To think you're not allowed to be proud of breastfeeding any more....

[TheatreJunkie84]

NOT a breast is best thread.

I've had the journey from hell. Tongue tie, painful feeds, thrush, not gaining weight, shitty latch, literally everything except low supply....but here I am 3 months in still going, on a combination of formula, pumped milk and boob.

I posted on a local baby group today a picture of me feeding, with a caption about how proud I was to still be going at nearly 3 months despite all the crap...thanking my local group and its peer supporters for their role in keeping me going and encouraging others to seek their help as they were so lovely and wonderful.

It started off well...messages of congrats and other stories of the peer supporters helping out new mums. Suddenly out of nowhere I got called arrogant and told I should have some respect for all the mums that choose to formula feed and I shouldn't throw be throwing it down everyones necks. Before I knew it loads of other mums all joined in, basically saying breastfeeding is nothing to be proud of and I should shut up. Things along the lines of 'big whoop you can feed your baby I cant so this makes you better than me? Piss off.'

I quickly deleted it, feeling really ashamed of myself. I'm on the verge tears now every time I think about it. Am I being unreasonable here? I honestly wanted to give up so many times....but the local group kept me going and if posting about my success can encourage other mums to seek their help then that's surely only a good thing?

I don't know.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

I'm not 'deciding', what a weird thing to say. I'm merely stating facts, that is all. If somebody wants to spend the first months of their baby's life persevering in something very painful and emotionally draining, they deserve to know what level of payback they can expect. If they decide the slight benefit is worth it, power to them. If they decide to call it quits & to just enjoy their baby, power to them.

The reason I breastfed was because it came very easily to me. If it hadn't, I would have bottle fed without a second thought. I wouldnt have let it dominate my life or let my baby go hungry.

But trotting out all the impressive benefits while conveniently omitting they are tiny is misleading.

I could understand the high emotional/physical cost if breastfeeding if the health benefits were substantial, or even noticeable. But they're just not are they? I breastfed myself, I have no agenda. But I feel a bit sorry for women who wrecked their newborn days trying to breastfeed because they were told 'it raises a baby's IQ', only to find out it raises it by something like 0.7 points. When you crunch the numbers, the benefit is so tiny it is only noticeable on a national level.

Perhaps there are women who perseveres breastfeeding solely because they thought their babies would be smarter. But I’m more inclined to assume the decision to intend to breastfeed is far more complex than that.

I think you are placing the struggles that women have in the newborn stage solely back onto those women. I haven’t seen any of the BF advocates (UNICEF, WHO) say “women should try harder”. They are advocating for more support. Perhaps with more support, it wouldn’t be such a struggle. Perhaps with more support, some of those 80% of women who stopped BF before they were ready could have carried on. This isn’t a conversation around “breast is best” blah blah, this is a conversation around how a high number of mothers intend to breastfeed and stop before they’d have liked to.

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959652619307322

I read this recently it's quite interesting. I'm in no way formula bashing though I don't care what other people do.

Breast is absolutely the best. The Gold standard. You should be proud of sustaining your infant. It’s not always easy.
Fed is an a s minimum standard. Not wrong, not awful in western world but definitely not conferring the same advantages as breastfeeding.
Be proud, spread the message that’s its normal, possible, healthy.

@Hardbackwriter

Of course it isnt. But neither is sterilising bottles for expressed breast milk, or the production if antibiotics and treatments for mastitis etc. The production of nursing clothes in sweat shops or disposable breast pads.

I dont disagree that overall formula feeding has a greater impact on the environment. But breastfeeding is not as environmentally friendly as it seems from the outset.

I never equated the ‘fed is best’ with ff as formula is amazing. I wish I’d been the inventor. I just wish Perfect Preps had been around when I was feeding my DC’s.

It’s very emotive and I can see why people would think you are being goady

Be proud privately or with family, but it could be seen as rubbing noses in it for those who suffer the same as you but can’t manage breast feeding, or those that couldn’t manage at all and keep being told breast is best

Personally I think it’s time the mantra was changed to whatever is best for baby to get food

Hardbackwriter

I have to agree. The argument process on here from WolfGirl has been something to behold.

“There are no huge health benefits to breastfeeding”

“Of course breastfeeding is better/ more natural. Where did I say it wasn’t?”

“Breastfeeding has just as much a negative affect on the environment.”

“But, but, nipple shields!”

“I actually breastfed”

(These are paraphrased. I could be bothered with finding the direct quotes)

It’s insane

'The Gold standard.'

Oh please cherrypavlova stop being so dramatic. Infant feeding is an individual choice and mothers who choose not to should not be made to feel sub standard.

The OP can be as proud as she likes, just sharing her pride on social media is cheesy and attention seeking.

@Hardbackwriter

I'm glad you find me fascinating! It's a mix of both I think, although I would say lovely edges it. I think my online persona is a kick back against the grey, 'be kind', non committal, sorry-for-your-offence world that we live in now.

Anyway, I dont think I'm clutching at straws. Most breastfeeding women I know have a pump, bottles, a steriliser, nursing clothes etc and these tend to be things you buy new for hygiene. I did say ff is clearly worse for the environment, but I dont think bf is as good for the environment as 50 years ago before pumps, disposable pads, nursing clothes etc were a thing.

I never mentioned nipple shields by the way but you can add them to the list above.

By having a baby you’ve ruined your carbon footprint so how you feed them is really irrelevant.

By having a baby you’ve ruined your carbon footprint so how you feed them is really irrelevant.

Well not really. If no one had babies then the world would end. Replacing like for like doesn’t increase the global population.

Oh and I’m a BF mother without specific clothes, nipple shields, disposable pads. I hired a pump and have used two bottles (because he refused them so never needed more!). I try and be environmentally friendly but this didn’t factor into any decisions about feeding my DS and I doubt it has for many mothers (but would happily be wrong).

Yanbu. You should be proud of yourself and I think it was nice of you to thank those who supported you. I agree that it could encourage others to persevere or know where to seek help if they’re struggling. It’s a shame that there are so many people ready to shut others down.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

“There are no huge health benefits to breastfeeding” - well there aren't.

“Of course breastfeeding is better/ more natural. Where did I say it wasn’t?” - I did that this. It is ever so slightly negligibly better.

“Breastfeeding has just as much a negative affect on the environment.” - didnt say that. I said it has 'some' effect, but still less than ff.

“But, but, nipple shields!” - didnt say that.

“I actually breastfed” - I did say that.

Ugh. I've read every post on this thread and it's been completely hideous for the most part. It's this sort of nexus of negativity, pain and spite. Particularly reading people saying that persevering with bf when it's difficult at first (as it is for many) is basically neglecting your newborn. Or pointless. As if the only reasons someone might want to bf is because it's supposedly "better" than formula, when actually we want to bf because we're mammals and it's how we feed our young. This is what happens when formula becomes the overwhelming norm - you have to justify yourself for wanting to do what is biologically normal. It's like suburban USA, where whole districts are designed purely for cars and walking even a short distance marks you out as a total weirdo. It's backwards.

Don't know why I bother reading them as it always goes the same way.

There aren't huge benefits to breastfeeding. There are some benefits which have a small effect on a population level but a negligible benefit at an individual level.

Breastfeeding your child does not guarantee them a place at Oxbridge, sporting prowess, a healthy BMI, an immunity to cancer. It won't make them taller or stronger or give them good hair. It's marginally better than formula, it's not a magic potion.

If you take a class of 4 year olds, 10 year olds, or 18 year olds, you will have no way of telling which were breastfed and which weren't.

@VeniceQueen2004

Nobody has said it is neglectful or pointless, you're paraphrasing. We are saying in certain cases the cost/benefit ratio isnt worth it. People tell you there are benefits but never to what extent. I'm just mooting that if some women knew how tiny the benefit is, they would let themselves off the hook. I'm not discrediting womens efforts or being nasty, quite the opposite.

@Lockheart

There aren't huge benefits to breastfeeding. There are some benefits which have a small effect on a population level but a negligible benefit at an individual level.

Breastfeeding your child does not guarantee them a place at Oxbridge, sporting prowess, a healthy BMI, an immunity to cancer. It won't make them taller or stronger or give them good hair. It's marginally better than formula, it's not a magic potion.

If you take a class of 4 year olds, 10 year olds, or 18 year olds, you will have no way of telling which were breastfed and which weren't.

I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. But not all... I think that not enough actual studies have been carried out on long term health outcomes etc... mainly because there isn’t the funding (nobody has an economic interest high enough in breastfeeding to fund these types of studies on a meaningful scale - there is no profit to be had by proving long term benefits) and also because there are too many variables. You can’t account for other factors in a child’s life. For these reasons, we may never know what (if any) long term benefits there are to breastfeeding to say for certain that is has an important role to play.

So, with the above in mind, I believe in informed choice vs weighing up pros and cons for each mother, family circumstance and phase of life.

Breast milk is better than formula milk. But breastfeeding isn’t necessary better than formula feeding if that makes sense. The former is a fact... the latter statement is totally dependent on circumstance.

As if the only reasons someone might want to bf is because it's supposedly "better" than formula, when actually we want to bf because we're mammals and it's how we feed our young

This!

With my first, I hadn’t made my mind up about how I wanted to feed my son (I had hyperemesis and getting through the day was the only thing I could think about) however I did want to at least try to breastfeed and if it didn’t work out, I felt I would be okay with that.

However, watching my son, minutes old, searching for my breast was so powerful to me that I immediately knew it is what I needed to do. Putting him to my breast was so instinctive, primal really.

I'm just mooting that if some women knew how tiny the benefit is, they would let themselves off the hook.

That’s certainly the case for me. Most likely one and done, but if we ever decide to have another I’ll be taking my formula and my baby home. Knowing what I know now, I would never try to exclusively breast feed. I’d be open to combi feeding if I actually got one that knew how to latch this time. But now I know properly understand the actual benefits vs disbenefits (rather than what the NHS antenatal classes promoted) I would absolutely not put myself or my family through that again. I’d be a failure according to statistics but at least this time I’d be making a fully educated decision.

Ime, many women who end up ff, do so because they have attempted to bf and for various reasons, it hasn't worked out for them. For some it's a lack of support, for others it's due to health or physical reasons. And for many of those women , who are already feeling that they've failed, this sort of thing just adds to those feelings. And although several people on this thread insist they've never known a ff woman to be judged, the experience of those women is different. My sil STILL reminds me that she bf whilst I ff. She has no idea why I ended up having to ff but even now, over 30 years later, lives to remind me about her amazing bf experience. My two dcs ended up being ff on medical advice. They have grown up to be fit, healthy, intelligent adults. I highly doubt that anyone would be able to tell they were ff by looking at them. But beleive me, ff mother's DO attract judgement and criticism. I think that if you decided to ff from the get go, you would possibly feel less affected by the comments than someone who tried but couldn't make it work.

I'm not discrediting womens efforts or being nasty, quite the opposite.

@Wolfgirrl are you for real? You've been absolutely hideous to anyone woman on this thread who dared to feel proud of any sort of BF achievement or credit its benefits. How is that the opposite of being nasty?

Breastfeeding is hard! A lot of the time it's painful, exhausting, it leaves you feeling frustrates and isolated sometimes. Anyone who breastfeeds has the right to feel proud, whether they managed for 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, 1 year etc.

I'm sick to death of hearing, well I couldn't so you just make me feel bad, well I chose not to so you are just making me feel bad etc.

We aren't proud to make anyone feel bad, we are proud because we did something that we feel good about, for ourselves, not to spite anyone else

You couldn't feed your baby? I'm so sorry that you didn't get the support you needed to help you carry on if that is what you wanted. You did your best and your child had a full tummy and thrived. Well done mama.

You chose not to breastfeed? Well done mama, you know your circumstances and chose what was best for you and your baby/family.

You breastfed your baby? Well done mama, I know how hard you worked to achieve that.

I can't run a marathon but I don't belittle runners for being proud of their accomplishment. I can't decorate a cake to professional standards but I don't slap down people who have posted pics of their hard work and years of practice in the kitchen. I don't have an immaculate house or oasis like garden but I don't post spiteful comments when I see people showing off their hard work or amazing eye for detail just because I look around my cluttered house and feel like crap about it.

What the hell gives anyone the right to shit on your parade? Nothing, no right. We can all do things that others can't and instead of cheering each other on some women like to just shit on each other.