To think specialist schools can't always offer more than mainstream?

[BKCRMP]

My DD is in the naming schools stage of her EHCP. Mine of the specialist schools are particularily appropriate. Not ASD enough for the ASD schools, the SEMH schools not appropriate, doesn't have a learning disability for the generic schools. Wouldn't receive 1-1 within specialist. Would be expected to follow the class within specialist.

Or she can stay in mainstream with her dedicated 1-1 who can entirely differentiate her learning. Can keep her safe. OT and SALT support provided within school. She actually seems to be able to receive the more individualized, adaptive support that she needs within mainstream.

AIBU that specialists can't always provide more and for some children mainstream can actually give them more?

I think you are right. However it all comes down to how inclusive the mainstream school is and the willingness of the staff there.

Also on the 1:1, what if she leaves?
I can imagine your dd is receiving quite a bespoke eduction at present within mainstream but unless she's carrying on at same school the issue is, can this continue.

Her mainstream is very inclusive. I can't find a single specialist within 90 minutes that can actually give her the more individual and adaptable support that she needs in an equally inclusive, welcoming environment. I feel like everyone is saying she needs specialist but they can give her less than her school can

School have worked on her having 3 or 4 suitable adults to be 1-1 if needed (or when she needs 2-1)

YANBU.

It completely depends on the child, school, culture, resources available, and heaps of other factors and a one-size-fits-all approach to SEN benefits no-one.

I suppose it depends on her specific needs. If they can be met, and she is happy in mainstream then best to keep her there. I've moved mine to special schools because they couldn't cope in mainstream primary, mainly due to the class sizes, so a special school with 8-10 in a class works better than mainstream with 30+

If her needs can be met in mainstream then she should stay. My son did mainstream for primary but for secondary the gap between him and his peers had grown too large so he moved to a moderate learning disability school and it was the right choice for him. If your daughter can access GCSE course then I’d stick with mainstream unless you have issues with social groups.

Depends on the school and primarly how "helpful" the heads are. Some dont want echp kids in their school so will make it tricky to keep them there.( personal experience of both myself and others at various schools) Others can be brilliant and really pull their resources together to offer something amazing. As the child grows needs change and school may not see how they can help furthur and may suggest something more suited. Saying specialist school offer similar to mainstream is off the mark in my opinion, my son has been in both, and after 3 years of being put back in mainstream (post 16) he is finally going back to a specialist provison. Im pleased however that you feel your school is able to manage your childs needs and i guess your dd is happy there and ultimately that is all you an ask for.

She is entering year 1 and has struggled to cope. The specialists that are suggesting they can meet need are schools with a high level of challenging behaviour which we all agree she will cope even less with. Her mainstream have been amazing with her but it's taking huge amounts of resources and I've been told they would be within their rights to say they can no longer meet need but they also agree that there is nowhere else really suitable for her. They've said they won't put her in the position of being put somewhere worse but essentially her EHCP is written that she goes to school, she is only expected to do work when she feels up to it. She has to be able to leave the classroom whenever which means she will likely never be in it. She did two days in her classroom from may to July. She absolutely can't follow adult led tasks/demand avoidant, everything she does is because she wants to so if they can get her to want to do something then she's great but if not she won't.

But there's nowhere else for her to go that can give her more than what she's receiving and I resent the idea of moving her to somewhere less ideal.

Shes still very young and still getting used to school routine and managing her expections and schools will be tricky for a while yet. She sounds just like my son was at the age. If there are o suitable schools available i would try for another year in mainstream as long they guarantee that 1 on 1 support. But re asses with school in 6 months and maybe go and have a look at some of the other provisions just in case.

Your description doesn’t really sound as though she’s managing well in the mainstream school though.

From your description I wouldn't say she is managing well in mainstream. How is her relationship with her peers?

Her mainstream have been amazing with her but it's taking huge amounts of resources and I've been told they would be within their rights to say they can no longer meet need but they also agree that there is nowhere else really suitable for her.

Were you told this by the school or by the LEA? It's true that they can refuse if they can't actually meet her needs, but not that they're within their rights to say that if it's not true.

And whether a school can meet her needs shouldn't be based on whether there are any alternative settings available- either they can meet her needs (without impairing their ability to deliver an efficient education to other children, etc) or they can't. The fact they seem to be dithering and insinuating that they might be able to meet her needs if no-one else can suggests to me that they're not going about the consultation in the right way.

Also, the fact you're asking this on here gives me the impression that you've said "this is the school we want to name", the school hasn't said no but somehow the decision seems to have been pushed back onto you to change your mind so they don't have to properly consider your request.

Is it that the school is urging you to explore other options before they confirm whether they can accommodate her or is the LEA just asking you to name some alternative options for them to consult with in the meantime while you wait for the chosen school's response (which would be sensible to avoid putting all your eggs in one basket)?

DS was very similar at that age and DH and I were convinced he'd need specialist provision. Fast forward to today and he's about to enter y11 at a fantastic mainstream secondary with occasional TA support and access to a Learning Support unit (mostly at breaktimes). The specialist schools near us are more geared towards learning difficulties, and there's not really anywhere that would have been a good fit for him. As long as school are providing the support she needs, I'd certainly suggest seeing how she goes for the next year or so.

Doesn't sound like shes integrated and reaching potential in mainstream. I would move her, a special school will create the curriculum around her.

Its very child dependent and very school dependent. Mainstreams vary hugely as do special schools. Many children basically have no suitable placement at all. Whole counties with no ASD provision and children with no placement.
It doesnt sound much of a school experience sat in a corridor with a 1:1 but you know if your child is benefiting from being there. We dont! If the TAs get demand avoidance and get her to do stuff thats really good. You also know what the specisl school in offer is like..
I'd also say that you can have 1:1 in a special school too if thats what your child needs to access education. My child does. So dont be put off by that.

Is she accessing the curriculum appropriate to her needs?
If she’s not improving in her attainment then it’s not worth continuing at mainstream.
A 1:1 will only support her, the teacher needs to differentiate her curriculum.
Is that happening?

I’ve got kids with Sen. One in mainstream and one in specialist. The one in mainstream has a dedicated 1:1. However that 1:1 differentiates her work whereas I feel it should be done by her teacher.

Specialist I feel gets the opportunity to include life skills and can revisit parts of the curriculum and so it’s a bit more flexible whereas mainstream is a bit more rigid.

It’s very dependent on schools and on your child. My eldest couldn’t go to our local Sen schools as they cater for complex needs and she wouldn’t have a peer group. Mainstream isn’t quite right for her but she does the work, she has friends and we don’t really have any other options.

Sometimes it can be hard to see your child in a specialist setting. We all have an idea of what we want for our children and when seeing the variety of need in a specialist school it can be difficult to imagine our children there. I’m not saying that’s the case with your child but sometimes it can be hard accepting a mainstream environment isn’t the best.

Once into Year 1 you will have a better idea. I think once she’s done a year there you’ll see whether mainstream suits.

@treeeeemendous She doesn't have any relationships with peers. If she tolerates being near them then she will interact very much based on controlling them for her needs rather than for social purposes.

@LonginesPrime Her school have said to make sure we look at what options there are. I think from what they've said to me they worry the LA will push her into an even less suitable school but realistically she's absolutely highest level of support they can give. She's been 1-1 at all times for months and often 2-1 and occasionally 3-1.

@DanielRicciardosSmile it's similar here that there isn't really anywhere that is a good fit. We don't think she has a learning difficulty just big communication ones. Nothing really fits.

Wouldn't receive 1-1 within specialist. Would be expected to follow the class within specialist.

She wouldn't need 1:1 in the right specialist setting and would be able to become part of a class. Surely this is what you want so she can learn coping strategies for external demands and develop her social skills? Only ever being expected to cope with doing what she feels like is a terribly low expectation and unlikely to lead to a good long term outcome for your DD.

If shes not actually in class or doing any adult led activities I think a specialist school would ge with a shot.

Do the school said they can meet her needs with 1:1? If she can leave the classroom then where does she go? Will she have peer interaction?

Have you looked at private schools? Echp can be used there is only suitable environment.

Does your dd sometimes need 2:1 support? Our youngest did a year in mainstream which was a bloody nightmare. They didn’t want him at all. He’s very demand avoidant and rigid. He doesn’t want to do what he doesn’t want to do.

She’s in early years now? So has missed quite a bit of early years due to Covid and lockdown? I think give it another year in mainstream and reassess.

Our specialist school are lovely. They’re much more inclusive. My son is learning life skills and he’s very much part of the school.

Have you had the opportunity to visit all specialist provisions? If in early years your dd isn’t engaging with her peers and the work and needing much higher levels sometimes than 1:1 it sounds maybe specialist could benefit her. Sadly there’s a lack of asd provision and most specialist schools cater for a variety of disabilities but my son was placed in classes with other children like him.