To think you're not allowed to be proud of breastfeeding any more....

[TheatreJunkie84]

NOT a breast is best thread.

I've had the journey from hell. Tongue tie, painful feeds, thrush, not gaining weight, shitty latch, literally everything except low supply....but here I am 3 months in still going, on a combination of formula, pumped milk and boob.

I posted on a local baby group today a picture of me feeding, with a caption about how proud I was to still be going at nearly 3 months despite all the crap...thanking my local group and its peer supporters for their role in keeping me going and encouraging others to seek their help as they were so lovely and wonderful.

It started off well...messages of congrats and other stories of the peer supporters helping out new mums. Suddenly out of nowhere I got called arrogant and told I should have some respect for all the mums that choose to formula feed and I shouldn't throw be throwing it down everyones necks. Before I knew it loads of other mums all joined in, basically saying breastfeeding is nothing to be proud of and I should shut up. Things along the lines of 'big whoop you can feed your baby I cant so this makes you better than me? Piss off.'

I quickly deleted it, feeling really ashamed of myself. I'm on the verge tears now every time I think about it. Am I being unreasonable here? I honestly wanted to give up so many times....but the local group kept me going and if posting about my success can encourage other mums to seek their help then that's surely only a good thing?

I don't know.

'fed mine for a long time but I never felt I could say it or be proud of it in case I offended anyone'

But why would you even want to? Its something we either do, don't or can't. Pride shouldn't come into it.

I'm proud of our dcs achievements, but what nutrition they had as babies? It really doesnt matter as long as they thrive.

This is an example of correlation not causation. Babies who were formula fed are more likely to be obese when they are older because the demographic of babies who are more likely to be formula fed are also more likely to be obese

Yes this is another thing, women more likely to breastfeed are also more likely to be wealthier and middle class. They're more likely to feed their child healthier food, live in a better standard of accommodation, prioritise their child's education etc. So it is really difficult to separate the benefits of breastfeeding from the benefits of being born to the demographic of woman most likely to breastfeed.

Ultimately health outcomes are still worst for babies in third world countries were breastfeeding rates are very very high.

There are many things you can do to significantly improve your child's future health & wellbeing, such as taking folic acid before pregnancy (many women do not know this), ensuring your child has a good diet (I once met a mum who believed cereal bars were a healthy breakfast), making sure they get adequate exercise and live in an area with cleaner air/water.

But breastfeeding is the one everyone obsessed over.

I'm proud of our dcs achievements, but what nutrition they had as babies? It really doesnt matter as long as they thrive

I think it’s her own achievement she’s proud of and there’s nothing wrong in that.

it is really difficult to separate the benefits of breastfeeding from the benefits of being born to the demographic of woman most likely to breastfeed

Yet it’s important to remember that breastfeeding would be disproportionately helpful to low-income women in developed countries, so should be especially encouraged and supported among that cohort.

It’s somehow become very middle class ...

But why would you even want to? Its something we either do, don't or can't. Pride shouldn't come into it.

For a few months it can feel like your whole world though, and breastfeeding can be bloody hard work. I remember watching so many youtube videos and going to groups for a baby that wouldn't latch. When we cracked it I was really elated and did feel proud.

Do I care about it now? Not at all.

Is this still going? It’s quite revealing this thread. A woman being told she has no right to share her small personal success, or that she’s proud ( how dare she be proud! ) with one aspect of motherhood because it might make others ‘feel bad’. Or worse, it’s ‘cringey’. This is why women are being called ‘menstruators’ and other such nonsense. Because everyone is so damn precious every little thing that happens is about them and they’ll use bizarre emotional manipulation to police the behaviour and language of others. When did women get so mean to each other? Focussing on what mothers share in baby groups while Ex Labour MP Eric Joyce is happily tweeting away after having got off with a suspended sentence for possessing and distributing child abuse images involving BABIES. I’m way more interested and bothered by him on social media and Labour and MSM saying nothing about it, then harassing women who share breastfeeding stories. Priorities. Anyone tweeted India Knight today? I’m not on twitter or Facebook, if I was I would focus on people like those two and what they’re posting. Not mums and what they post ffs

public health benefits of breastfeeding when I was the only one who’d actually walked there, they had all pulled up in big gas guzzlers

What’s wrong with big gas guzzlers? Honestly 🙄

I mean, I don’t even drive (excellent public transport in my area) but SUVs are popular among families for a reason.

I got quite jealous, actually, when I had to haul around a toddler seat on the occasion I needed a taxi somewhere. You’d absolutely buy a gas guzzler than put up with that shit, let me tell you. Nigh on impossible to do with that with multiple children and multiple car seats

I think you still get to tell childless women that they aren't really women because they've never breast fed a child, or given birth. At least judging by my experiences as a childless woman. I hope this make the people who do this better in proportion to the amount it made me feel bad.

but SUVs are popular among families for a reason

Shit for public health though. Thought that point was obvious.

@GetOffYourHighHorse
You said “But why would you even want to? Its something we either do, don't or can't. Pride shouldn't come into it.”

Women who do BF and are proud have often had an initial struggle to do so- giving birth can often be traumatic, tiring and hard emotionally to adjust to a newborn. Add into that that instead of being able to sleep for a week to recover you then have a baby latched onto your boobs (which are tender, swollen, sore etc) for pretty much 12/14 hours of the day and it’s all down to you- then why the hell NOT be proud? People have likened it to a marathon- and I’d agree- breastfeeding is natural, yes...but it’s bloody hard work for many people emotionally and physically at a really hard time. Maybe the biological norm is indeed to BF- I agree- but we as a society have moved so far away from other biological normals and BF is now hindered by the lack of other women supporters who’d have fed babies themselves (eg a few generations ago you’d have lived near sisters, aunts, mum etc so they’d all have been supportive and knowledgeable about BF) and now people say unhelpful things like “have you enough?” “Why are you feeding again?” “Maybe try some sugar water?” And offer to take the baby rather than give the mum time and space and food and do cleaning And childcare for her to allow her to Cosy up for the first week post birth.
When you BF every feed is your duty and you are on call 24/7. What’s NOT to be proud of? Your pride doesn’t lessen someone else... so people need to stop taking these things personally. If you’re happy with the choices you make- why be threatened when someone chooses something different? I don’t get it.

I think that when posting online about bf(or ff) that you know you will likely get a reaction. My eldest is nearly 10 and little has changed over the last 10 years, pretty much every post will end in the same way unless you are posting in an echo chamber(say a group for proud bf mums or similar). You always get the exact same points made on both sides.

When you have a young baby, feelings are heightened but once past those baby years you realise it really doesn’t matter how your baby was fed, nobody actually cares long term.

@BikeTyson

but SUVs are popular among families for a reason

Shit for public health though. Thought that point was obvious.

I think mango was being sarky.

Mind these days it's hard to tell sometimes

Is that how you go through life out of interest. Tell no-one when you learn a new skill? Like surprise your family and friends by just starting to drive around after passing hour test type shit?

Friends and family is a bit different imo. But even then you would be a dick if the person you were expressing all of your pride and enthusiasm to was, say, your cousin who had failed their driving test five times.

I don’t think there’s any problem with OP sharing pride with friends and family, or even on a forum which is specifically pro-breastfeeding. I’d advise her to seek out the right audience in future, that’s all.

Shit for public health though. Thought that point was obvious

They presumably have no other way to get around. Unless you live in an area with amazing public transport. I do, and it’s still a bit rough sometimes to manage. Do you expect them to fit a baby seat or two inside a tiny car that might crumple at the slightest crash? Or walk along roads that may or may not be safe for them?

It’s very judgemental to criticise something they can’t very well change (hey, sounds familiar doesn’t it?)

I guess you could say the system failed them 😂

@5amonSunday

I don't get how putting breast is best on formula tins helps.

In some parts of the world formula companies have managed to sell the message that formula is superior.

But what good does it do? It's the wrong time to give this message. I get putting smoking kills on cigarettes, a person can choose to try to give up smoking or that alcohol can harm a developing foetus, pregnant woman can put that bottle back on the shelf. Most women using formula can't relactate and stop using it.

If I had hypoplasia or something and couldn't breastfeed this would just be twisting the knife.

If you go to a formula manufacturer’s website to, for example, look up correct preparation instructions, before you can enter the site you have to click through a disclaimer confirming that you understand that breast is best and formula is an inferior substitute. It’s printed on formula tins and bottles. They’re required to do this by the government. That one is particularly galling when you’re trying to feed your baby who you had wanted to BF to be confronted with that every time you go to feed them.

I agree, it's ridiculous. I'm not trying to give my child a packet of cigarettes FFS - just some perfectly healthy formula! I'm sick of it being treated like some sort of poison. If it wasn't for formula my child would be dead.

They presumably have no other way to get around. Unless you live in an area with amazing public transport. I do, and it’s still a bit rough sometimes to manage. Do you expect them to fit a baby seat or two inside a tiny car that might crumple at the slightest crash? Or walk along roads that may or may not be safe for them?

I do live in an area with good public transport. And roads with pavements that are safe to walk on. We have a car because my DH needs it to commute to work. It’s an EV because I do care about the emissions impact of decisions we make. I don’t drive at all because I didn’t need a car to commute or to get around with my then baby now toddler to groups that are within a 20 minute radius of where I live which is the example I’m giving. I’m not criticising them for something I don’t stand by myself.

They can do what they like but it’s hypocritical to pretend they give a shit about public health when they’re taking other decisions that have a far more negative impact on public health than me and my bottle of formula. I don’t for a minute think all BF mothers are like this, btw. Just that it’s odd that if their concern was is about public health that they wouldn’t be concerned about other, more significant, aspects of public health choices other than the one they were sitting congratulating themselves about.

Especially since them driving everywhere actually does have an impact on other people’s health whereas me formula feeding makes no difference to anyone else.

But what good does it do? It's the wrong time to give this message. I get putting smoking kills on cigarettes, a person can choose to try to give up smoking or that alcohol can harm a developing foetus, pregnant woman can put that bottle back on the shelf. Most women using formula can't relactate and stop using it.

During the first few days (weeks?) it would be possible to start breastfeeding and slowly up supply. Parents might be giving formula before milk has come in, or they might buy formula before the baby is born.

I think the significance is more to prevent formula companies suggesting that formula is healthier or preferable.

I haven't RTFT, YANBU to be proud that you managed to fight through everything and still be breastfeeding, well done for keeping going and I'm sorry you have been upset by the comments. I tried and couldn't with either of my DC, my first was the worst. I had had breast is best forced on me throughout the entire pregnancy and when she was born she was born with too much mucus in her stomach which was telling her she was full and wouldn't eat for the first 4 days of her life, we were in hospital for 2 days because of it and they had to literally pour the milk down her through using a little cup, after they discharged me I sat for 2 hours trying to get her to latch, but she just wouldn't in the end we had to use a bottle just so the milk could drip into her mouth and we could get it into her, then I dried up at 6 weeks pp, even though I was expressing several times a day, took tablets to increase my supply, I tried the biscuits, I tried massaging my breasts, pumping whilst in a hot bath, nothing worked. It really impacted my mental health as I felt like I had failed my DD and didnt deserve to be a mother as I couldn't do this most natural thing, that is best for my DD. I attempted to leave twice and even contemplated suicide as I believed she would be better of without a useless mum like me. I tried again with my second and he latched beautifully from birth, but everytime I fed him he broke out in hives, once I changed him to formula they cleared up and I dried up at 6 weeks pp again anyway, it didn't bother me as much second time as I had said from the start I wouldn't breastfeed him and nobody put pressure on me to do so, I just decided to try it.
Anyway after that mass explanation of where I am coming from I have voted YABU, because I can understand how hurtful and how much it can impact the mental health of mothers who wanted to but couldn't and the pressure we are put under to do it.
Don't let it take away from you accomplishment, just maybe don't post it in a group of mixed mothers who might be struggling and not as successful as you.

I attempted to leave twice and even contemplated suicide as I believed she would be better of without a useless mum like me.

Sorry to hear what you went through Snake. This is why the smug "breast is best" brigade are so dangerous IMO.

I tried again with my second and he latched beautifully from birth, but everytime I fed him he broke out in hives, once I changed him to formula they cleared up

And this just goes to show that breast milk isn't the perfect elixir it's made out to be by these people!

I used to donate my surplus milk to the local maternity hospital (don't know if this still happens?) A midwife called every other day to collect milk and give me fresh sterilized bottles. I was paid for the milk (didn't want the money but I was told it was NHS policy that you had to take the money, it wasn't alot and apparently worked out as how many calories you used to produce a pint of milk and the cheapest source of those calories times the number of pints you produced.

I assume for the NHS to pay a midwife (known to her colleagues as the milk maid) and provide the bottles and pay for the milk it must have some value over formula or they would have just used formula.

Maybe it has changed in the intervening years.

@Wolfgirrl

*I've fed my LB for 2 years and 3 months

Crikey, I should hope so. The alternative would be starving him, which would be less than ideal.*

Further upthread someone was slagging women off for daring to specify /breastfeeding' when talking about feeding their child... "why not just say feeding?" And then when someone does that, still the snark. You really can't win as a breastfeeding mother.

Oh yes, and muting the thread are you? Not when there are still all these women to put down...

GetOffYourHighHorse But why would you even want to? Its something we either do, don't or can't. Pride shouldn't come into it. Maybe it is just revenge for the abuse you get if you feed a child past six months, a year whatever the great British public decide is "normal." Getting called a weirdo or disgusting does tend to make you stand up for yourself.

@5amonSunday

But what good does it do? It's the wrong time to give this message. I get putting smoking kills on cigarettes, a person can choose to try to give up smoking or that alcohol can harm a developing foetus, pregnant woman can put that bottle back on the shelf. Most women using formula can't relactate and stop using it.

During the first few days (weeks?) it would be possible to start breastfeeding and slowly up supply. Parents might be giving formula before milk has come in, or they might buy formula before the baby is born.

I think the significance is more to prevent formula companies suggesting that formula is healthier or preferable.

I agree formula companies shouldn't be allowed to do that but I think it's overall a very unhelpful place to put it when a lot of people buying those tins won't be able to change anything. Now putting something about potential bacteria contamination and the need to prepare formula at at least 70C would be a useful message.

I'm all for breastfeeding promotion but we have to acknowledge some of it is off putting.