To think you're not allowed to be proud of breastfeeding any more....

[TheatreJunkie84]

NOT a breast is best thread.

I've had the journey from hell. Tongue tie, painful feeds, thrush, not gaining weight, shitty latch, literally everything except low supply....but here I am 3 months in still going, on a combination of formula, pumped milk and boob.

I posted on a local baby group today a picture of me feeding, with a caption about how proud I was to still be going at nearly 3 months despite all the crap...thanking my local group and its peer supporters for their role in keeping me going and encouraging others to seek their help as they were so lovely and wonderful.

It started off well...messages of congrats and other stories of the peer supporters helping out new mums. Suddenly out of nowhere I got called arrogant and told I should have some respect for all the mums that choose to formula feed and I shouldn't throw be throwing it down everyones necks. Before I knew it loads of other mums all joined in, basically saying breastfeeding is nothing to be proud of and I should shut up. Things along the lines of 'big whoop you can feed your baby I cant so this makes you better than me? Piss off.'

I quickly deleted it, feeling really ashamed of myself. I'm on the verge tears now every time I think about it. Am I being unreasonable here? I honestly wanted to give up so many times....but the local group kept me going and if posting about my success can encourage other mums to seek their help then that's surely only a good thing?

I don't know.

Oh ffs not another one of these threads! They're so depressing to read (I know, I shouldn't have clicked!) It always just turns into women tearing each other down and slanging matches.

I combi fed at first, almost swapped totally to formula when ds went on some kind of weird nursing strike at around 9 weeks, then suddenly he changed track and started taking the breast again! We then hardly bothered with bottles because for us it was easier to just stick him on me. But I can say I feel firmly in the middle when it comes to 'feeding tribes' as I call them.

There is a bf support group local to me so I went there a couple of times when ds was really young, but I didn't feel I fitted in. Alot of the ladies there were very evangelical about bf... They were a very friendly group, but I just found it a bit too full on. I was discouraged from giving formula during his nursing strike, which I ignored because my instinct was he was hungry so I'd rather he was fed even if it meant stopping breastfeeding.

On the other hand, when I was breastfeeding there was a couple of times I was at baby groups, the only bf mum there and I would slink off to a quiet corner to feed ds because the other mums went on about how people who bf in front of them 'are just rubbing it in' etc etc. Note: I never bring up the subject of feeding and when asked I just give a really general answer.

There is nothing wrong with feeling proud of breastfeeding, just like there is nothing wrong with being proud of formula feeding. Just own your choice and don't use it to tear others down. The same goes for natural birth vs c section, spoon vs blw, routine vs whatever the F works for you!

I've fed my LB for 2 years and 3 months

Crikey, I should hope so. The alternative would be starving him, which would be less than ideal.

I'm proud of you. BF is tough and you have done an amazing job

I'll tell you what is a 'health crisis', obesity.

There are a number of things that a more of a health crisis than breastfeeding rates. Pollution is another. More people die every year than necessary because people won’t get out of their cars for short journeys.

Housing is another. Substandard housing leads to deaths.

If people’s concerns were really all just about children’s health, then these things would be targeted first. I’d rather see a bit of cash spent on those things than on “persuading” a few more middle class mothers with detached homes and 4 by 4s to breastfeed and guilting the ones that don’t into PND.

Nobody, apart from fans of your competitor would rain on your parade for being proud of winning Wimbledon on your Facebook page because they would understand that in order to do this, you had to be extraordinary in terms of ability and dedication over many years. Only 0000.1% of humans would ever match your achievement.

Feeding your baby is called parenting. It’s what you’re supposed to do. It’s like some dads who want a medal for looking after their kid. No, it’s your job to look after your kids. You’re not a ‘great dad’ because you took them to the park. Millions of kids are at the park with their parents right now. Feeding them is even more basic than taking them to the park. It’s your most basic job according to Maslow’s hierarchy of needs - food, water, shelter. Feeding is not pat on the back level stuff.

I breastfed all mine until they were 2 or 2.5 years old. I never owned a bottle, they went straight from breast to beaker.

I was and still am really pleased I did it. It’s a myth that it shouldn’t hurt to feed at the beginning. It’s a damaging myth because women give up if they feel pain as they assume they’re doing it wrong. It took a lot of perseverance in the early days and I saw it as a real achievement to have succeeded, especially in the face of absolutely relentless “advice” from other mums who were bottle-feeding. Wasn’t I tired? Wasn’t I run down? Wouldn’t I like baby to sleep through? Wouldn’t I like my freedom back? Doesn’t poor daddy want to feed the baby? That bond is so important blah blah blah All intended to convince them their choice was better than mine.

I carried on, loved it and am proud.

Excellent posts @Wolfgirrl and @Tellmetruth4!

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'The health benefits are enormous. Medical databases are full of them. Low breastfeeding rates are a health crisis. Your positions are anecdotal.'

Yes usually from WHO who as we know advice internationally.

In a first world country where sanitation is not an issue and people can access sterilising the figures all become blurred.

I'll tell you what is a 'health crisis', obesity. Now if only some of the overweight breast feeders paid quite as much attention to that and brought their kids up to be healthy right through to adulthood that would have a much greater impact on public health.
I agree bf is ideal I managed 2 our of 3 fine but in the grand scheme of things in our country it doesn't really matter that much. Economic and social deprivation is of far greater concern. Leave new mums alone they dont need judgement!!

Formula milk is linked to obesity in both babies and adults!

I so agree with your point about nipple pain @TheNewLook . The best advice I got prenatally was that it was like breaking in a new pair of shoes so I didn't panic when I was a bit sore on day two and three (and four).

I met so many mothers who stopped due to nipple pain in the first couple of days as they were convinced they were 'failing' .

@Justmuddlingalong

I think you can be quietly proud, but posting about your pride on a public forum, not aimed solely at breastfeeding mums could be seen as a bit goady. You've deleted the thread so try and put it out of your head.

I think this is bullshit. Everyone can be proud of different things even though others haven't done it!

You wouldn't keep a work promotion from people incase it offended those that hadn't had one recently! And be told you can only tell other people who had been promoted 🙄

I couldn't BF for very long but I'm still able to be proud and supportive of anyone who did!

'There are a number of things that a more of a health crisis than breastfeeding rates. Pollution is another. More people die every year than necessary because people won’t get out of their cars for short journeys.'

Yes and of course people can be concerned about more than one thing at a time but I know people who harped on (really!) About the health benefits of bf when their kids were babies yet now the whole families are obese.

It's very selective the attention some pay to advice. So do all on here who are 'proud' to have bf have healthy bmis and dont drink alcohol (both have huge impacts on health). Also will their DC never eat fast food and will they have 5 portions of fruit a day If not why not, when does the adherence to advice and the focus on statistics stop? When there's a Macdonalds on offer I bet.

• I wanted to signpost a great support group. Why would I signpost a support group in a group made for women who already breastfeed?

I am trying to help other women. How can anyone do this if we are forced to remain silent*

And this right here is what gets people’s backs up about posts like yours. It’s audience. The women who don’t care about BF and have chosen FF simply won’t care. The women who are currently really struggling with BF are going to avoid at all costs a thread about being proud of breastfeeding - the subject is too raw and too painful. So your audience is going to be the other women who have successfully BF to give you an ego wank, and the ones who feel they’ve failed who will tell you to fuck off.

As to the women who feel they have failed at breastfeeding - these are the women who have tried everything. Paid for private lactation consultants, spent days on the phone to LLL, bought every kind of pump, nipple shield, feeding pillow there is going - they’ve TRIED. They aren’t magically going to be helped by some sanctimummy posting on MN.

You do you. It’s worked out for you, and that’s great. You should be proud, and you don’t have to stay silent. But people who haven’t managed it aren’t going to be helped by you and that’s going to get a strong reaction.

Formula milk is linked to obesity in both babies and adults!

This is an example of correlation not causation. Babies who were formula fed are more likely to be obese when they are older because the demographic of babies who are more likely to be formula fed are also more likely to be obese. The studies which correct for this, or consider siblings fed by different methods, do not come up with the results you claim. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18065591/

I think it’s possible to be proud of an accomplishment and not need to shout about it from the rooftops - especially when you know you’re shouting about it to people who weren’t able to accomplish the same thing despite best efforts. Nothing wrong with a quiet sense of pride, self worth and satisfaction. Potentially something a bit more wrong with seeking external validation from people who would dearly love to have done the same as you, but couldn’t.

My eldest DC is now 26, yes she was BF, it’s only I’d say it’s in the last 10yrs we have had the preachy bf right on mummy’s.
Did your mum or grans generation harp on about feeding their baby? no they just got on with it.
Same with another post just now harping about her parenting ‘methods’, nobody cares!!
You’re a parent it’s your job to feed & raise your child!!!

GetOffYourHighHorse I don’t know any obese families who were enthusiastic breast feeders (I’m the fatty tbh - although I was BF, letting the side down there) but I did get a bit pissed off once sitting at a baby group listening to some women waxing lyrical about the public health benefits of breastfeeding when I was the only one who’d actually walked there, they had all pulled up in big gas guzzlers.

@PrincessBuggerPants

I so agree with your point about nipple pain *@TheNewLook* . The best advice I got prenatally was that it was like breaking in a new pair of shoes so I didn't panic when I was a bit sore on day two and three (and four).

I met so many mothers who stopped due to nipple pain in the first couple of days as they were convinced they were 'failing' .

Exactly the same thing I've noticed IRL. Then they tell people how they 'couldnt' breastfeed.

This thread is even more batshit than a usual bfvsff thread.

Just read back and this is a comment of OPs
they shouldn't be proud because they succeeded where others might not have
Yes this is crowing and arrogance, not nice at all.

@TheHappyHerbivore

I think it’s possible to be proud of an accomplishment and not need to shout about it from the rooftops - especially when you know you’re shouting about it to people who weren’t able to accomplish the same thing despite best efforts. Nothing wrong with a quiet sense of pride, self worth and satisfaction. Potentially something a bit more wrong with seeking external validation from people who would dearly love to have done the same as you, but couldn’t.

Is that how you go through life out of interest. Tell no-one when you learn a new skill? Like surprise your family and friends by just starting to drive around after passing hour test type shit?

@TheNewLook
especially in the face of absolutely relentless “advice” from other mums who were bottle-feeding. Wasn’t I tired? Wasn’t I run down? Wouldn’t I like baby to sleep through? Wouldn’t I like my freedom back? Doesn’t poor daddy want to feed the baby? That bond is so important blah blah blah All intended to convince them their choice was better than mine.

Omg yes I've had all of this, mostly from mil and both sils! The worst was when he started taking the breast again after we pushed through the nursing strike (by using formula to ensure he was fed) and they were all genuinely disappointed / annoyed that I wasn't swapping and wanted to carry on once it was working again. I couldn't understand their attitude at all. He's 8.5 months now and I think I'll stop after the one year mark as I feel ready and he is more interested in food now anyway, but this will be my choice, no one else's!

Formula top ups got us through the first few weeks to keep his weight up (he was prem) and the nursing strike. My friend who didn't bf had an awful time finding the right combination of formula, bottles, teats, gaviscon etc for her baby with various issues and I told her she should feel so proud that she kept trying things, pushing for advice from hv / gp etc to get the best combination for him.

Sorry that was a bit of a ramble, I guess I'm just trying to say we all do our own thing, we all want what's best for our babies so why not feel proud and be proud of others??

For a PP who mentioned it, I wouldn't by any stretch describe myself as an evangelical breastfeeder as I do think ff is better for many overall circumstances but yes I do have a healthy BMI, don't drink or smoke, or drink coffee, avoid processed foods, avoid chemicals etc because for me it's all part of an overall picture although of course we have the odd McDonalds etc

But I will say however hard breastfeeding was I think it was easier than trying to make sure my toddler has a balanced diet! I'm definitely not always succeeding there! But like all parents on this thread on both sides just do my best

'This is an example of correlation not causation. Babies who were formula fed are more likely to be obese when they are older because the demographic of babies who are more likely to be formula fed are also more likely to be obese'

Exactly. I'm all for bf, but in a first world country where we have running water and electricity I'm all for ff too.

To be fair I don't get how putting breast is best on formula tins helps. Isn't it too late to go back to breastfeeding by then?

I get it. I fed mine for a long time but I never felt I could say it or be proud of it in case I offended anyone. I’ve seen the way some women tear others down because they dared to post something about bf - and I didn’t want to be that person torn down so I didn’t say anything - all of my bf friends felt the same too. Sad really but such is life.

I don't get how putting breast is best on formula tins helps.

In some parts of the world formula companies have managed to sell the message that formula is superior.