To think you're not allowed to be proud of breastfeeding any more....

[TheatreJunkie84]

NOT a breast is best thread.

I've had the journey from hell. Tongue tie, painful feeds, thrush, not gaining weight, shitty latch, literally everything except low supply....but here I am 3 months in still going, on a combination of formula, pumped milk and boob.

I posted on a local baby group today a picture of me feeding, with a caption about how proud I was to still be going at nearly 3 months despite all the crap...thanking my local group and its peer supporters for their role in keeping me going and encouraging others to seek their help as they were so lovely and wonderful.

It started off well...messages of congrats and other stories of the peer supporters helping out new mums. Suddenly out of nowhere I got called arrogant and told I should have some respect for all the mums that choose to formula feed and I shouldn't throw be throwing it down everyones necks. Before I knew it loads of other mums all joined in, basically saying breastfeeding is nothing to be proud of and I should shut up. Things along the lines of 'big whoop you can feed your baby I cant so this makes you better than me? Piss off.'

I quickly deleted it, feeling really ashamed of myself. I'm on the verge tears now every time I think about it. Am I being unreasonable here? I honestly wanted to give up so many times....but the local group kept me going and if posting about my success can encourage other mums to seek their help then that's surely only a good thing?

I don't know.

I always find it astonishing in these threads how many women who formula fed describe feeling unusual, belittled, beleaguered, etc. I'm not doubting their subjective experience but we live in a society where 76% of babies have at least some formula by 6 weeks and 83% by 3 months, and where a bottle is the universal symbol for a baby. I just find it so culturally interesting that women who are objectively the majority and the norm can be made to feel like a stigmatized minority.

Do you think it’s acceptable for women to be put under immense pressure to take a particular course of action (that has statistically very similar outcomes to the alternative) by health professionals at a really vulnerable point in their lives, when their hormones are all over the place?

I don't.

However people should be capable of channeling their frustration to the actual source - i.e. NHS BFing policies, rather than other mum's who breastfeed.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

I wouldn't switched from formula to breast in a heartbeat.

And I know plenty of other women that could.

But you see it wasn't an option. So that point is irrelevant

when their hormones are all over the place?<

Our hormones at that time are literally geared up to breastfeed, so yes.

@MillyMollyFarmer

>Yes, every midwife, HV and GP that I encountered.If they did this after you struggled a lot, then you had a bad run. But the health profession isn't always fair to women in a number of areas, not just breastfeeding. Even if you do breastfeed, they find something else you're not doing right. Nobody here on this thread is saying to you to keep trying are they? So perhaps get a new GP

I tried. Every healthcare professional said the same.

See IMO the analogies with mountain climbing and running marathons ect. just aren't quite right. Nor with anything that is a hobby done for pleasure. These things wont have the potential for emotional load which the carrying and then responsibility of feeding a new baby has

So very true. These analogies are incredibly dismissive of something that causes a lot of heartache to a lot of women and is a significant contributing factor to post natal depression

I feel weight loss has an emotive factor and people should be able to post pics of their weight loss journey without worrying about upsetting those who haven’t been able to.

Your post kind of implied though that other mums who had tried and not been successful breastfeeding had simply not worked through the hurdles and tried hard enough.

I don't understand why women would be particularly proud of breastfeeding, it's just like changing their shitty nappy, it's part of having a baby, you need to change them, burb them, make sure they are safe and feed them, it doesn't matter how they are fed, as long as they are fed.

Oh, I see it took a turn from where I read to.

I BF. My mum BF (I remember her feeding my youngest sisterr), and it never occurred to me to do something else - especially given my hatred of washing up.

I found it hard at first (DS1 took a while to learn), then so easy - a nappy and some wipes and my purse and I could just leave the house. Weaning, remembering to actually have food with me, was such a jolt to the system!

BFing mothers aren't responsible for the fact that the NHS doesn't provide adequate support or manage expectations

No of course it’s not their responsibility and I’ve said this already on the thread. But the thread was asking why the reaction she got was the way it was, and as someone who would react badly (although I’d have quietly felt shit about it rather than publicly commenting as such) I’m giving my explanation for why my postnatal depression was a bit fucking different from not being able to book a holiday or go up Everest.

I’ve never heard of anyone switching from formula to breast because breastfeeding is easier. I’ve known many (15 off the top of my head) who switched to formula within days because it was easier.
Newborns are hard work regardless of what you feed them. Breastfeeding IS harder though.
Ease wasn't my primary reason but never having to faff about sterilising bottles or making them up and having to figure out how to do that was definitely part of it. DC1 we worked at for ages to take a bottle of expressed milk so I could have a few hours at a hen do when he was 5 months. With DC2 I had no such incentive so couldn't be arsed ever giving her a bottle. Breastfeeding IS harder is not a universal truth.

@TheKeatingFive

Yes, every midwife, HV and GP that I encountered.

And you decided that you knew best what was right for you. That's fine, what's the issue?

The issue are views like yours. Although you'll never see that.

I tried. Every healthcare professional said the same.<

Well I am not going to argue with you because I have not enjoyed my experience with GP's and doctors, even nurses, on the NHS.

Thank fuck for the excellent formula available that has freed women to be able to be comfortable and confident in feeding their babies. However it's done.

I really hate evangelists that leap on their hobby horses to the detriment of other women. Their babies? Their feeding solution.

Why not focus on lobbying for increased support for women, across the board,, all women, who are having babies? That way women can access whatever they decide they need rather than having 'stuff' and politics/'campaigns' foisted on them.

@Hardbackwriter

I always find it astonishing in these threads how many women who formula fed describe feeling unusual, belittled, beleaguered, etc. I'm not doubting their subjective experience but we live in a society where 76% of babies have at least some formula by 6 weeks and 83% by 3 months, and where a bottle is the universal symbol for a baby. I just find it so culturally interesting that women who are objectively the majority and the norm can be made to feel like a stigmatized minority.

Breastfeeding may be the minority overall but in certain demographics it is very much the majority. Middle class mothers are apparently far more likely to breastfeed.

@MillyMollyFarmer

>Breastfeeding evangelists will never understand that it’s just not the same for everyone! (It's very clear who those people are from the posts here)Is it? Because I do not see a single evangelist nor anyone who doesn't understand the difficulties. You're making assumptions because people breastfeed, about whether or not it is difficult. The OP herself had a struggle, that's the point of the thread! I had a horrible time initially too. Why is simply saying, I breastfed, a judgement on anyone else or an indicator on how hard or easy it was?

There are plenty of posters who quite clearly infer that breastfeeding is very hard but they got through it. This suggests that anyone could if they tried hard enough and that is where 'pride' starts to come in. That is not true. As per my previous post, the definition of hard is subjective. How do you know your experience was 'hard' compared to anyone else's.

[quote ScarMatty]@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

I wouldn't switched from formula to breast in a heartbeat.

And I know plenty of other women that could.

But you see it wasn't an option. So that point is irrelevant [/quote]
My point is not irrelevant.
I’m guessing what you meant to write was that you WOULD have if you could have. That doesn’t mean it would have been because of ease. That was my point.

*See IMO the analogies with mountain climbing and running marathons ect. just aren't quite right. Nor with anything that is a hobby done for pleasure. These things wont have the potential for emotional load which the carrying and then responsibility of feeding a new baby has.

(Apols to anyone still feeling tearful or guilty that they couldn't get up a mountain years after the event!)*

@Laiste

That’s true and I take your point. I chose the marathon analogy because they are both acts of physical endurance. But I can see that the difference is that if someone doesn’t climb a mountain or run a marathon, it’s most likely because they never wanted to anyway. And the same isn’t true of breastfeeding; we know from the statistics that most women want to breastfeed but many end up not doing so. So I do accept that there’s likely to be a level of grief involved that just isn’t there with marathon running.

But I think my point was that with anything, breastfeeding or running or mountain climbing, someone’s success isn’t another person’s failure. It might affect how we talk about it. But OP is allowed to have pride in what she’s achieved.

The issue are views like yours. Although you'll never see that.

Can you be more specific? It’s all a bit cryptic now.

Your post kind of implied though that other mums who had tried and not been successful breastfeeding had simply not worked through the hurdles and tried hard enough.<

How? I would really like this explained by someone. How does someone talking about themselves and their own life, a comment on anyone else's? If to said at the end: so just goes to show some aren't trying hard enough' You'd have a point. But it didn't.

You have added intent and meaning to suit your own agenda or insecurities, or both

I’m giving my explanation for why my postnatal depression was a bit fucking different from not being able to book a holiday or go up Everest

The point is that it’s not their fault you still have unresolved feelings over it. We should celebrate each other’s achievements, even the more mundane ones, and not internalise them as our own shortcomings.

@ScarMatty

Yes, every midwife, HV and GP that I encountered

It's bizarre because every GP, HV, Midwife etc I encountered while struggling encouraged me to pack it in and formula feed. Many of the bf mums I have spoken to tell the same story. I remember trying to latch her in the hospital after my section and I asked the nurse on duty why it wasn't working; she sighed in a bored way and said 'alright then what's plan B for feeding?' She wasn't even 24 hours old!

Although the party line is that HCPs encourage breastfeeding, the fact is they are all busy and stressed and because of the current stats the assumption is that you are going to give up before you've even really started. They more or less just want you off their watch in my experience. So to me the idea women are being hounded to breastfeed is a bit... far fetched? I remember at the 6 week check the doctor didn't even ask how I was feeding, just ticked FF in the red book - I had to correct her!

Maybe this is different in areas with high rates of BF or well-resourced healthcare services - I was living in a pretty deprived East London borough at the time - but certainly my overriding experience was the one borne out by the statistics, that anyone who wants to get support or encouragement bf has to push through a wall of indifference and discouragement from pretty much everyone before finding the specialist services (mostly volunteer-run) who actually want you to be able to achieve your feeding goals.

@ScarMatty I definitely find the subject emotive because every BF mum I has spoke to thinks formula feeding is 'easy' when it's not I think I carried on breastfeeding as I thought formula feeding was such hard work. Cleaning and sterilizing, making up feeds, making sure you have enough with you when you are out. I hate to admit it but I think it all seemed so much easier to breastfeed that I was never tempted to bottle feed, particularly with winter babies and no central heating. So take it from me there is definitely one breastfeeder, well former breastfeeder, who commends you on your work ethic and organisational skills, mine would probably have starved on a day out if they had to rely on my planning skills.

Obviously not everyone finds breastfeeding easy, my GP did tell me that if I was a cow I'd be a prize winner which isn't one of the greatest compliments I've ever received, but for me I had loads of milk and babies who seemed to know what to do. I thought I'd have problems with inverted nipples but it was fine.

I hope it is OK to say well done you on doing the best for your baby which is all that matters.

Perpetually: There are plenty of posters who quite clearly infer that breastfeeding is very hard but they got through it. This suggests that anyone could if they tried hard enough and that is where 'pride' starts to come in. That is not true. As per my previous post, the definition of hard is subjective. How do you know your experience was 'hard' compared to anyone else's.<

Does it suggest this though? Where, how? Because unless its mentioned specifically, why is it a comment on anyone else? Are you actually saying nobody can ever say any experience they have ever had is hard because someone else might have had a harder one? You could apply that to anything and never use some words again because you can't ask everyone in the world for context. You're actually making no sense whatsoever. Total nonsense.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken

It would have been.

It would've stopped my DH having to drive to Tesco in the middle of the night because DS drank a surprisingly large amount of milk and we ran out.
It would've stopped buying over 50 bottles to find one that DS liked.
It would've stopped the stress of trying 3 different formulas because he wouldn't stop being stick.
It would've stopped getting out of a cold bed in the middle of the night multiple times to warm milk.
It would've stopped the hunting for medication when DS was poorly when breast milk would've made it better.
It would've stopped the judgemental looks from healthcare professionals.

So yes, for me and lots of people I know, it would've been easier.

@Givemlala

Why should society reward them with praise and kudos for doing something completely run-of-the-mill?

Well the vast majority of people don't BF, so it's not run of the mill is it.

That's a very western/developed world centric view. In developing countries, poorer mothers breastfeed longer. In developed countries, richer mothers breastfeed longer.