me keeping on going. I was hoping to point new mums towards their help.

To those here who continue to say I shouldn't feel proud...I really hope that one day you get to experience the same level of pride I feel every day when I think about what I've gone through. Because honestly - I will ALWAYS feel proud. And some MN keyboard warrior is never going to to change that.

@Parker231

@VeniceQueen2004 - I positively choose to use formula from day one. I don’t have any doubts or concerns about my decision as it was a good one without any guilt. I am proud in the same way as I would expect someone who made the decision to bf. In the big picture, it’s not important. Life moves on.

That is fantastic and good for you. This is a message that needs to be heard more. I hate the thought of women trying to bf because they feel like they have to to avoid being judged, and have to make 'excuses' to stop when they simply don't want to do it. It just muddies the waters and makes it even harder to support mums who do want to bf, as well as fostering all this animosity between mothers. This is also why the breast is best message needs to die in a fire, right next to fed is best. The last thing this war needs is more battle cries.

@Welikebeingcosy

YANBU- It's like telling an athlete they can't celebrate their medal because people without legs will be made to feel not good enough.

Exactly! I don't think I will ever run a marathon. It's hard, and I am not fit enough, nor do I particularly have the inclination to put in the hours to get fit enough.

Doesn't mean other people who do make the choice to give it a go and succeed shouldn't be proud. Their pride at their circumstance is not a direct comment on me and mine.

I had a tough start to breast feeding and a very rocky first few months. I persisted and fed DD for as long as she and I wanted to (we did natural weaning i.e. as she stopped being inclined to nurse rather than with a decision to stop, so was later than some may feel 'normal'). I am proud of this. It was hard, and I did it because I felt it was important.

I won't ever say so publicly, as it may offend someone, but it really shouldn't.

Yanbu. Formula feeding is entirely culturally normal in this country. It's what most people do. And yet every time anyone ever speaks about breastfeeding you're somehow oppressing this massive majority. Well done for overcoming your difficulties and, yes, it's fine for you to be proud.

It's not our cultural norm to talk about personal pride in your achievements, especially where there are other choices or value judgements attached to the other option.

I earn a high salary and I run an organisation that has made great progress, including specific personal achievements. I have the highest profile and pay out of most of my friend groups.

I wouldn't post anything on Facebook about my pride in my achievements and how hard it's been. It's just not the right place. What does my pride have to do with my friends? If you really wanted to post, I'd have personally stuck to the point of gratitude.

If you feel 'proud' what does that make those who can't/don't want to breast-feed,

They can be proud of something else? There really isn't a need to assume that someone being proud makes anyone else - whether they've done it or not - anything specific. That's entirely unrelated. Assuming it's a judgement makes no sense to me.

A lot of people say they're proud of their kids, that doesn't mean childless/childfree people have nothing to be proud of and should be ashamed of themselves.

A lot of people are proud of their qualification, doesn't mean people who don't have them should be ashamed of themselves.

A lot of people are proud of their work, that doesn't mean people who can't do that work or can't work should be ashamed of themselves.

A lot of people discuss being so happy and proud to have a child who sleeps through the night, especially if they've had months-years of really difficult nights, that doesn't mean people still going through that should be ashamed.

We all deal with shit, there is no need to invent more shit as judgements just because someone else is happy with something they've done through a lot of difficulties.

I think this is a case of knowing your audience.

If you had to post photos and talk about how proud you are of yourself then keep it to people who will be happy for you, like your friends list.

If you want to let people know about the help available, then write a post saying that x y and z is available and helped you and post it in the group.

Posting about something so personal to you that other people would have wanted to do, and maybe haven't for whatever reason, along with a photo, could be seen as insensitive.

no wonder BFing rates are dire in this country, you cannot talk about it without being boasty, smug, apparently insinuating that FFing mums are shit.

I know. Its not good. I did both ff and bf with different children for different reasons. I don't feel shit for needing to formula feed when I did. I'd hate to put other people off trying to do something that is undoubtedly better for babies, just because I couldn't achieve breastfeeding it in the way I would have liked to.

God forbid you EVER put up a picture of yourself or others enjoying an icecream or out for a meal in social media.
Well no those photos should be banned because they're so voasty. Look at me and my kid eating ice cream. I'm so much better than those people who can't afford one, don't want one or don't like one. I mean my kid has sensory issue so won't touch the stuff so I'd definitely go list on the picture and say how rude and boastful she is with her kid and his ice-cream eating.

I think you'll look back on your post in a few years and cringe, OP.

With my first I endured absolute hell - 15% weight loss, tongue tie, 6x mastitis, inverted nipples, all sorts. I pushed through it all and fed him til he was a year old. I might've made a post like yours at the time
But now, with the benefit of hindsight (and a non-sleep-deprived brain), I can see the obsession with continuing to bf was at the cost of my own mental health, potentially my son's health as he was often hungry, and also any social activities for us as a family.

When things were going the same way with DC2, I'm glad I had the sense to bottle feed her after her first readmission to hospital and her failed tongue tie snip, rather than continue half-starving her and putting the whole family through months more misery.

So while I can understand your "pride" at persevering with bf, I think there's a sense of smuggery there, combined with a lack of self-awareness. If you really posted on the group along the lines of your post in the OP, it sounds like it's all about you. How you overcame hardship, etc, and persevered. There's a lack of understanding there as regards the fact that many people stop bfing because they know it's not the right thing for their babies and their families; not because they somehow weren't "tough enough" to cope...

Yes bf is great when it goes well. But the issue is nuanced. Sometimes breast isn't always best. Public one-upmanship as regards toughing it out against all odds is just weirdly self-obsessive IMO.

I didn't breast feed either of mine because I didn't fancy it - I wanted my partner to take on a full 50% of every aspect of child care from the beginning and I wanted to be able to involve their grandparents, aunts, uncles, and our friends in their lives as much as possible (unlike many posters on mumsnet who seem to want to call social services on any grandparent who has the temerity to ask if they can watch the baby for a few hours). My children spent the odd weekend with their grandparents from the time they were tiny and entire summers on my parent's farm with their cousins by the time they were a bit older. It was (and continues to be) great for them and for me and their dad and it makes me incredibly sad to see kids who never spend a moment away from their parents. But anyway, back to the point, I have basically been accused of child abuse by breast-is-best advocates when I made the mistake of admitting I didn't even try to breast feed. It's a minefield. Just leave the group, you don't need that nonsense.

Posting about something so personal to you that other people would have wanted to do, and maybe haven't for whatever reason, along with a photo, could be seen as insensitive.

Equally it could help others that are struggling with bf to keep going knowing that it wasn't only them struggling. And thats a good thing right? I don't feel the need to be offended or unpleasant about it. Just move on.

Of course you can be proud OP. You can be proud of whatever you want to be.
Maybe just keep it off SM though, if other people's reactions bother you.

You should feel very proud @TheatreJunkie84. You have done the best for your baby, and it's not been easy. Well done for persevering. I don't think there's anything wrong in acknowledging the sacrifice you make and giving credit where due.

It's not the only way you can do your best for your child, it's one (in the bigger picture, small) area of life, but in the first few months, it's pretty all-consuming.

@DancingCatGif

But the way you talk about it, you make it so clear you think it's better

I said it's harder. not that it's better. Where do I say it's better?

I think you'll look back on your post in a few years and cringe, OP<

What a silly and mean thing to say. Nothing about it is cringe, breastfeeding is fantastic and feeling proud of it is not unusual or weird in any way. If you see it as 'oneupmanship' then you are the one with the problem, and from your post it seems as though you are taking someone else's pride and ability to BF personally because you have a problem with your own choices.

They are jealous, ignore them.

@TheatreJunkie84 “ MY fb post was not intended for a goad. It was a thanks and a signpost to the local peer support group..who were integral to me keeping on going. I was hoping to point new mums towards their help. ”

You could have done this by posting a review. It didn’t need a picture of you feeding. Also by saying the comments ‘started off well’ as in they were all praising you - it seems that you were looking for compliments and praise. This is the problem with people expecting validation and lauding of their actions on social media.

@burritofan

Our culture is woefully deficient in images of and public breastfeeding, leading to a weird and puritanical and sexualised view of this natural behaviour. We need all the images and proud public breastfeeders we can get! Yes! The main message on this thread seems to be “FGS, don’t TALK about it or share PICTURES of it, it’s PRIVATE.” Why should it be? Any minute we’ll get the “I hate mothers who flop one out to feed” and “Breastfeeding is fine for babies but weird for toddlers imo” comments. Even though the vast, vast majority of babies in the UK are formula fed, with only 1% of six-month-olds still exclusively breastfed, it’s breastfeeding that people are asked to keep under wraps or shut up about.

(Not a particular breastfeeding gong-banger, either [bap banger?], and I don’t think comments like “FF mothers are just jealous” are helpful, kind or true.)

Lol, “flop one out” is by far my favourite expression on these types of threads!

I’m feeding both a newborn and a toddler (oh the horror!) and I quite happily “flop” both boobs out wherever, whenever.

Zero fucks given.

They sound rather jealous and that they took your post out of context, so I would ignore them. Don't bloody cry over these trolls. This is why I'm quite secretive about feeding both my kids for quite a long time. I actually do it because I'm very lazy and can't be arsed to wean and both kids seem/seemed happy to carry on. I never posted it or talked about it with anyone, but I was lucky enough to have no issues with bf, so the idea of FF seemed to be much more effort to me.

There are some weird people out there who take offense to this or want to turn this into a debate, but that is their problem.

@DancingCatGif

*I didn't have obstacles. I chose not to. And I'm sick of being made to feel like unless you have a reason, you must breastfeed.

I tried it, hated it, stopped it. And if that makes me a shit mum, then sign me up.*

Bloody good for you! As I say I wish this message would get out more. The more women who want to ff publicly champion that choice, the less women who want to bf will feel like it is an impossible or almost impossible task when looking at the stats. Plus it will make women who want to more confident to choose ff rather than force themselves to bf.

I'm sure our children are just as well-loved and well-nourished as each other.

Ugh, that sounds awful of them. Well done you for persevering! I think a lot of people forget, PARTICULARLY when it comes to boobing your kid, that being proud of what your body has achieved =//= judging other people for how they feed their kid. They see any opinion as a judgment if they did something different.
I've been breastfeeding for nearly 4 years straight now (all through my second pregnancy and tandem for several months) and damn right I'm proud of what my body has achieved!

@KarenFitzkaren

Posting about something so personal to you that other people would have wanted to do, and maybe haven't for whatever reason, along with a photo, could be seen as insensitive.

Equally it could help others that are struggling with bf to keep going knowing that it wasn't only them struggling. And thats a good thing right? I don't feel the need to be offended or unpleasant about it. Just move on.

Exactly.

Because breastfeeding rates are so low, we often don’t hear about the struggles involved in breastfeeding - thrush, poor latch, blocked ducts, mastitis. Knowing that what you are experiencing is common, that others are going through it and have come out on the other side makes all the difference.

fellrunner85 is right. Why be proud of stubbornly refusing to change your approach when your baby wasn't putting on weight, was struggling to feed due to tongue tie, and you were in pain? That's not some noble sacrifice, it's idiotic.

To those here who continue to say I shouldn't feel proud...I really hope that one day you get to experience the same level of pride I feel every day when I think about what I've gone through. Because honestly - I will ALWAYS feel proud. And some MN keyboard warrior is never going to to change that.
To be fair, you have no idea what other posters have gone through, and in a few years time you really wont care. Its the type of thing that doesnt stay with you honestly, as i said above your child will be running around the playground and nobody will be able to tell if he was breastfed or not.