To think you're not allowed to be proud of breastfeeding any more....

[TheatreJunkie84]

NOT a breast is best thread.

I've had the journey from hell. Tongue tie, painful feeds, thrush, not gaining weight, shitty latch, literally everything except low supply....but here I am 3 months in still going, on a combination of formula, pumped milk and boob.

I posted on a local baby group today a picture of me feeding, with a caption about how proud I was to still be going at nearly 3 months despite all the crap...thanking my local group and its peer supporters for their role in keeping me going and encouraging others to seek their help as they were so lovely and wonderful.

It started off well...messages of congrats and other stories of the peer supporters helping out new mums. Suddenly out of nowhere I got called arrogant and told I should have some respect for all the mums that choose to formula feed and I shouldn't throw be throwing it down everyones necks. Before I knew it loads of other mums all joined in, basically saying breastfeeding is nothing to be proud of and I should shut up. Things along the lines of 'big whoop you can feed your baby I cant so this makes you better than me? Piss off.'

I quickly deleted it, feeling really ashamed of myself. I'm on the verge tears now every time I think about it. Am I being unreasonable here? I honestly wanted to give up so many times....but the local group kept me going and if posting about my success can encourage other mums to seek their help then that's surely only a good thing?

I don't know.

This is why I have joined breastfeeding groups rather than baby groups. More in common with the mums at this stage (still breastfeeding at 8 months and am so proud of it as it took a lot of effort).

"The breastfeeding rates in this country are truly abysmal, one of the worst in the world"

Maybe women don't feel pressured to do it in the same way?

Why is it a bad thing if women don't breastfeed?

And how about the people who didn't have the support you did? So they couldn't reach this "achievement"? You're basically saying "you didn't do as well as me" and when it comes to children, people are going to be spiky about it

Not at all. Almost every bf mother i know is also very attuned to the obstacles in society and postnatal support which make it so hard for women to bf. In the same way, I as an overweight person with problem eating am aware that contributing to my overweight is an enormously powerful lobby of vested interests and a work-obsessed culture which promotes low-cost, high-fat high-sugar high-carb addictive fast food, which is a contributing factor to my struggle with my weight (although I hate to add the struggles faced to achieve bf goals for new mothers is much much greater imo).

It's not about being better than anyone else. It's about being proud of what I've been able to achieve. In the same way that I'm proud of completing my degree even though there are people who couldn't even contemplate going to university due to the obstacles placed in their way by society, background etc. I'm not better than that person; it's not a comparative thing. I'm better than I might have been if I hadn't tried as hard as I could. That's all the pride is.

@SnuggyBuggy

It's really not.

Do some research before you spout your nonsense.

It is deficient in both iron and vitamin d, and the studies that show It's better are massively flawed

That's the problem with social media - you're not filtering what you say to a target audience and may end up poking with a sharp stick what is a sore point for other people.

Keep your proud moments to those who know are able to share your joy. Keep them away from those they will make feel rubbish. Like we all used to in the days before social media.

Firstly I should say if someone is happy with their achievement (in any area) then I'm pleased for them and wouldn't give negative comments on such a post on SM or a forum. But I think natural childbirth and bf seem to be topics that spark debate and have "devotees" on both sides. Personally I had an elective C-Section which I paid for privately and formula fed (twins) and that was the right choice for me and us. Whilst YANBU to be pleased about continuing to bf, I think it will spark some unkind comments and I wouldn't post just so they don't have the opportunity.

@VeniceQueen2004

I didn't have obstacles. I chose not to. And I'm sick of being made to feel like unless you have a reason, you must breastfeed.

I tried it, hated it, stopped it. And if that makes me a shit mum, then sign me up.

Ah such a contentious issue op!

Yes, you are allowed to be proud! I gave up at 3 months with dc1 and really regretted it. We also had some quite serious issues, including us both being hospitalised at the same time, in separate wards, which obviously made feeding very hard. She was being tube fed as well, so obviously it was quite literally impossible to feed from the breast, had to pump.

With dc2 I battled on till just shy of a year, mainly expressing breast milk and feeding from a bottle due to tongue tie and then breast refusal / bottle preference. Barely used formula at all though. Am I proud? Yes, actually, I am. I know not everyone can do this and I know not everyone chooses to, however I really wanted to and I worked very hard to do it. I also know the heartbreak of wanting to do it and not being able to - bearing in mind that this pretty much happened to me with both dcs. I wanted to EBF from the breast and it didn't happen either time.

Having said that, if we had another baby with any of the same issues, would I do it all again? Tbh, no, I don't know that I would, as it was a huge commitment, pumping many times a day at the beginning, three times till about 8 months and then twice a day till we stopped. Just breastfeeding with occasional formula top ups with dc1 was so, so much easier, even though I gave up at 3 months.

If I could just breastfeed that would always be my first choice though. Has some definite benefits for mum and child health and also, just the convenience!

Not planning any more dcs though, so this is irrelevant.

Of course you're "allowed" to feel proud, don't be silly.
But posting pictures on the baby group for public adulation is wanky in the extreme.
What response were you hoping for; assuming the other members are at much the same stage that you are?

I've been on both sides of this.

On such a highly emotive subject, your message is going to make some people feel like shit.

You're perfectly within your rights to post on a general forum about how proud you are of yourself but the flip side of the coin is that, of the numerous people whom you remind of their own failure, one or two are going to express their upset in a way you might not like and they are also perfectly within their rights to do so.

I would either take that in my stride or choose to keep the yay I'm proud of myself comments to a breastfeeding group.

Don’t look to others to validate or applaud your choices or experiences. Have confidence in yourself.

@Pumpkinnose has it spot on - and it’s good advice for life in general. If you’ve persevered and achieved something you wanted to, then that’s undoubtedly something to be proud of. It’s the seeking affirmation from others that’s the problem here - because (I’m sure wrongly from what you’ve said) others have interpreted that seeking of affirmation as an attempt to be negative about them and their choices. You should feel proud of yourself- no problem with that. It’s the posting on the Internet that’s the problem!

@VeniceQueen2004 it's the idea that because you 'pushed yourself to your limit' that you are better than me, who pushed myself in other ways, but dont post about it all over facebook for the world to see how great I am. In your eyes, you are a better mother than me because you bf and I didnt. People dont want to spend their time being reminded that the general consensus is that bf moms are better than ff moms. No woman is about to say 'I am so proud I ff' because the backlash would be horrific. We are told, mostly by bf mums, that we are less, so to keep our mouths shut and clap for the bf moms.

In reality, a mothers job is to make sure a baby is fed. That's it. That's the main thing. When are we going to stop pitting mothers against each other based on bf. Its infuriating.

Struggling to keep up with the comments so please bear with!

@dwiz8 comments like this were the reason I came on to mumsnet to make this post. I'm proud because to some women it isn't a 'basic human function' It's something I managed to do after months of pain, sleepless nights, peer support and counselling. Nothing about it was 'basic'

I don't for one second believe I am a better person for getting through it. My post was to make sure others knew about the support available in our area....it was the core reason I DID get through it. In hindsight the photo was probably a bad idea. I guess I just didn't want the post get lost!

You should be proud! You persevered on something you really wanted to do. You know probably a lot of people would have given up.

I did the same :) Didn't have milk for DD1 so she was given the bottle and slowly managed to get her to breastfeed over a period of a couple of months. At 4yo she still asks for it even though I've weaned her.

People are silly over the breastfeeding issue. It saddens me.... It should be considered normal like walking! And some people do have struggle stories about having to relearn to walk! And they should be proud of their efforts regardless of other people's experience.

True. Because others just see it as a dig at them. Even though they may not have even tried and just refused point blank to breastfeed they will still see it as a dig at them. People don't like to be made inferior or you are more superior to them in any way. Weird really as it wouldn't be the same if you got a new kitchen and they didn't etc

*"The breastfeeding rates in this country are truly abysmal, one of the worst in the world"

Maybe women don't feel pressured to do it in the same way?

Why is it a bad thing if women don't breastfeed?*

The vast majority of mothers indicate at birth that they want to bf and initiate bf.

The vast majority of those mothers stop and say this was not a free choice. The most common reason given in surveys for cessation of bf in the early weeks and months is 'not enough milk'.

Biologically this simply cannot be the case, as if that were true we would see a comparable decline in other countries that better support bf. So instead what we have is mothers who want to bf but have not been enabled to do so - either because they are not being given the right environment and support to do so, or they are being given incorrect information by the people they should be able to trust (how many expectant mums join a 'feeding advice' page set up by C&G, Aptamil and co)? Or possibly mothers try it, don't like it, but for whatever reason don't feel able to simple say with confidence "BF isn't for me, I want to ff".

None of those situations is an acceptable outcome for mothers. Mothers either wanting to breastfeed and being let down, or mothers not wanting to breastfeed but feeling compelled to pretend that they did want to but physically couldn't.

I would be perfectly happy in a world where 99% of mums ff if those were 99% of mums declaring they had made a positive and empowered choice to do so and were happy with it. But that is not what we see. Something, or several somethings, in our feeding culture are badly awry and as long as that's the case mothers are being badly let down.

Why is this such a big deal? I can't imagine caring about how anyone else feeds their child, as long as they're fed. My choices don't impact others, and theirs don't impact mine. Just another stick for us women to beat ourselves with, it seems.

@TheatreJunkie84 - Just ignore aggressive, thin skinned, self-centred twats who interpret everything in life as a comment about themselves and their own choices. You were posting about your experiences, not judging or commenting on theirs.

@burritofan wins the thread today with this gem
“you’re better than all these other barely sentient potato babies”

And already the misinformation begins about how Breastmilk is deficient (it’s not) and studies about the benefits are highly biased etc- and we wonder why our BF rates In the UK are so abysmal.
BF is important as it saves the NHS money in the long term and is The biological Norm for baby mammals. Yes IVF is wonderful but no one would thing that it should be a viable alternative to conceiving via intercourse for anyone other than those who cannot (or choose not to due to sexual preference).

[quote DancingCatGif]@SnuggyBuggy

It's really not.

Do some research before you spout your nonsense.

It is deficient in both iron and vitamin d, and the studies that show It's better are massively flawed[/quote]
Right the fact that it's a living responsive food that provides antibodies counts for nothing.

I get that there is a lot of woo and a lot of benefits that are more to do with the social environment of a breastfed child but is an artificially produced food really going to be the same?

Does it mean its the right option for every mum? obviously not. Does it mean formula fed children are doomed? obviously not.

But why should we be compelled to pretend that they are the same thing just to please people?

I don't for one second believe I am a better person for getting through it. My post was to make sure others knew about the support available in our area....it was the core reason I DID get through it. In hindsight the photo was probably a bad idea. I guess I just didn't want the post get lost!

The photo wasn't a bad idea. Our culture is woefully deficient in images of and public breastfeeding, leading to a weird and puritanical and sexualised view of this natural behaviour. We need all the images and proud public breastfeeders we can get!

"Why is it a bad thing if women don't breastfeed?"

@DancingCatGif the science around breastfeeding is very well established, it confers huge benefits to both the mother and the child. It's millennia of human evolution at work. There are of course scenarios where stopping breastfeeding is best for a mother's wellbeing.

But my main point was that culturally, the fact is that we live in a country where FF mothers are in the great majority, which further isolates BFing mothers.

but we refuse to celebrate a mother for pushing herself to her limits to establish feeding with her baby?
Its part of parenting, doesnt matter how you chose to do it as long as your baby is healthy and well looked after, why do you need a trophy for doing what you committed to when chose to have that chil. Looking after a newborn is hard however you feed it. When they start school nobody can tell if the child was bf or not, nobody is even interested.

I don't have SM so wouldn't use it to talk about breastfeeding.
My experience of BF is it was one of the hardest things I have ever done. Shaky start with prem IUGR baby, tube fed then syringe fed for a while, then luckily got the hang of latching. Quadrupled his birth weight in the first 3 months. I had an oversupply and absolutely poured milk and he fed so so so so frequently. For months. And months. And months. And he never ever took a bottle.
It drained me. No real sleep, my hair fell out, my teeth went see through, my BMI dropped to underweight and I couldn't get it back up.
At some point trying to get him to take a bottle my Mum said 'if you got hit by a bus tomorrow he'd just have to take it' and this little comment set off this thread of anxiety in me that I couldn't let anything happen to me as not only would my baby lose his mum but he'd have to starve before he could be fed in that situation.
I couldn't go anywhere or spend anytime away from DS, absolutely no chance of a break just in case he needed a feed, delayed healthcare I needed as couldn't spend the time in hospital. No more than 2 hours sleep in a row until he was nearly a year. Staved of PND/PNA through sheer strength of will it felt like but there were times I was sobbing on my hands and knees on the floor, one time trying to explain to my lovely DH that I felt I was trapped in a nightmare where I wasn't allowed to sleep. Nothing he could really do to help.
I've done physically challenging things before that took training, effort, endurance. Also had mental health so poor I had to have inpatient treatment and in my experience, nothing has taken as much effort and resolve and physical reserve and mental strength like breastfeeding my son has.
Do I think that makes me morally better than anyone? Fuck no. Do I think breastfeeding is the hardest mental and physical thing I have ever done? Yes. Now I don't have SM, don't talk about my feelings on BF, don't wax lyrical about my BF 'journey', I don't think I've ever spelled out how hard it was for me until now, anonymously on this forum.
And there is part of me that thinks why do we need to talk about it so much, wouldn't it be better if everyone just got their head down and fed their babies. But then I understand that would leave some people to struggle alone (with whatever way they chose to feed).
I don't even think FF is necessarily easier. Taken in isolation getting your boob out in the middle of the night for a crying baby is easier and cheaper than preparing formula, but in my experience it was the crushing responsibility that it had to be you and the physical drain of making that much milk that got me. The complete lack of choice around when I could sleep or what I could do. The overwhelming fact that I was life support for another human being and had that crushing responsibility. I'd gestated him and then nothing other than milk from me kept him alive and developing until he was sixth months old and then he took ages to take to solids.
I don't need anyone else to value or praise that. But I have observed that if someone posted on Facebook that they had trained for and completed a marathon, they'd get praised. Or that a local group had helped them through a rough patch with their mental health - ditto. I don't think you'd get the pile on of 'some people can't run marathons' 'some people are still struggling with their MH' 'yeah that doesn't make you better than me'. People would just see someone coming out the other side of something that was hard for them. That doesn't cast a judgement on anyone else.
My friends who have formula fed have also celebrated when their babies have weaned fully, no more fucking cleaning bottles, no more expense, no more people judging you etc etc. Because whatever way you feed your baby it can be hard.
I think YABU to expect the outside world to validate you. Though it is not acceptable for them to denigrate you either.
YANBU to highlight a resource you found helpful, it's despicable that people piled on you for that. Just imagine if it had been a mental health charity or a diabetes support group that you wished to thank and highlight their good work and you got those kind of replies.
Well done for the effort you've put in - not because that makes you better but because that's taken hard work. I see that, I acknowledge that, well done and I'm glad you had good support x

@TheatreJunkie84
I agree with the right support being everything.
I was so on the verge of giving up {at only 2 days in} Pethidine had stupefied DS, and I was upset that DS's ''first feed'' was from another mother -I imagined her actually feeding him, but it was donated milk.
It made me very upset though.
Yes, it is fairly challenging , learning how to BF, but worth it. Well done for persevering.
Social media has a dark side- people can get the wrong end of the stick so much- You knew what you were meaning, by posting the photo,
But other mothers may have looked at it and seen it as a criticism of them not being able to/wanting to BF for whatever reason.

Don't worry, they'll have forgotten about it already, but social media-especially Facebook, can really bring out the ''follow on'' comments encouraged by other angry comments they all pile in, venting their rage.

One reason why it is good not to go on Facebook.